Well, in Oblivion its arguable that you were the secondary character being used by the others. Martin was the real hero, you were his helper...

TTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!

Thief is a masterpiece crafted like artwork, woven like a fine garment it is the epitomy and mastery of gaming. In all honesty it is the most realistic game I have ever played. It's quality of enjoyment is comparable to that of any ElderScrolls game produced to date. The ElderScrolls needs to start sharing some more elements with Thief.

And Daniel Kay sometimes it's not "DON'T MAKE IT LIKE GAME X" It's I really just don't want this element in the game for this reason.

Things like Flirting if done well could actually add quite a bit to the game. Things like courting the countess' daughter to manipulate a political figure or any other inventive use.

Hypothetical problems with flirting post:

Supposing flirtation is not a behavior limited to NPCs (which could arguably be a good limitation in the short term, while reasonable and fun mechanics are devised), we have the issue of how it works.

Is the player character somehow innately capable of this? or is there Crassius Curio's Flirtation for Adventurers, THE one true manual of introductory Flirtation, which you must steal, purchase, or find and read to flirt (with Crassius Curio's later volumes, of course, offering new strategies and hints!)? Or perhaps one need only see an instance of flirtation in-game to mimic it?

Is it an all-or-nothing thing, or is flirtation a set of concepts that can be expanded through socialization, reading, and generally developing a winning personality? If it can be developed, how? By use? By other means? In combination?

How does race impact flirtation? Do Altmer pretty much reject non-Altmer? Are Imperials better flirts than Redguards? What happens if an Argonian flirts with the Cheshire Khajiit?

I'm thinking that finding the content itself to be desirable, in this instance, proves to be insufficient. The logical conclusion, of course, would be that any flirting be done through speechcraft... but Oblivion's system isn't conducive to it, and Morrowind's just as bad in entirely different ways, meaning it's not even on the map unless TESV has a new system. I therefore propose that it may be generally considered "a good idea" to have flirtation in game, the mechanics of the concept as we would like to see it implemented are "undetermined" and "incompatible with the last known working TES system". Now that we've shot down a vague idea as "implausible and without hard principles to define it", I'd like to see a discussion on what player-directed flirtation and romance should be like, how it should work, etc. And it had better be realistic. HMA is not getting any younger and he's still socially clueless, so actual pragmatic principles might save the poor guy.

signed, HMA

I dont want to see all of tamriel an the aedra and daedras realm in 1 single game. Do any of you even know how much of a pc it will require? Not even a PS3 could handle a province just half as big as daggerfall.
Even if they could make a 28-core proccesor that would need its own generator as power supply, and integrade it into a console or pc, wouldnt that just be too lonely for a single person to run around all of Tamriel and the other realms. And when you have wasted 5 years of your life discovering everything on Nirn, there wont be anymore TES games, cause all cities, provinces even realms have been used.

I'd go for a province maybe just 4 times as big as oblivion max, and with enough npc's, cities, items, quests and much more content that would make the game actually feel like a real land.

Yes, but given that the trend has been to scale down gameplay in favour of graphics, and given the amount of money that gamesas must be generating from all their other games, they must be able to extend the gameplay to the levels it once reached, just take away the limitations, that's all I ask, and they will indeed make a ton of money from TESV if they do this, charge 5 times the normal price, give us 5 or 10 cd's full of content and 1 full of graphics and game mechanics, everyone will buy it because it is indeed the best rpg ever created, not just the best for a year, but a cutting edge, state of the art, massive creation that people will enjoy 20 years from now despite the graphics upgrades over time, for instance, I still play Daggerfall and Morrowind...

Ok, 'nuff about that...

I want to wander the forests of TESV and find stuff, either lost bags of loot, hollow trees, hollow tree stumps, signs in daedric or runic text that point to nowhere or simply name the area, treehouses that you have to fly to, I want to be able to climb ladders and if possible walls and trees, I want a fast or slow kill option and a loud or silent kill option. But mostly just fill the forests and landscapes with holes and put things in them. I want to find hidden notes and treasure maps in the forests. I want to find a big blue box in the forest and hijack it to take me to one or two of the moons (doctor who reference... btw is there a doctor who game?... something to think about gamesas).

Stephen.

EDIT: I would also like to see beggars and thieves in the game who act like the beggars from Assassins Creed.

It's simple, have all the content (lands of Tamriel on one disk or two, lands of aedra on another, lands of oblivion on another, various continents from other lands on another 3 disks) installed on the hard drive and have the play disk just run the engines and graphics, when the player is in an area within the game it loads the appropriate content from the hard drive and as the player moves the engines wipe the memory as you move and keep loading new areas, it's been done before, don't see a problem...

If you save the other 3 continents that aren't even seen in any TES games so far, and put them into 3 to 10 different games over the next 40 years then you've still got tons of content for the TES series, I hardly think that any series is going to go as far as that though... I could be wrong and I hope I am though... I wish another Ultima game would come out...

Stephen.

May I note that for the sheer scope of what people are asking for, even a 64-bit OS may not be adequate?

And to improve much from Oblivion, the large address barrier is becoming very, very close to becoming a wall on 32-bit Windows?

Then again, having a 64-bit version, I only need the release of a 64-bit executable. Can any developers comment on the likelihood of future Bethedsa Softworks titles (that may not be TESV) being available in x64 versions?

To be fair, I was largely being hyperbolic and sarcastic when I made that list of things I "wanted," going out of my way to find things that were ridiculously resource-intensive to illustrate the silliness of not factoring in resources into ones suggesting.


The hardcoe of the fanbase might... -MIGHT- be tempted into paying 5 times the $50 or $60 for a TES game. However, it will act as a deterrent for virtually everyone else, and the game will more than likely sell poorly.
And that still doesn't change the fact that Morrowind did not finance Oblivion to be the game of infinite potential and imagination, just as Oblivion did not finance FO3 to be the game of infinite potential and imagination.

It's important to bring banks back into the game for soldier's pay and day-to-day financing. The Letters of Credit seen in previous games should return as well. Obviously it is unreasonable for people to travel with sacks of gold, so they would turn in their wealth at one bank for a letter of credit and redeem it for gold at another bank.

When i say be more creative, i mean instead of saying something costs too much resources, try to make a suggestion that costs less resources and find solutions. Saying "waste of resources" is not constructive.


You don't make TESV by taking oblivion and alter content and mechanics until you have a new game. That would be bad design strategy and waste of resources.
The world of a new game is build from the scratch, not altered and reconfigured, and mechanics are not thrown in, but integrated from the start. Those mechanics could be beneficial to every play style, don't cost so much resources that combat and magic couldn't be improved, and every resource that is used here is used for something good in my opinion.

You don't want to tell us what to suggest, but you tell us what is realistic and what is impossible.
You trade one blind eye for another, if you ignore the possibility that combat mechanics and weapon variety could actually both be improved. Sorry, i don't want to insult you, but in my opinion your view of reality is a bit to narrow to be realistic, and i don't think your observations and anolytical capabilities are that reliable.

What i say is that you cannot measure how good a game will be by the size of the dev team.
I think most of oblivions problems are not caused by lack of funding, but lack of creative solutions.

Cost of resources is not an argument that matters much for my suggestions, and is often used out of context by someone who just doesn't like a suggestion. Wasted resources for one are well spent resources for another.
Resources matter for the devs, but not for me, and not for any one else here, and i'll disagree with anyone who tries to make us think that it does.



I wasn't sarcastic when i said that those are very well possible, even with limited resources. Call it silly if you want, i find limiting yourself with the resource argument sillier.


LOL I actually find that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_1wLELvyFo more impressive than oblivions pretty shaders. State of the art? Where are those details?




As i see it, flirting would require an expanded disposition system, personality traits and tastes for the NPCs, and improved socialization skills for the player.
NPCs can find the player more or less attractive based on their tastes of gender, race, appearance, reputation and personality (actual personality, not the attribute).
I would make flirting more like the morrowind speechcraft system. You have multiple possible lines, that can be divided and color coded by intent, aggressive lines, flirtatious lines, jokes for example. All those lines have different disposition effects based on the NPCs personality, sometimes unexpected, a warrior could interpret an aggressive line as flirting.
The number of available lines can be expanded by speechcraft subskills, or a imaginary library keeping track of what you heard and read, that allow you to increase your vocabulary and social skills in various directions, reading "Uncle Crassius ultimate guide to flirting" would expand your choices of crude pick up lines and dirty jokes.

Very well. It's apparent that we hold two very irreconcilable views on the matter, and I will now apologize for drawing it out into such a long discussion. I also similarly apologize if i have been stunting suggestions.
:hugs:




On the subject of Redguard, they used, IIRC, OpenGL instead of DirectX, and they banked a lot on the Voodoo 3dFX accelerator, which most didn't have or didn't want to acquire. But I must agree vehemently in terms of actual design style; those seagulls, the water that actually displayed waves in three dimensions... These are things that I want returned to TES.

I never even though of somthing like an exspanded conversation system... but it could work. Maybe somthing a cross bwteen Morrowind and Oblivions. Morrowinds' was just stupid but the idea of sound and Oblivions was just too simple, but had a good idea. have sub-topics when it comes to conversations would be handy if you need to speak to a person in a certain way, rather than just Joke, Corece, Admire and whatnot. but having it as optional would be handy too, rather than spending all day talking to somone. lol

No problem :hugs:

On the second part, yea better eye on details would be nice again, the big overall is important but it's the tiny things you barely notice that can make the difference between it feeling like a game and feeling immersed.


Aside expanded conversation topics the NPCs actually need a bigger range of possible emotions and personalities to actually respond to the conversation topics in a believable way. Having just one general Like-Dislike value is not enough.

I agree. I think that somtimes you need to speak in the right way to a person to get the right information. For exsample, maybe you need to be polite or intimidating, and there would be sub-commands for that and you have to pull it off it in the right way. I think it would really make the Speachscraft skill usefull.

Thats what I meant, dunno where i got talos from, I must have been tired.

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/12/fail_duke_nukem/all/1 is what I want Bethesda to avoid at all costs.

Really? I thought they wanted to avoid fans? XD

Something i had in mind was that there's more than just "like - dislike" but actually 3 fields of disposition:
-Hate --- Like
-Despite --- Respect
-Fear --- Trust
If somebody likes you more he'll be a bit more open but won't exactly trust you with secrets.
If he respects you he's willing to do things that are usually against his nature and tell you things he'll usually hold back on.
Fear and Trust can have a similar result but still differ a bit. Of somebody trusts you he'll be willing to reaveal true secrets or things that can even put him in harm, if he's afraid of you he'll be more willing to reveal secrets too but possibly holds back on ones that pretty much guarante he'd die from revealing it since the worst you could do is kill him too.

Aside that it also infleunces their behavior, someone who likes you will be more willing to lean your way when negotiating for example, go down with prices a bit or give you a little more.
If someone respects you they will do more that supports you like defend you either in a fight or and argument.
If someobody fears you you can threaten him into doing things but again if they mean a assured death he'll be willing to fight you. If he TRUSTS you he will do things that could even be dangerous for him wihout needing any threat.
A combination of like, respect and trust can even mean somebody can put himself in risk of dying FOR you.

I really like this, but what do you think of my idea of having speach commands and sub-commands, with the right ones needed to be used for the right resaults. It would be the real world version of having to be shy, subtle, intimidating ect. Each of these would have sub commands which youy could use depending of how the NPC feels towards you, which could work with your method.

It sounds good, when talking to some kind of king who thinks of himself like a demigod you can't just walk in and say "hey you, crown guy, come here". That would likely get you a lot of negative points with him .

Yeah, like that. lol

I really liked the conversation wheel in Mass Effect if you have played it. That would give you an idea of what I mean. That, mixed with my idea.

Say, for exsample, you had to charm some one. You would open the charm menu to see the sub menu and you have diffrent ways to charm and you'd have to select the right ones and the wrong ones could have bad effects.

I havent played it but yea i think i know what you mean. With a really expanded and detailed system such a thing would be more than possible and effective, at least if you try to play without brute forcing your way through the game.
I'll just say "Fallout" where you can TALK the final boss to death... in a way at least

YOU all come with such great ideas and this constructive critticisms you give each other is good and a healthy way too sustain a civilized arguement.

Now some of my ideas the use of traps. Traps materially i dont mind. but whats about a magical trap. lets say u are being chased by a gaurd or a few zombies. U enter a door u decide too put a curse on the door that will last however long. lets say its a fire based curse. They touch the door then they suffer from burns and fire what ever. Lets say u put a conjuration charm on the door and any one who touches the door must face some type of beast.

Another idea is shapeshifting. now this can be used too hide yourself from enemies and could make the enemy think that you have left. and could also be used to make you travel faster.

Another idea a dark or light presence however you want too build your character. lets say you are soo bad that even the gaurd would not dare try too arrest you. They would actually instead of saying scum they would say please oh dark lord have mercy upon my soul. And for very good characters they would say oh please saint pray for my soul as i come before. All these matter upon your reputation.

Another thing is i would like a force lightning affect to the game. Also the curses idea wouldnt be bad

/thread/