Yes. I like the sound of a second and/or third disc to install to the hard drive if it makes the game bigger and better. They could put a statement on the cover that a hard drive is essential to play the game.

Plus, making all the dialogue optional means that mods can be more immersive. The big problem with many mods is that they lack voice-acting or the voices are so different that it breaks immersion. If voices are turned off, then mods will fit right in.

The way I see it:
100% recorded dialogue is a really cool thing. But, in this decade, technology isn't good enough to make all the dialogue in a game recorded without also sacrificing a bunch of crucial content to make room.

Recorded dialogue is a novelty. It improves the atmosphere of the in-game world but it does not make the game more fun except for the people who hate reading. It is not necessary.

That being said, I think recorded dialogue shouldn't even be considered this time around. We got flashiness last time, let's get some substance this time around.

Morrowind's Daedric Armor was great. It was quite original looking and very fearsome, not to mention the detail. See that sun on the pauldrons?

Hmmm, If the next game is set in Skyrim, I wonder what the armors will end up looking like? I imagine we'd be seeing much more Nordic and Troll-bone armors/weapons, but what about glass and Daedric?

If only... I would hope that recorded dialogue goes, but I think it's here to stay. There's too many mainstream gamers out there to not include it.

I also don't think it should require a hard drive to play the game, just to have the voice files included. Not a very smart move to eliminate thousands of consumers.


I'd think that all armour, except maybe province exclusive (though I think it will) will be in TESV. They've angered too many fans to remove even more from the game.

I totally can't wait for feasible text-to-speech programs. I've heard the technology is getting there, but it still doesn't sound perfect. But then again, neither half of Oblivion's voice-actors...

EDIT: Dood! Check this out! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgxSR72TWrY
It's still not great, but it's getting closer and closer.

The fact that it's recorded and not generated shows how old and outdated it is. Its like voicemail. It sounds real at first "Hello. Hey. How's it going. Just kidding! Leave a message after the beep." ...when you see how fake it is, you are filled with rage. Its like hearing NPCs talk about mudcrabs 20 times a day. I'd rather they just stay silent, or make Sims esque gestures.

I've seen a few computer programs that can actively answer questions. Obviously, generating a text response is easier than generating a vocal one. But being able to actively talk to NPCs would open up huuge possibilites, and the technology has been there for years. Idk what kind of processing power it takes, however.

The only issue with removing voice dialogue is that most games haven't been just text since the early 2000's. We're in 2010 now. I'm not saying it would necessarily be a step backward, although it would feel like it, but it'd be removing something from the game that wasn't entirely broken. They stopped hiring wicked-expensive voice actors in Fallout 3, and those characters had some emotion, and I honestly never noticed hearing the same voice twice besides on the randomly generated NPCs. It didn't cost them enormous amounts of money to do, since Fallout 3 still had two separate player homes with tons of different upgrades, NavMesh, "Speech Checks", better physics, interesting side-quests, great visual effects, VATS, better looking characters, height/weight difference in characters, explorable items, children, NPCs that duck behind cover when attacked, better water effects, the ability to "talk" to non-Humanoid NPCs, leg movement based on angle of terrain, Animation Markers that let NPCs do things like put their hands in front of a fire, environmental effects on the player, random NPC encounters, traveling merchants, option to add new meshes to NPCs besides the "Default" ones (eye-patches, beards, etc.), sever-able limbs, better animations, Unique NPC-NPC dialogue outside of quests, better lighting effects, the ability to make your own weapons, the ability to repair armor/weapons using other armor/weapons, more unique items, NPC Companions, a very nice main-quest, and so much more.

If that isn't an upgrade from Oblivion and adding more "substance" while still hiring more voice actors than previously... I don't know what is.

It might be more main-stream to have voice acting, and it might make NPCs have a few less dialogue choices, but it's probably here to stay, so we might as well look at the positives of it. Besides, there were more dialogue options in Fallout 3 too.

All in the same town, by the way.

Some games, such as Borderlands, don't have voices for much of the dialog.

Although Borderlands is also much more mission oriented such that you aren't really speaking to people very often or for very long.

Fallout 3 was an improvement on Oblivion, yes. But, the amount of content could have easily tripled, had the dialogue been all text.

What you're saying is valid because the business majors who actually publish a game are gonna look at the fact that games haven't been all text for nearly a decade, and they'll get scared of losing some money.

However, there is no comparison between text-based and spoken word games when it comes to content.

Voice-acted dialogue always means less in-game content. And that's what I want more than anything: content.

:)

Very true, voiced-dialogue isn't required in a good game.


What sort-of content are you referencing to, exactly?

I'm not trying to make a snide remark, I'm curious.

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Along the lines of discussion for ideas for TES:V, I didn't like the "Megaton Settlers" "Tenpenny Residents" and "Little Lamplighters" wondering around, if those kinds of characters were all replaced with non-changing characters that had some sort-of a back-story at least, it would make the game much more fun.

Fallout 3 isn't as lore-ey as TES, though. I would like to see long conversations about important aspects of lore, such as the ones had with Yagrum and Vivec in Morrowind. There just isn't enough space to make it feasible, unless there's another disc involved, of course. I don't think money is really an issue here, Bethesda will make thier money back no matter what, it's the space we're worried about.

Even with another disc or two, I'm just not sure that I could have large conversations with NPC's with voice actors. They always feel so overdramatic, or underdramatic. It's hard to have the right amount of dramaticness with voice actors. text leaves a lot to the imagination. I would rather they spent a little bit more on higher quality voice actors, Morrowind style, than spent less on lower quality voices Oblivion style.

Of course, this issue could be remedied with a text option, where the writers could write more, and we could choose to read it with text only, but I really doubt they'd write everything twice over. :shrug:


I'd actually like to see these NPC's added to start, and a backstory added to them between the finish date and release date. It's better to have a lot of nameless NPC's in a city, than a few named ones. Anyways, it'd be modded... at least I hope... was it modded in fallout? if not, then why?

Like, for example, there could have been a quest line for each branch of the guilds in Oblivion, instead of one common questline for the whole guild. But the amount of dialogue that would need to be recorded made that impossible.

They were gonna make the temple a joinable faction, but there wasn't room for all the quests because of the recorded dialogue.

The main thing to remember is that if the dialogue for quests takes up less space, there is more room for more quests.

But other things Oblivion had to sacrifice to make room for dialogue was items, and textures, and DIRECTIONS! One of the most fun things about Morrowind, IMO, is that each quest location came with a set of impossible directions you had to figure out. (oh, the hours I spent scoping out vaguely-described landmarks)

I remember reading the devs post something about how the sheer amount of space it would take to make a unique set of directions for each location makes directions impossible with spoken dialogue.

I agree with basically this whole post. I enjoyed having to get directions from abunch of bealry-eyed NPCs who had no idea what they were talking about. I mean, if NPCs in Oblivion at least said they were marking your map up with landmarks I'd go with it, but the fact of the matter is in the mages Guild you get a riddle as to WHAT a location MIGHT be and simultaneously get a magic compass pointer right to it.

Having multiple faction questlines, like Morrowind, would have been great. Especially since they did effect the small-story outcome for a lot of people but allowed the big picture to remain unchanged. Either way, Trebonius goes down, Hard-heart dies, etc. If something like that can be voiced, sure, otherwise I'd rather main quest voiced with factions being text, but who knows.

I always thought the male Redgaurd voice was usually very under-dramatic. "Somebodysbeenmurdered" was all in the same breath, and said in the same tone. But people are sort-of like that too. I understand why text would be preferred, because sometimes we make these characters look/sound amazing in our minds and then they're completely different when portrayed by the company that developed them.

However, I think Bethesda can pull it off now that they're going to be doing a more "Lore" based game.

I'm sure they probably have one somewhere. Haha, there's a mod for almost everything.

But if it's done in TES:V it could be modded also. The thing that bugged me with those NPCs though, is that you couldn't talk to them. They'd pass by, make a remark, and then leave.


Yeah, the quest for Countess Narina Carvain was actually really fun, I would have liked to see more quests with directions in Oblivion. For some reason in Fallout 3, Fast-Travel didn't seem so bad. I remember finding a note that led me to an old boxcar with some stuff in it based on directions, and I never fast-traveled very often either. But having more direction-based quests, and reducing the amount of "compass quests" gives people less of a feeling like they know where everything is.

But either way, if they've already spent an extra year on announcing the game compared to their old trends, maybe there'll be even more content than before.

While Oblivion lacked voiced lore, it still had written lore. They are in Oblivion's books. Perhaps Bethesda can continue with voiced dialogue, but continue to write many books for each game. There is still lore in Oblivion, but one has to go and find it instead of have to go through it in dialogue form. If Bethesda could write even more books per game, then voiced dialogue's limited lore could be balanced out.

It's not just the lore that was sacrificed, but also many quests because of the space the dialogue would take up.

One thing Morrowind did have was mini-quests that you could take from reading books. Like Chance's Folly, for example. You can pick up clues from the book and find that dungeon in the game, and take the loot.

However, I really want to see more more factions and faction quests in this next one. And if text-based dialogue makes that happen, then I welcome it.

well wile i want bandits,smugglers,murdarers,ect unnamed so they re spawn ,i don't want genetic NPC citizens that would make the game less life like they would have to make it like morrowind wend they stand in a place or walk on small distances.

Oh, of course not this. I was thinking MCA style random NPC's that I could talk to.

Well, not every NPC. Some would outright ignore me. But when I can't talk to someone, I'd get a nasty response, instead of what there was in Fallout. it'd likely be the rich people that ignore me, and would only stop once I'm wearing decent clothes/armour. They don't want to be seen in the presence of a dirty commoner. Guards would ignore frequent law breakers when there's no one around to report them, high ranking mage guild members would ignore you if you have a lot of quests done for the thieves guild, etc. Would be a good way to implement guild hatred. Even in Morrowind, it wasn't shown enough. I would be able to have them talk to me though, with either charm or speechraft/personality, giving it a use again. It would be the only way to join two rival guilds. Any huge ones, like Morrowind's great houses wouldn't do this though, as it's the rules, not because they hate you.

Also, in Morrowind, people complemented me on my armour far too easily. I want it to take me a while to get decent looking. Perhaps around the level 10 mark, players would generally start getting there (not a level limit - just the general level you'll be).

In Morrowind, people being in awe at my Nerevarineness was plain annoying, but it was also annoying that I wasn't thanked enough for Oblivion's events (at least I think - never actually completed the main quest)

I'd like it if each NPC would have a "omg, you're that guy" line only the first time they've spoken to you after the main quest, at which point, there'd be a topic in every friendly NPC's dialogue about it.



I've said it many times. We need a slider to limit respawning. If I don't want enemies to respawn, I could put the slider to the left, If I do want them to respawn, I could put the slider around the middle, if I want them to respawn fairly quickly, I could put the slider to the right. I could do this with enemies, wildlife, friendly NPC's, and containers.

The effort of programming and general game-making time/resources are far more significant to whether a quest gets done than disk space. I would not be surprised to hear that zero quests were affected by disk space, even. While spoken dialogue does directly hinder how much total dialogue is available, I think you're greatly overestimating how much impact it has on everything else.

Trust me, everybody thanks you when you're closing Oblivion gates, and then people will mourn the loss of a main quest member with you, and also thank you for saving Cyrodiil at the end.

But they don't do it over and over again. Only the first time you talk to them after.

Something that worries me is, skyrim is a mountainous area, but climbing mountains in OB was such a pain in the butt, I hope they address this issue...

:nod:

Just imagine having a quest at the top of the largest mountain in Tamriel with Oblivion's "Jump, float for a bit, and hope you make it up far enough to be able to jump again, and if you can't walk sideways on the mountain 'til you find a spot" system.

Icepicks could be interesting, but I wonder how they'd work.

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Random thought... I wonder how many references to this thread M'aiq will make.

lol I can see hours of fun with that system. Perhaps we should have to Adoring Fan pull us up instead. Also on the topic of voice acting, I doubt very much that TES will go back to being text based as in the eyes of the casual gamer it'd be a step back and require too much effort (reading? wtf thats so last decade). After all Bethesda's aim is to sell as many copies as possible, not please the dedicated fans. As long as they improve the variety of the voices used I'll be happy.

"Maiq knows many things, tells some."

"Maiq hears people want to pick ice and climb mountains, Maiq sees no use for this, Maiq has allready claws. Maiq thinks this would be a waste of time. Mounts are too cold anyway."

But yeah, theres allready been a Maiq thread.