Groovy. Things like that should be easy to impliment since it's not as if you need great graphics and animations to have various books of differing languages. These kinds of ideas will add a tremendous amount of depth to the gameplay. The implimentation is important, however. Rather than just having one quest utilize a translation of runes, books, etc... it should be something found in many different caves and dungeons scattered around the land so that people who are interested in that sort of game play can have more of it. In Oblivion they had all these different traps, and puzzles that were almost never used. After the starter dungeon how many trip wires and falling logs and things of that ilk did you really find? They were there but not very proliferated. It was gimicky because they didn't really have much of a profound affect.

The team that did the Grey Fox quests were virtually one of the only groups that used their imagination, and the potential of Oblivion to the fullest. The springing shoes (taken from an english folk-tale), the arrow key, the floor plates, the booby traps, etc... why weren't more dungeons like that? So if we have textual translations lets not have it just in this one place as a show-off gimick, but rather have it built into some side quests and random dungeons.

In Ultima 8 there were mushrooms, when you ate them the world would become multicoloured. In Fable when you got drunk the world would swim and you would audibly hear changes to the sound in the game. I've always loved these sorts of things, little tiny effects that add some realism to the game. I'd like something like this to be added for skooma and some mushrooms, I'd also like to recieve a free bottle of skooma when I buy my TESV copy.

Stephen.

I just thought of something. I know you are all going to crucify me over it, so I'll be playing MW if anyone asks where I am.

I thought that the gunplay in Fable 2 was, eh... kinda fun, actually. Decapitation with a well placed musket-ball never gets old. BGS has so far made games that are better than Fable in every concievable way possible-- don't deny it. Search your heart, you know it to be true! So I wondered if perhaps... BGS could at least make a weapon template for guns for modders that are interested? I remember that for MW most guns were basically retextures of the crossbow that worked very wankily (read: not like actual guns at all). The good quality ones took some time to make, from what I recall. Couldn't they just make a basic weapon type that functions as a gun and doesn't appear in the game?

...And I thought of something else. Why not have one single gun in the entire game? Most people say that fast travel is only an option in OB. By that logic, having one gun in the game is an option. I find that if guns where in chests and the such, it'd be pervasive. I persoanlly prefer crossbows to firearms, but GOD do these threads get tiresome. And in TES VI it'll be the same thing. No more fighting, everyone's happy. And yes, the gun would level with you inexplicably, because dammit otherwise people will whine it's not balanced.

...Cue obligatory fighting over this...

Look, I really don't care if guns are added or not added to TES. If they are, yay, more weapons to choose from. If they aren't, yay, a weapon I wasn't gonna use isn't added and the game takes up less memory (marginally, granted, but... )


Please don't kill me.

EDIT: If this is against the rules or something... say so and I'll delete it.

Tropes' Leveling System Suggestion

Now, currently you raise your major skills to level up, but raising any skill gets you a multiplier on its governing attribute. Okay. we can start from there. So as it stands, you level Long Blade and Alchemy from your major skills, but also raise athletics and speechcraft from your minor skills. Therefore, you skip out on a multiplier. So here's a way to improve it.

You first remove a magic bar. The three bars would become Health, Short-term fatigue and long-term fatigue. Short-term fatigue functions like Morrowind fatigue. Long-term fatigue goes down at a very slow rate, so that if you do nothing to slow the decrease it will empty out in 24 game hours at low levels. When it gets low, short-term fatigue lowers faster, you do less damage/ take more damage, etc. eating, sleeping, potions, waiting, sitting and standing still increase short-term fatigue, like Morrowind, but only sleeping, potions and eating restore long-term fatigue. Also, magic takes out of short-term fatigue, then if that empties long-term fatigue, and if that empties, health. This is intrinsically linked to my new magic system which will be stated later.

You next go back to Daggerfall, three primary, five major and ten minor skills, with the rest miscellaneous. As you level any of those skills, the attributes get a little closer to leveling up, each going up more or less based on the ranking of the skill, generally like so:

Primary: 1/3rd Attribute increase
Major: 1/5th '' increase
Minor: 1/10th '' increase
Miscellaneous: '' 0 increase

(I'm not sure how the numbers actually add up, but you get the idea)

Then, upon leveling up you pick a bonus to health, short-term fatigue or long-term fatigue. This also helps to prevent and/or balance jack-of-all-trades-ing because unless you specialize in, say, combat skills almost exclusively you will not max out the governing attributes. Of course, some quests may help to increase skills and attributes, as well as, part 3, perks.

Perks will work very differently from Oblivion, but still recognizable. each perk tree has five types, and each type has five levels. Again going with long blade, instead of maxing it out and getting every perk, you can max it out and have four basic perks, up to level four of a single perk, or some combination. Of course, some quest rewards for certain characters will be skill perks. So, if you specialize in a paralyzing stab (the forward power attack perk in Oblivion for blades), the level 1 perk would be maybe a 10% chance of paralyzing, then 25, then 50, then 75. If you tank that perk and then do a quest with a bonus of a long blade perk reward, then you can get the max level of that perk, giving you a 90% chance of paralyzing an opponent when you successfully land the attack. This adds replayability and further customizability to the characters.

Tropes' Magic System Suggestion

As above, the removal of a magic bar and replacement with a dual fatigue system is a major factor in my magic system idea. It may seem odd at first, but is a lot more organic and intuitive, as well as balanced.

Now, let's use the basic destruction spell "fireball." as a template. You tap the spell button, whether on a keyboard or controller, and you use a weaker version of the spell. In this case, just a few sparks. More a distraction or irritant than an attack unless surrounded by very easily flammable objects. Press the button firmly for a second, and you have the basic, listed spell effect. In this case, a weak fireball good for lighting up rats and small dogs but little else. Both of these eat a small chunk out of your fatigue bar. Hold the button, and you begin to charge the spell. While charging, you are completely vulnerable, and the longer you charge, the more fatigue is used. if the final casting of the spell would empty your fatigue bar, it will begin to take from your long-term fatigue. If that is used up, your health. If you decide the cost is too high, there would be a cancellation button.

I know what you're all thinking, "Tropes, if you can charge any spell without a maximum cap, why not tank your endurance and health and only use low-level spells?" Well, first, like I said you are vulnerable while charging. Leveling the magic skill and attribute that governs it, in this case Destruction and Willpower (?) also makes it charge to higher levels at a lower fatigue cost, and faster. Then there are more advanced spells, spells that, if cast by a novice, would almost certainly kill the caster. At higher levels of Destruction, the cost becomes less so you do the same system. For a minimal fatigue cost, you tap the button to get an equivalent of the average-charged fireball, press for a large flame burst, and hold for destruction on a mythic scale. This way, we have a good scale for all three play styles. Combat has the easiest time starting, but the least rewards in the end. Stealth is somewhat harder, but has a mid-level payoff when you've leveled, and low-level mages are all but useless, while higher-leveled ones, the players and characters tenacious enough to survive being a level-1 mage, are quite simply equal to the gods.

The thing is though, how would a gun logically fit into the TES universe? The most advanced race (in terms of technology), the Dwemer, disappeared some time ago, and they never made guns. The only way I could see it fitting is if there was a mad scientist somewhere in TESV, who spend his life tinkering with Dwemer artifacts to create the world's first gun. The player could go on quests related to it, like finding parts for the scientist, but they could never actually receive or use the gun unless they stole it. So the player would never use a gun unless they wanted to.

They could also make a gun of Sload origins, as they're pretty advanced, considering they have airships. It could serve as an artifact from Thras, and it would serve it further the mystique of the place. It would make the player think that Thras must be really advanced and interesting, if they can make guns, that is.

Well canons have been mentioned in at least one in game book so...
Though for the arguments sake a canon does not equal a gun. There's a big step between them.

But arguing there is pretty useless anyway as you'll get the usual "blah blah doesn't fit", "blah blah magic", "blah blah unbalanced", "blah blah DO NOT WANT" almost instantly not even ALLOWING a constructive discussion.

The cannons were mentioned in a joke book in Daggerfall. Lots of concepts present in Daggerfall were summarily changed or removed entirely after Daggerfall.
I say again, if cannons are present, then why do the Redguards fire arrows at the Ansu-Gurleht from the deck of their ship instead of cannonballs?

Or for that matter, why is it that no military installation displayed in any game or book since then sports cannons or projectile weaponry consistent with guns?

And they're only mentioned in a single joke:



http://www.imperial-library.info/dfbooks/b070_jokes.shtml

If cannons were not mentioned or seen anywhere else in any other game, it's possible that what the writer was referring to aren't even the cannons we're thinking of. A "cannon" in the ES world could be something completely different for all we know.

Because Lord of the Rings didn't have canons.



My guess is they DID mean actual canons and just never thought that line may come back to bite them one day, now it does.

Heh. That argument would have more merit, save that both Morrowind and Redguard have no trace of cannons, and Morrowind and Redguard are far from LotR.

I have no problem with certain kinds of crude firearms being in TES. There isn't a huge leap in logic from alchemy to gunpowder. We know now that in ancient China there were rockets and crude guns. They have even found very crude firearms from the earliest exploration/settlement days in the United States (1500's). Basically iron pipes with a fuse-hole. I don't believe people want to see modern rifles and artilery, but rather some kind of musket or blunderbus that may have potential for dealing good damage, but also a great deal of danger to the user. I know that in D&D 2nd Edition, muskets and blunderbus's were allowed (at the DM's discretion), but one had to first roll to see if the gun exploded in your characters face, and then if it didn't, roll for hit and roll for damage. Perhaps in TES if one is able to actually find or have made a working firearm, it could be very unstable. This would add some nice role-playing, and excitement. Also, they could be very rare, or even having one could be the result of a quest. I know I wouldn't want entire regiments having them.

I like role-playing games because of the adventure element, not because I want to have to do anoying nitpicking tasks like eating, drinking, and taking a piss in a bush every 5 minutes just to ensure my character stays alive. Some people like realism, and have characters that rarely - if ever, enter combat, whilst some of us like making solo raging adventurers and enjoy the storytelling and adventure side of questing more than the realism.

To that end, I guess you'll say "Why not play an adventure game and not an RPG?", and it's simply because in an RPG like Oblivion I can make any kind of character I want, travel wherever I want, kill whatever I want, be whoever I want and in general do whatever I want. Imposing strict realism rules seriously constricts players. If they were in place, people who don't like them would not be able to avoid them. If they weren't in place, people who do like them could implement themself, through imagination or mods. Whatever works.

Done right, having a gun in TES can work just fine. But no matter what, there will be people who will complain about guns in TES, even if it's a single gun that rarely works. I think that if there is a gun in TESV, it should be extremely primitive and not the least bit practical. Once people accept that there really is a gun in a TES game, who knows, maybe in TESVI they could add a gun that's actually practical. Nothing like modern weaponry, but a decent gun that could actually be used in combat.

I hate that "just go and play X" argument because it takes ONE SINGLE ASPECT and blows it out of propotion. And all the "Pure RPG" fanatics, what is it about tedious level grinding, having to plan your skills WAY ahead instead of just playing, artificial limitations and penalties... As mentioned before the whole thing with wanting artificial penalties instead of realism towards certain fields is because you can AVOID them, a realistic limitation does that indiscriminately.

Honestly, it's not the "realism" aspect that I like about eating/drinking, but the adventure aspect. Otherwise, what's the difference between being in the middle of a desert/jungle and being in the middle of a city? Now, going to the bathroom, marriage, that's all pointless adventure wise.

I don't think they will ever make it mandatory, though.

While things that make it easier for modders are nice and all, it's a tricky area to have them spend time on stuff that's not even part of the game. There's no clear line between "convenient" and "waste of time."


That's not realism and nobody has ever suggested it, so I guess you don't need to worry.

I can find compromise in many types of realism. You are exagerating, however, with your comment about pissing in a bush every 5 minutes, obviously nobody is suggesting that.

If the world was enlarged, and the time scale slowed a bit, eating and resting periodically would make sense, and be a way to role-play. Nobody is saying that a player must harvest grain, grind it, bake it into bread, and then manually eat it (although you could do that in Ultima so I'd say it'd be a cool addition to TES), but an auto-eat toggle and simply needing to have food in your pack would be a compromise. For those of us who like the prospect of harvesting and collecting food items, hunting for meat, etc... we could do that. You on the other hand could stop by a provisioner next door to the armorer or alchemist, places I presume you'd be visiting anyway, and get your dry rations.

Try to remember that adding some form of eating, and resting is not a crazy, out of left-field idea. Many CRPG's required some form of it in order to replenish health, stamina and magic when I started playing games (late 80's / early 90's).

First, about guns, I think there should be some sort of firearm, but not necessarily a 'gun', why don't we have the mages invent something that looks like a gun, may even be held like a gun, but is really a magic staff that fires off bolts of wood (like splinters) and flame?



Secondly, I have played games where you do get hungry and you do experience cold and heat damage, this works very well on occasions and very badly on other occasions. I, for one, enjoy the fact that my character gets hungry over time, I don't necessarily agree that you should die if you don't eat, it's a game and you don't want to be dying every few hours because you forgot to eat, but I believe not eating should heavily fatigue you to the point where you pass out. I also like heat and cold damage to some extent because it adds to the realism, and I'll be carrying around a set of fur clothes just in case I have to go somewhere freezing, and I'll remove all but the clothes on my back (no armour) if it gets hot, it might be annoying to have to do this sometimes but I think about real life, if it's cold I'll put on warmer clothes, if it's hot I'll take off what I don't need (unless I'm in public).

Which reminds me! I remember that being naked in Morrowind, npc's would always have something to say about it. I'd like that to return, and on top of that I'd like npc's to comment as to how I am dressed, if I'm wearing an orcish suit of armour I'd like them to say something like 'you're looking ready for war' and if I'm wearing a nice robe 'you're one of those rich people aren't you?' or 'did you just get out of bed?'... etc. etc. etc...

So, why have food in the game at all unless you need to eat it? Food shouldn't be an alchemical ingredient, ingredients should be (things like ginseng, garlic, mandrake, onions, etc) but food such as bread, carrots, pears, apples and such should just go towards your stomach...

Stephen.

This way, people can 'upgrade' their magic staff gun thingy so it does different types of damage, even paralyzing opponents, exploding tipped 'bullets', Ice damage, etc.

Also, I would like the people I hit with this thing, or with any weapon as a matter of fact, to react to damage where they are hit, if I shoot them in the leg they grab their leg, if I hit them in the stomach they will clench their stomach and bend over a bit, same with arm neck face etc.

Stephen.

The time scale can be slowed via the console. Also that does sound like a good compromise. If you could half-ass your way through the realism elements in the way you mentioned I wouldn't be against adding them.

You mean exactly like the staffs that are already in game?


Thing is, in a world where magic is the primary choice for dealing with an opponent at range guns would likely not be developed. Magic fills in all the gaps that guns were developed to fill. A fireball can bring down an opponent before they can close distance, a powerful earth based spell can breach a castle wall just like a cannon. In Nirn, there's no niche to fill and with even a common person capable of learning a simple fireball spell or using an ice blast spell, no one will have given it a thought.


Even the old bow and arrow proves more efficent, as you can retrieve arrows from your targets corpse and with the effectiveness of magic, nothing more advanced than a crossbow has ever been considered.

Ok, my idea about the magic 'gun' thing sounds like a crossbow, but I'm thinking this thing will be a lot more powerful than a crossbow.

I'd like to be able to create spells with instant damage over the 100 limit that was imposed on us in Oblivion. Sending off a damage health or fireball etc that I've created, at an ogre, requires at least 2 hits and uses a rediculous amount of mana. I like 'Tropes suggestions concerning this, remove the mana bar and replace it with long term fatigue and a charging system for more powerful spells. In fact, 'Tropes suggestions were pretty brilliant IMHO.

Also, I've said this before, but please bring back levitation!

Stephen.

Sorry about the repeat post, but concerning levitation, why not have a city in the sky? and maybe some random sky islands and even a sky dungon?

Considering most people want it in 'Sky'rim...

Stephen.

But what's the point of making a gun-shaped staff when you already have perfectly fine staff-shaped-staves? You're basically proposing changing the shape of staves across Tamriel, just so they look more like guns, which don't even exist in the ES universe.

No, I'm proposing creating one staff that looks like a gun and leaving all the rest as they are. This would be a staff specifically designed for targeting, maybe even a zoom function built in magically. Also, it is just what the modders would be looking for.

Also, the staff can be recharged, or recharge over time, so you don't need ammo, and you can simply enchant it repeatedly with different effects or toggle between them.

Stephen.