I didn't think the Daedric armour in Morrowind was that bad :shrug:

Anyways, I still agree on the seperate Daedric prince armour idea, but I would still like to be able to trap the soul of a certain minion e.g. golden saints for sheogorath to get the princes armour

Are you referring to http://www.uesp.net/w/images/images.new/7/79/MW_DaedricArmor.jpg armor?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cy1ty4nvmc

I think it would be best to be able to get two pieces of daedric armor from each daedric lord. One through the mage's guild, one through their shrine. That's assuming they continue having the shrines. Three complete sets of the generic daedric kind should be available in the world, being worn by people. The armor should not weigh more than ebony, because souls shouldn't have weight.

I don't care for the story though that daedric is enchanted ebony, it's a weak explanation. I would rather it be a material you find on daedric planes, and to that end, dremora armor could be a weaker metal from daedric planes.

I think ideally it would simply vary with the type. Humans have their various materials and styles and shapes and crafting methods, why wouldn't daedra? That particular method might be something primarily used by Dremora, being war spirits in service of Mehrunes Dagon. Theirs is the only armor type we've gotten before anyway. Perhaps once they vanquish their enemies they subjugate their spirits into equipment, you've got some Destruction and Change right there. Equipment from Hircine's plane might be made from the bones of hunted creatures, directly shaped into an item in a way humans couldn't do. Maybe Vaermina's could be taken directly from a person's nightmares, dispersing once they wake up. Or more alien stuff, like crystallized light, or simpler solutions like standard forged items from materials found in daedric planes.

"Daedric Armor" seems like a broad generalization to begin with.

Why can't some daedric armor be made from materials on daedric planes. And other daedric armor be mortal armor, enchanted by daedric spells.

Maybe this game should delve more into those details in general.

Is there something like that for hair? Cause last i checked my hair's always been very rigid.

Isn't that it, though. Daedric stuff is bound to its respective realm. It is though conjuration, then binding it to a thing (enchanting) that it can stay on mundus. So enchanting an iron curiass with CE bound curiass would be like making the crappiest mundus variation of daedric armor there is. While ebony creates the strongest mundus variation of armor. And to follow the thought, no daedric armor from mundus should match the potential of the armor in its own relm.

So sure, plunder the next daedric lord or prince, but don't expect what he has to hold its potential value in mundus.

hmm, I guess with the whole infernal city story, this might not hold. Beth might have some new lore ready for us on this topic.

It seems I had the misfortune of posting mine at the very end of the last thread. Ah well.

I dunno if this has been suggested, but bring back separate pieces of armor! being able to have different gloves and paulders made for some amazing and unique looking characters.

I agree with the spear suggestion as well. Sure, not everyone used weapons like the crossbow or darts but...they were a nice option to have.

This is debatable, but maybe keep the graphics at oblivion level (or maybe even less), and instead focus on a bigger more expansive game.

Oblivion was a good game with decent mechanics, but lacked the color and flare of Morrowind.

Hrm...as long as it looks better than that demo. There were times when the non-physics version looked better...so unless TESV takes place on the moon they'll need to tweak that a bit and make the cloth heavier and more durable. Fat physics(as demo'd) would be good too, hehe.

Keep the graphics at Oblivion's level or even less? :rofl: That is not debatable, that just isn't going to happen. I don't want to see Bethesda go bankrupt and one of Bethesda's traditions is using advanced graphics. All TES games looked amazing when they were released and graphics have no effect on less expansive or different game, so downgrading them or not improving them has no effect on the game. Better graphics don't equal worse game and of course Oblivion doesn't have the color and flare of Morrowind. Only Morrowind can have that. Each Elder Scrolls game is unique. Bethesda likes to restart with each new game and I like that feeling that something is new and unique. If Bethesda stopped improving graphics and just kept releasing copies of one game, then how would a new game be a new game? Each Elder Scrolls game is unique, and so Oblivion doesn't have the color and flare of Morrowind nor does Morrowind have the color and flare of Daggerfall, but that is why Morrowind and Oblivion are separate games from their predecessors. I happen to enjoy Oblivion's unique just as much as Morrowind's unique atmosphere and I like Morrowind's unique atmosphere just as much as I like Daggerfall's unique atmosphere. Halting change is not the answer to making a better Elder Scrolls game, and whether one thinks Oblivion is as good as Morrowind or not is an opinion, and only an opinion. Bethesda wants and embraces change, so making a game a copy of a previous one is not an option. Change is deeply rooted in the creation process of TES games. If Bethesda can move on, why can't the fans? My suggestion is for Bethesda to try new things and experiment, just as they always have. Each Elder Scrolls game will feel different, and I welcome future changes.

Okay, I'll admit the graphics thing is a good point

But I think you misunderstood what I meant otherwise. Morrowind was original, Oblivion was as well. However I know I'm not the only person who thinks they dumbed down Oblivion from TES 2/3. It was basically just a follow the arrow hack n' slash.
I'm not saying don't make each game unique, but I would simply expect something as finished as Oblivion to be less restrictive than it's predecessors, not more so.

There are also those who think TES II and TES III are hack and slash games. I know some turn-based RPG fans who claim the whole series is just hack and slash. One even went so far as to claim Morrowind is an FPS. The quest arrow shows dumbed-down target-finding, but it was due to Morrowind fans complaining that places were too hard to find. Many of Bethesda's changes are due to complaints. I agree that the quest arrow represents some dumbing down, but only the quest arrow does. The lower amount of skills is purely due to simplification. Morrowind did the same thing. Some skills were seen as useless and so they were cut off. The lack of armor pieces is just simplification. Clipping isn't going to be a problem with set pauldrons and only a set of armor or a robe being worn at once. I want several things back from Morrowind, but beyond some changes, nothing about Oblivion is dumbed-down and the hack and slash part just isn't true. Daggerfall and Morrowind are just as much about hacking and slashing. Oblivion's improvement of combat is a good thing for a real-time RPG. If combat is to always remain boring, then why doesn't the series just become turn-based? There are many people who think far too badly about Oblivion. It has its flaws, but they are far too exaggerated. Take away quest arrows and Oblivion is not dumbed down from Morrowind at all. Morrowind was just follow the directions hack and slash and Daggerfall was just maze-crawling hack and slash. Morrowind has flaws of its own and Daggerfall has many flaws of its own.

Actually, I think a lot of problems and complaints that arise from Oblivion are because it wasn't properly finished. If you take a look at some of the claims, ads, videos, etc from before it was released, they were planning a whole lot that just never made it. The AI is bad, for example, probably because they were unable to get the extremely complicated Radiant AI they worked so long on under control and functional, and had to substitute something basic. Areas that seem linear, constrictive, or unfinished are likely victim of plans that had to be cancelled, leaving more of a sheer dropoff among the survivors than if they had been planned that way from the start. It's one of the reasons I don't care at all how long it takes for TESV to be announced; putting it on the table just increases hype and pressure to make deadlines and meet them. They can take as long as they want, as far as I'm concerned.

Unfinished product doesn't account for every factor of the game, of course, but there's little doubt that it suffered a lot for it.

I agree. Bethesda should take as much time as they need to make TES V. One very obvious example of that not being properly finished is the house across from mine, in Skingrad, being full of undead with no explanation or solution. That's not very comfortable to know. Morrowind had 5 more months of development than Oblivion, right? In designing terms, how much could an extra 5 months help?

Hah, I'm all for quirky mysteries, but that one bothered me as well.

But on the subject of addressing complaints, it seems that much of the rushing they did to release TES IV led to a lot of band-aid solutions to some of these problems.
i.e. I know that they needed to make money making harder but...I will never know how a merchant in the IC can tell I stole an apple from a bum in Bruma.

So I do agree that I would love to see Bethesda take it's time on #5. Heck, look at Valve, took like 6 years for Half Life 2 and it's still considered among the best FPS.

(By the way, I'm not meaning to come across as bashing oblivion, due to the fact it's 3:30 in the morning I seem to be having trouble expressing myself with absolute clarity. >.<)

If so, it was 3 years between oblivion and Fallout 3, and they didnt fix ANYTHING. Its the exact same exact engine. They didnt improve the AI, they didnt fix the shadows. I was so disapointed when I bought Fo3. I played 2 characters with Fo3 then uninstaleld it and havent palyed since.

Hmm.. I suppose I actually rarely wear the helmets and shields on my heavy armour characters. I don't see the angry faces.

I'd also like it if I could wear a shield while I was weilding a two handed weapon. I'm not sure how it was in Oblivion, but I could wear my shield, and get bonuses from it when I using my two handed weapons.

CONVERSATION IDEA:

Not sure if I saw this somewhere or if its actually an original idea (doubtful, heh) but I had a thought about a more dynamic way to deal with conversations.

First of all, a system more akin to Fallout 3 would be good, where the character actually says complete sentences instead of just single words that illicit a response, ha!

But on top of that, it would be interesting instead of just having 'good,' 'bad' and 'neutral' options you actually have a 'tone' menu with four different options that override your various responses. For argument's sake they could be 'neutral,' 'polite,' 'curt,' and 'sarcastic'

So here's an example:

You talk to some dude and he tells you (hypothetical situation) "You won't get into any trouble with the boss if you keep your mouth shut and do as your told." You are currently selecting the default tone option: "Neutral" so your possible responses could be "Thanks for the advice," or "I'm not worried." Before responding you switch over to 'sarcastic' mode and your response options are now: "Yeah, right, I'll be sure to keep that in mind," or "Oh really? You got me quakin' in my boots."

This could be done with a simple [SARCASTIC] before each possible sentence but then that would get very cluttered with skill-based responses and cut down on the number of cross-response possibilities. Also this opens up the option for different characters to respond better to different tones, like a noble lord preferring polite responses, a rough-and-tumble bruiser preferring people who are curt, and a bar maid preferring a bit of sarcastic wit. It could even be a bit more in-depth, requiring a bit of variety, too much of the same tone can backfire on you. If you're always sarcastic (or sarcastic about the wrong things), people will think you never take anything seriously. Always being polite would get you the reputation of a brown-noser in some people's eyes, etc. This would make the disposition game a bit more dynamic and interesting as well, while always having the neutral option be just that, one that won't affect it either way.

As for control, this could be controlled with WASD on PC and the d-pad on consoles.

I really don't think the issue with Oblivion's character creation was that it needed less options, as much as it needed some different options, and some changes to the existing ones. For example, take the "Eye Up/Down" slider. It didn't just make your eyes go up and down, it made your eyes smaller, closer together, and they'd also go down. If you tried to make your eyes closer together with the "Eyes Together/Apart", it would make them squeeze together on the outside and make your character look like a baby with a very round face, not move your eyes much closer together at all. And then there were the options like "Face Heavy/Light" that when you were heavier it made your eyebrows lower, your lips sink into your mouth, your chin jut out, your nose become longer, and the back of your head get bigger, which I know doesn't happen to people in real-life who put on a few pounds. When you made a character light, your lips become huge and stretched down towards your chin, your whole entire skull would become thinner, your ears folded back, your eyebrows raised, and your whole entire mouth/nose area resembled a http://www.uesp.net/w/images/images.new/f/f7/SI_Ravenous_Hunger.jpg.

What the character creation needed was options that didn't all effect each-other. I can understand if making the chin larger also made it jut out a bit more, but if you try to change the mouth and something starts to also happen with the eyes, it's very hard to make a character. I'm not saying we should have a set-up makes us create the "perfect" looking character every time, but it'd be nice if we had the option to with the default character creation.

In addition, I think that the options could extend to the body. When they make items, the item has to be made twice; one for males and one for females. If bodies could be morphed, a simple gender morph could be made as well, allowing for a single item to be made instead of two. This means even more options for customization, and saves time and data. Effectively, we could get twice the clothing choices.
Of course, textures might have to be separate since they're more realistic and not stylized.

Another idea from the Fable series that I think would go well in TES; dyes. In Fable, you could change your items' colors using dyes. Note, though, that this wasn't due to multiple textures. All the textures could be greyscale, and a secondary "color" aspect would change. Each texture that was used on an item could be changed; sleeves use one set of texture/color, and the torso uses one texture/color.

The combat in Morrowind and Daggerfall are definitely about dice rolls. Oblivion is the only hack and slash in the series, because it's combat style relies more on the skill of the player, than the character.

You say Oblivion wasn't dumbed-down, it was just simplified. But that's just semantics.

There were a lot more than less skills. There were less quests, not to make the game experience better, but just to fit in all the useless dialogue. There were less spells, not to make the game better, but to make up for laziness in the programming process i.e. cities that look like crap from above.

Less factions, not to make the game better, but, again, because they took up so much space on the disk because they felt the need to record every piece of dialogue. And recording dialogue resulted in less dialogue.

You can't sleep in owned beds anymore, the excuse for that is pure laziness.

It's true that they dumbed-down a lot to accommodate people who were too brain-dead to find Caius. But I feel the majority of the problems with Oblivion could have been avoided if they took their time and cared a little bit more.

The blame can be put mainly on the publishers, so I hope that the executives, and not just the devs have been reading these forums over the years. Executives, in general, are very out of tune with the public and underestimate our intelligence constantly.

Really, all our suggestions are for naught unless those executives from Zenimax are reading. Because Bethesda can hit Zenimax with all the logic in the world, nothing will alleviate their fear of "losing the sheeple's money" except seeing for themselves what the sheeple actually want.

And even if they do see what we want, they might be inclined not to believe us, if some random pie chart says something different.

[/rant] sorry, guys.

The label "hack and slash" was coined to describe a kind of roleplaying campaign following rulesets utilizing dice rolls. It means an RPG in which players do little more than fight monsters.

This so annoys me, I mean, how easy can it get?

1. Get instructions to go to the South wall in Balmora.
2. Go to the South Wall in Balmora.
3. Get EXACT instructions to Caius.
4. Go to Cauis' house.

The dialogue explaining Caius' whereabouts:

Old Caius rents a little bed-and-basket just up the hill on the north edge of town. Go out the front door -- NOT the upper door to the terrace -- then right up the stairs, then left at the top of the stairs and down to the end of the street.

That is as exact as can possibly be. I would have been fine with "go out the door, turn right, then turn left" what they gave us was more than satisfactory.


Anyways, I'd like to see pregenerated faces like Morrowind's come back. Whenever I pressed randomise in Oblivion, I'd always get the crappest looking face ever. I'd like to be able to choose from a variety of faces, and then be able to edit it with Oblivion style tools later on. This would stop my characters looking like crap. It could also be an easier solution to beards and tatooes.

Heck, I don't recall even getting directions from the South Wall because I never needed them. Highlighting doors and map notes told you who lived in each house before you'd even visited them. I just happened to check the map while wandering Balmora and "hey, there's his house."