TES V Ideas and Suggestions # 143, : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sun May 01, 2011 11:08 pm

For weapons, it'd be nice to have a balance between weapons that are "easily used" and ones that "do a crapload of damage". While it would be more essential if one went back to Morrowind combat (for the love of all that's holy, let's not!), the idea that weapons have pseudo-requirements isn't a bad idea.

For example, a club might only need 13 strength to use effectively, while a daedric mace wants 77 to get the maximum swing speed out of it. But you can use it at 1 strength, if you so choose. So basically, using a high damage weapon gives a harder hit at any level, but because of the slow swing, the AI dodges more often. A weak weapon swings pretty fast, but does little damage. It's better than returning to the instadodge days, and actually gives modders the resources to make some "neat things".

However, I NEVER want TES to implement a hard requirement system for weapons or armor. But adding stat-based drawbacks could provide interesting gameplay, as upgrading some parts of armor and not others becomes a viable and perhaps vital means to survive and thrive.

» Sun May 01, 2011 3:20 pm

I would like to see a gigantic hammer or mace that took like 5 seconds to lift and swing but crush the enemies and do like 800 points of damage. This would go well if they allowed you to build your character into a huge orc or brainless warrior that would be suited for all of the braun and none of the brains.

It's the fighters guild's secret weapon!

» Mon May 02, 2011 3:11 am

Different fighting styles for H2H, or even the other weapons as well.

» Sun May 01, 2011 2:22 pm

Different fighting styles for H2H, or even the other weapons as well.

I once again suggest http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1022343&view=findpost&p=14801714 as it contains different H2H fighting styles (lethal and non lethal ones too) and your combat style varying depending if you fight normal, offensive and defensive.

» Mon May 02, 2011 12:19 am

My shopping list:

Capes
Fallout 3-style levelling/points distribution system
360 view of character on consoles
Impossible to have all stats maxed/become master of everything on one character
More weapon types
Better dungeons and better loot
Improve vampirism
Jeremy Soule soundtrack
Less generic gameworld
More voice actors
No telepathic guards
Better support for PS3, i.e. make ALL additional content available
Better QA before release

» Sun May 01, 2011 12:45 pm

My shopping list:
Fallout 3-style levelling/points distribution system
Impossible to have all stats maxed/become master of everything on one character

Oh please not these. Both would NECESSITATE modding before I would even buy the game. Half the appeal to TES games is that they aren't EXp-based and you can do what you want when you want to a large degree.

I have no care whatsoever for the console releases. Bethesda can do whatever they'd like with those. But an extra few weeks of QA would be nice.

» Mon May 02, 2011 3:04 am

More focus on non-combat solutions, I would like a questline or guild which focuses on something which doesn't necessarily require combat solution. I'm thinking a diplomatic guild/questline,

example: an aristocratic ruling is creating poor people, help the (insert group name here) get elected.

Or even a traders guild, and help grow an economic empire.

I once again suggest http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1022343&view=findpost&p=14801714 as it contains different H2H fighting styles (lethal and non lethal ones too) and your combat style varying depending if you fight normal, offensive and defensive.

I like it, I had some differences in mind though, but overall it pretty parallel to what I was thinking. I imagine that you start out with just some sort of normal style, and then you're able to learn the styles if you fulfill the basic requirements.

I was actually thinking of something along the lines of combos, simply based on combination's of normal attacks and power attacks, I know a lot of people don't want combos, and that's alright, because I'm not thinking of traditional combos, but more on a system where you assign the style or combination of attacks, to a sequence of attacks that you want to press. That way, even if you've just been trained in the most lethal elite fighting style, you can just assign it to a simple (Attack, attack, attack) combination.

It could also be as you suggest, that when you choose a fighting style, all your attacks change. I definitely like your take on integrating martial arts into it.

» Sun May 01, 2011 10:59 pm

double post

» Sun May 01, 2011 2:35 pm

Yeah I had a good combo system worked out a few pages back

I was watching Game Trailors Bonus Round talking about Project Natal and was trying to think about how attacks, slices, and jabs could be easily put in TES without what happened in Oblivion...

(What I mean is, to do a power attack you held the button down for 3 seconds, and THEN it attacked. and to do a side swipe, or a stab, you would need to hold down the direction keys and do a power attack, but because you were holding down the direction keys, by the time you strike your way off from your target, which made power attacks useless.)

Now how about this:

Hold block (right mouse), hold direction with keys, and then click (not hold), you wouldnt need to hold the direction for very long, (just a split second), as long as the time it takes you to click attack (so you dont go running off in the other direction), that way you can easily string together combinations of attacks, or get around when the NPC blocks, of course this would take a while to get realy good at, as allways, but I think it would be very rewarding for the more combat inclined, and because you need to hold block to do it, you would allways have defence except for when you are attacking (which is how i play anyway). Actually, I think this could also be done to spells too to maybe change the effect of the spell or spell type?

So sort of sumthing like:
Up+A = Stab
Down+A = Slice Up
Left+A = Left Slice
Right + A = Right Slice

And to string it all together you could go: DA, RA, LA, UA, and chain together a realy cool combo

For Spells it could be like: (fire being the element chosen)
U + B = Fire Ball
D + B = Fire Wall
L + B = Fire Brush
R + B = Fire Combust

Maybe as you level up the skill 25%, 50%, 75%, etc you could learn those skills/teqniques.

what do you think of that idea?

Having a simple magic system like that would mean you cut down on your spells ALOT, rather than having a whole list of spells you dont need, you just choose the element you want (maybe bined to a quick key) and cast away.

» Mon May 02, 2011 12:14 am

Dunno, the system feels like button smashing, wich I dont want too much of.

» Sun May 01, 2011 4:02 pm

I would like to see a gigantic hammer or mace that took like 5 seconds to lift and swing but crush the enemies and do like 800 points of damage. This would go well if they allowed you to build your character into a huge orc or brainless warrior that would be suited for all of the braun and none of the brains.

It's the fighters guild's secret weapon!

Wouldn't that be hard to hit someone with? I mean, they have like 5 minutes to get out of the way.
Run to a mountaintop, unleash some kind of meteor swarm, etc.
Eat a snack real quick, hit him with a lightning bolt.
:snoring:

» Mon May 02, 2011 5:00 am

Oh please not these. Both would NECESSITATE modding before I would even buy the game. Half the appeal to TES games is that they aren't EXp-based and you can do what you want when you want to a large degree.

I just don't want to have to play another game where I have to grind skills in order to get a half-decent character. It's totally immersion-breaking and becomes extremely tedious when you want to play more than one character. Just think of the things people do to get a decent character in Oblivion: holding down the button on sneak and walking into a wall for minutes on end; endlesssly summoning creatures to attack over and over; running around chain-casting spells etc.

One of the things I immediately liked about Fallout 3 was gaining experience from killing enemies and completing quests. I'm levelling a character on Oblivion at the moment and trying to get a decent Marksman level makes me want to bang my head against a wall. In Fallout 3 all I have to do to improve my gun skill is distribute a few points into Small Guns when I level up. A much better system which allows me to actually enjoy the game without repetitious grinding.

» Mon May 02, 2011 3:14 am

-A Simplistic World Editor available to Console Users. I never got to play Oblivion on the PC because I didn't have the money to buy a computer capable of running the game. I'm sure many console users wish they could design their own castles, dungeons, and other things, and perhaps the ability to share the custom content over Xbox Live.

I would very much like this.

» Sun May 01, 2011 4:27 pm

Wouldn't that be hard to hit someone with? I mean, they have like 5 minutes to get out of the way.
Run to a mountaintop, unleash some kind of meteor swarm, etc.
Eat a snack real quick, hit him with a lightning bolt.
:snoring:

Yup. A Mage or a Range Character would destroy this guy.

» Mon May 02, 2011 3:23 am

-A Simplistic World Editor available to Console Users. I never got to play Oblivion on the PC because I didn't have the money to buy a computer capable of running the game. I'm sure many console users wish they could design their own castles, dungeons, and other things, and perhaps the ability to share the custom content over Xbox Live.

I would very much like this.

Would require MS and Sony to agree to the idea. MS being the big obstacle.

Fact is though, the ES Construction Set and the GECK are both slimmed down versions of the same editor used by the developers. They just lack several features used by the dev -mostly tools licensed from third parties.

They're also windows architecture programs which require Windows and a number of libraries within windows to run. They also tend to be more demanding on hardware than the games themselves.

Beth 'could' devote effort to making a version of the editor that runs on the consoles, but it would require a devotion of resources that wouldn't be cost effective unless Beth charged for this simple world editor.

Would you be willing to pay for an editor that does only a small fraction of the free PC version?

I'm guessing most people won't be happy with that.

» Sun May 01, 2011 3:45 pm

I like the idea of the big hammer or broadswords that you can only use with strength and blunt etc maxed out. And a build that goes with it. It would take a bit longer to swing but not so long that you take 5 shots in the time it takes to swing it. It won't feel right without a massive, bearded Nord with a hammer the size of a child in a tavern surrounded by women and patrons listening to him brag loudlyvabout crushing 30 vamps in his last dungeon crawl. You could even meet him in random dungeons or get ivited along when your renown is high.

» Mon May 02, 2011 4:57 am

Would require MS and Sony to agree to the idea. MS being the big obstacle.

Fact is though, the ES Construction Set and the GECK are both slimmed down versions of the same editor used by the developers. They just lack several features used by the dev -mostly tools licensed from third parties.

They're also windows architecture programs which require Windows and a number of libraries within windows to run. They also tend to be more demanding on hardware than the games themselves.

Beth 'could' devote effort to making a version of the editor that runs on the consoles, but it would require a devotion of resources that wouldn't be cost effective unless Beth charged for this simple world editor.

Would you be willing to pay for an editor that does only a small fraction of the free PC version?

I'm guessing most people won't be happy with that.

I would and I am sure many would spend the, What? $20 for a world editor rather than the thousands for a gaming PC that I will only play one game on.

You are right about MS being the big obstacle as they are firmly against modding. It really doesnt make sense considering it will only be a singe player game...

» Sun May 01, 2011 10:44 pm

Wouldn't that be hard to hit someone with? I mean, they have like 5 minutes to get out of the way.
Run to a mountaintop, unleash some kind of meteor swarm, etc.
Eat a snack real quick, hit him with a lightning bolt.
:snoring:

Well, I was thinking a bit along the lines of you being able to play basically as the same physical muscle build as a flesh atronach... think of it that way but you're a to-the-core big orc or nord or something raised by the fighters guild. Think of yourself as the Elder Scrolls version of Hulk Hogan or something :coolvaultboy:

Sure mages would dominate you but they are your counter-class and they're made to do that and you're made to kick some ass with your giant hammer. A good way to avoid them easily just casting would be for you to do a charge ability, knock em down and then get em familiar with your giant hammer

» Mon May 02, 2011 3:48 am

Well, I was thinking a bit along the lines of you being able to play basically as the same physical muscle build as a flesh atronach... think of it that way but you're a to-the-core big orc or nord or something raised by the fighters guild. Think of yourself as the Elder Scrolls version of Hulk Hogan or something :coolvaultboy:

Sure mages would dominate you but they are your counter-class and they're made to do that and you're made to kick some ass with your giant hammer. A good way to avoid them easily just casting would be for you to do a charge ability, knock em down and then get em familiar with your giant hammer

Fair Enough. It sounds like it could be a fun class to roll.

» Sun May 01, 2011 4:33 pm

My thoughts on the quest markers:

To be done properly is when you are given a quest, the quest giver should give you a general area of where the quest is taking place. If they want you to go to some cave, they would tell you an approximate direction, then mark the precise location on your map. Once at and in the cave, the handholding stops, and you need to search the cave for X thing you needed to do.

Now, that's if the NPC knows where exactly they want you to go. In some cases, they don't and only know a general area. In which case, they tell you "X thing is at Y, but I'm not exactly too sure where Y place is. If I remember right, it's Z direction around this area." Then the NPC would place an area of approximation on your map. Unlike the NPC who knows where something exactly is, they only know it's in a general area. Because they only know it's in a general area, the area that the NPC thinks the place is will be highlighted (kind of what they did in WAR). Sometimes they may provide multiple general areas, because the NPC has no sense of direction, were lost, etc.

If the NPC or quest needs one to find a certain person, same rules apply. If the npc knows the exact schedule of the person, they'd tell you which times and which places that NPC would be. If the npc only knows the general area, they'd say "All I know is, this person is here at X town. Ask around for more precise information." And if you don't know where X town is, the NPC would provide that information. No quest marker of who to ask or where the person is.

However, there are cases where all you are told to do or find something, and you are given no other information. These quests require the person to use that noodle, ask around, search for clues, and try to pry as much information out. They also include general hunting quests like "I need some imp gall. Bring me 10 and you'll be paid."

» Sun May 01, 2011 7:44 pm

Don't make TES V for the Wii. :banghead:

» Mon May 02, 2011 2:24 am

My thoughts on the quest markers:

To be done properly is when you are given a quest, the quest giver should give you a general area of where the quest is taking place. If they want you to go to some cave, they would tell you an approximate direction, then mark the precise location on your map. Once at and in the cave, the handholding stops, and you need to search the cave for X thing you needed to do.

However, there are cases where all you are told to do or find something, and you are given no other information. These quests require the person to use that noodle, ask around, search for clues, and try to pry as much information out. They also include general hunting quests like "I need some imp gall. Bring me 10 and you'll be paid."

Seems to me that we could have both realistic quest drections from MPCs AND a quest marker that can be toggled on/off. That way, folks could "use that noodle" by turning off the marker, and other players, who would rather use it, could turn the marker on.

» Sun May 01, 2011 5:16 pm

My thoughts on the quest markers:

To be done properly is when you are given a quest, the quest giver should give you a general area of where the quest is taking place. If they want you to go to some cave, they would tell you an approximate direction, then mark the precise location on your map. Once at and in the cave, the handholding stops, and you need to search the cave for X thing you needed to do.

Now, that's if the NPC knows where exactly they want you to go. In some cases, they don't and only know a general area. In which case, they tell you "X thing is at Y, but I'm not exactly too sure where Y place is. If I remember right, it's Z direction around this area." Then the NPC would place an area of approximation on your map. Unlike the NPC who knows where something exactly is, they only know it's in a general area. Because they only know it's in a general area, the area that the NPC thinks the place is will be highlighted (kind of what they did in WAR). Sometimes they may provide multiple general areas, because the NPC has no sense of direction, were lost, etc.

If the NPC or quest needs one to find a certain person, same rules apply. If the npc knows the exact schedule of the person, they'd tell you which times and which places that NPC would be. If the npc only knows the general area, they'd say "All I know is, this person is here at X town. Ask around for more precise information." And if you don't know where X town is, the NPC would provide that information. No quest marker of who to ask or where the person is.

However, there are cases where all you are told to do or find something, and you are given no other information. These quests require the person to use that noodle, ask around, search for clues, and try to pry as much information out. They also include general hunting quests like "I need some imp gall. Bring me 10 and you'll be paid."

Okay, if a non-player character marks a location on your map, then there is no need for the retarded quest compass. "Cave X" is already shown on your map so you can just run there without the annoying red arrow to guide you. There is absolutely no reason for the quest compass.

» Sun May 01, 2011 2:45 pm

Seems to me that we could have both realistic quest drections from MPCs AND a quest marker that can be toggled on/off. That way, folks could "use that noodle" by turning off the marker, and other players, who would rather use it, could turn the marker on.

Oh, not this argument again? Togglable quest markers/fast travel etc are NOT a fix. I'm not going to use a feature in the game and do it the long way? Especially when there probably isn't going to be an alternative, like OB's fast travel...

Being honest, the marker isn't the real trouble.. what I want is to get rid of stupid crappy fast travel.. Can we not have some travel services? Just think of the games that made Elder Scrolls awesome and don't change the general ideas.

» Sun May 01, 2011 4:15 pm

Seems to me that we could have both realistic quest drections from MPCs AND a quest marker that can be toggled on/off. That way, folks could "use that noodle" by turning off the marker, and other players, who would rather use it, could turn the marker on.

No, more like "I heard the bandits live in the Blackwater cave. Go there to find them, I'll mark the location on your map." From there you go to the location, but the marker ONLY points to where the cave is. From there, you have to find all the bandits yourself. And that's ONLY if the NPC knows the exact location. If the NPC doesn't they'd highlight an area on the map where they THINK they're hiding. The following conversation would be like "Yeah, we've been getting hit from these raiders, but we have no idea where. All I know is that they come north of here, and I think in these areas." From there you have to search on your own, or ask around and hope other NPCs can tell you a more precise location, but it won't be marked down. And then there's the case where you are given clues and a place to go (or a description of a place), but there's no marker. From there, you need to do your own detective work.