Honestly, it just doesn't seem like it would work all that well. I would much prefer a gun that fired standard projectiles than a staff shaped like a gun. :shrug:

I'm just trying to fit this idea into the world of TES without going all the way towards creating a gun which most TES fans would object to.

I've also suggested this before, but I'll say it again with some added notes.

I think there should be holidays in the game on specific dates, related to the Aedra and Daedra, complete with books describing the holidays in more depth and people preparing to celebrate before the holiday and saying things related to it. This idea would tie in well with another suggestion someone mentioned a couple of threads ago about enchanting Daedric artifacts or creating them from base materials, his idea went something to the effect that on certain dates and at certain times of the year the creation of such artifacts and the effects you get and the power of such creations would be directly affected and that at different times of the year different planes of Oblivion and the lands of the Aedra would be called upon. I also believe (also coming from his comments) that the different planes of Oblivion/Aedraville should have different Daedric or Aedric weapons and clothing. In Oblivion I visited several different planes of Oblivion, yes most of it was Dagon's realm, but there were the few occasions, on the mages guild quest I think it was and in the Shivering Isles, that the plane of Oblivion was different to Dagon's hell. I'd also like to be able to visit each Daedric realm to see the differences, and to visit some of the Aedric realms.

Stephen.

You just answered your own question.

That is, if that post WAS a question.

I just find this to be the most pragmatic solution to stopping the spam. We put the gun in, see if people like it, if they don't, we keep it as just one, if they do, we make many many guns for TES VI! Unless we do that, we'll never know which would have been better!

I was pretty much just speculating out loud. A gun of Sload origins would be great, we need a race that is at least somewhat as focused on technology as the Dwemer were.

I'd love to see the return of holidays. It was one of the nice touches in Daggerfall that really gave some life to the game world.

yeah, definitely, a festival of some sorts.

Maybe the Dwemer DID make a gun: we just haven't found it, as they were just developing them when they disappeared. Perhaps Yagrum Bagarn, the last Dwemer, returns for TESV and helps us with this? It'd be nice to give the ol' dude a graphical face-lift and put him in the new game, say, by arrival from a boat or something. You give him a broken, gun-looking thing of obviously Dwemer origin, and he fixes it up for you, but doesn't know just exactly what it's supposed to do. Obviously it's supposed to shoot projectiles, but the means through which remain a mystery to him. Then, an alchemist can get involved to make the explosive propellant that the firearm uses, and you can do fetch quests for him. Eventually, he and Yagrum work together to make some ammunition, which you can then buy from the alchemist. TA-DA! I don't know much lore: does that conflict with anything else we know, ANYWHERE?

I've always found the magic argument to be interesting. On the one hand, in OB you could easily learn many... competent spells without a chance of failure. In MW, there was a chance of failure for the spells. Depending on what magic system happens in TESV, we could have different perspectives on magic. Given the unstable conditions of the Empire without an Emporor, perhaps opportunistic warlords will arise. If this is true, they need to build great armies quickly. Swords take some time to master to a degree of competence. Bows actually similarly require training, especially the armor piercing longbow. If magic is OB easy, then the failure rate isn't an inhibition. A hundred people casting 'fireball' is four times as powerful as the greatest spell available in OB. In MW, there's a chance of failure that's significant for young apprentices of magic. A peasant rebellion will get nowhere with an army of unarmed men muttering under their collective breath and wandering around. Guns could fill a niche that's only recently become existent in such a fashion.

Well, considering most of Morrowind was destroyed in the novel, I doubt he was able to escape in time. Vvardenfell was completely destroyed, so unless he moved, he wouldn't have survived.

The Sload spend in the range of "most to all" of their lives underwater; it doesn't seem like the most likely civilization to make a gun. Certainly not the standard gunpowder-based type. They're mostly focused on necromancy anyway, as I understand.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the gun argument is based entirely on genre preference. People keep arguing how "likely" it is someone might have invented one by now, how feasible it is/isn't in a magical world, etcetera, and it doesn't matter at all. The basic definition of Fantasy as a genre is the focus on the supernatural as a plot element. Focus on technology gets you Science Fiction. If you blur them, you get new genres like Steampunk. People who automatically oppose guns do so because they prefer TES to be represented by the Fantasy genre. It's an argument of opinion, which is meaningless, and all this fluff about why they technically may or may not exist is largely irrelevant.

Let me put it this way. You could take Morrowind, or Oblivion, and make them a sci-fi game without changing any gameplay elements. Instead of buying and casting a levitation spell, buy and activate a jetpack. Oblivion's staves become energy guns; that's how they already work. Turn swords into lightsabrey laser-blades, fields into some dusty alien world, etc. If you changed it into a sci-fi setting pre-release, I guarantee people would have developed different opinions on why the game is good or bad, despite the gameplay being literally exactly the same. People are going to dislike the concept of adding guns no matter how you do it. They're not right or wrong, they just prefer a certain genre.

Though they do have "advanced" technology, more advanced than the races that spend their entire lives on land. If any living race could develop a gun, I'd lean towards the Sload.



That's a good point, I suppose. Though I still think, after 4 Eras, it's time for some sort of technological advancement, even if it's only a tiny bit. A prototype gun would serve well to show that Nirn has evolving technology, and isn't just another fantasy universe that stays the same forever.

Supposing there was a power vacuum in the world, all the factions and guilds in the game are potential empire starters, why not have the main quest be that you simply do all the guild and faction quests and choose which faction and guild out of all the 50(?) guilds and factions there are to choose from, depending which ones you've joined and which you've been excluded from by joining others, to be the leading faction and you become the emperor, after all, you've helped your set of guilds become the leading powers and after that it's freeplay but you've pretty much completed everything.

Stephen.

OK, OK, I concede. But lore-wise, it'd have to fit within the established rules if the added it this late in the games.

BTW, I'll admit I enjoy games that blur the lines a ton. That's the thing that kept me hooked on Fable 2, it was in the sweet-spot between Steampunk and Fantasy that I really, REALLY liked. Same with Lost Odyssey, except it was leaning more toward steampunk.

Oh, and before being named Emperor you'd have to convince one of the Aedra or Daedra, if not all the Aedra or all the Daedra, to make a deal with you and sign your pact for emperor-hood in blood and fire just like the original Tiber Septim did.

And, you'd be able to choose between the Aedra and Daedra, so that the world turned out a bit differently whichever way you went, and then it's still free play.

Stephen.

A player as the [censored] emperor?



SIGN ME THE HELL UP. And there BETTER be significant perks this time, not like annoying ol' godhood.

And now that the gun argument has once again been settled, I'd like to bring up ways to change the skill/class system.

First of all, I want to bring back the major/minor/miscellaneous system from Morrowind. On top of that, I'd like to add one more skill classification, let's call it 'specialization', which would be the one skill that your character really focuses on first and foremost. I'm thinking that each character would be able to have 3 majors, 4 minors, 1 specialization, and the rest are miscellaneous. In terms of what level these skills would start at, I would go with miscellaneous skills starting at 1, minors at 20, majors at 30, and the specialization at 40.

Next, I think it would be interesting if skills had different caps based on being major/minor/whatever. I would go with majors capping at 100, minors at 75, miscellaneous skills at 50, and specializations get to go as high as 125, with there being really powerful perks/spells available only to those that choose to specialize in that skills. Doing this makes your choice of skills really matter, as you can't just ignore your major skills if you really want to progress. This method would also keep the major/minor system relevant if they chose to go with a level-less system in TESV, where its relevance would otherwise be reduced by that sort of change.

Oh yeah, and the caps on both stats and skills ought to take into account the bonuses that individual races get.

Can someone explain to me the obsession with ADDING limits to skills that haven't existed previously?
Every single suggestion or rule system thread has people wanting to make it impossible for EVERYONE to max out all skills.

What I don't get is why a limitation that didn't exist in Daggerfall or Morrowind or Oblivion is somehow "suited" for a genre that's supposed to be "do whatever you want, be who you want."

I could just shoot myself in the foot, less painfull you see... I'd rather see less limitation in this regard, if anything make the specialization cap 250 major 200 minor 150 and misc 100.

No cap on levels, I hated getting to level 20 in Fallout3 and having to stop and re-do my character because I couldn't get all the skills and perks I wanted.

Stephen.

I would love to see skills in TESV, like the skills in Fallout 3. For example, there could be a skill that turns you into a vampire, so you don't have to go out and catch the disease, there could be skills to become a necromancer, where you can collect body parts and reanimate them, like how you can build a weapon in Fallout 3, etc etc. Obviously, with no level cap you would have to only be able to learn a skill every 5 or 10 levels.

I think rather than making everyone a specialist in something, this would work best as an advantage/background trait sort of thing, in the hopes that they bring those back. A character might choose to become a specialist in a skill, making it start higher and increase faster, in exchange for maybe lower starts/slower experience in other skills.

In part, because I would like to see the game more to a level-less system. And if they do go level-less, then what would be the point of having to choose skills at all? To make them start out a little higher (which can get irrelevant a couple hours after starting), or that they level up a little faster? Hardly seems worth it. Having it determine the skill caps would make it continue to matter.

Secondly, because I want skill choice to simply matter in general. Aside from leveling (which, perversely enough, was a reason not to use your majors in Oblivion), your choice of skills doesn't really matter. And it should; the type of character you create should actually reflect the type of character you play.

Or in short: choices should have consequences, from what you do in quests, to the guilds you join, to how you create your character. A choice without consequences is ultimately pointless.

what i want to see is arrows having an actually effect not just hitting them and the person continues to charge at you i can understand it if you shoot an orge or some other beast but a human or man like creatures, if you hit them in the legs the would stumble or fall and if you got a direct shot in the face or another place which would kill you id like to see more realism i guess but i still love the games the way they are now.

another thing i want the mage to be improved i want you to feel the power when you obtain it i want a sort of renowned system where as you can be the most powerful mage of all time if you have the skill to obtain it, because the fact that you became arch mage last time which granted you very little power i would like there to be an immense change if you had that position of power next time round i just want to be a proper hero or villian my choice in my world lol.

maybe wands could be included in this oneit would be interesting

See, I don't want it to matter. I was a demigod in one game, and an actual god-god in the other game! By the end you're supposed to be that way. I'd hate it beyond compare if I couldn't be that way at the end.

ThatOneGuy put it best in another thread. Something to the effect that "one of the allures of a TES game is that a character can become anything you want"

If I wanted my character to be a simple typecasting, I'd probably play a JRPG or something. The whole point of the sandbox RPG genre is that you're given a sandbox and told to make your own path. Maybe your Redguard grew up getting all the traditional Warrior training, and his major skills reflect that... but his personal preference is to be a freelance healer. He doesn't have those skills: his upbringing didn't support it. But it still can be his dream. Why should the act of creating this character prevent him from reaching his dreams? We do have, you know, people who play characters to BE the character, and they don't always have the "optimal life history" because the players find them more interesting when they start with no aptitude for what they want to be.

See, for me, the fun isn't having to replay 80% of the game to be able to try two more guild questlines. That's just a waste of my precious time. Now, offering me alternate paths through various sections of the game if my character is female/has this skill above this level/took this choice instead of that? I can live with it, to a point. It's really dependant on the branching factor then. Heck, "Whodunit?" is the second best quest in Oblivion. Why? because there's something like 120 ways to play it out, plus at least one optional subplot that allows for more variations. So I typically finish that quest at least twice before I move on, because it is interesting to watch the suspicions shift. But playing through a whole game because I didn't choose enough magic skills as major to qualify for the Mage's Guild is pretty much a "not buying this game until mods fix what never should have been done" territory.

About the whole leveling issue i'd still suggest my fluent level caps idea where reaching a "competent" level in all skills is possible, if very time consuming, but you can only reach "Professional" or even "Master" in a few skills simply because those are leveled BEYOND their natural limit. This would translate to every skill can be at 100 but 120 - 150 is true mastery. And the skills over 100 also have to trained on as they can drop again so they not only need great dedication to get up but to KEEP up.

EDIT: Oh and on the "play again ty try guild X" thing, it should be possible to also worm your way into certain factions. But aside that the whole sotryline and quest lines in factions should not all be one streigt line from beginning to end but actually branch off and have several smaller quest chains. THAT would give actual replay value as you don't just replay one faction you can play a completely different storyline.

In oblivion you got perks when you reached a certain level. It was a neat idea, but I would like that to be something that just gradually builds up, so that it isn't just something you learn just like that, but something you have a chance to do, and a higher chance the closer you get to that particular level, until it simply becomes 100% and works like it did in oblivion, only no it isn't some kind of of thing that you just suddenly is able to do.