Pessimism is self-defeating and cynicism is for teens. Leave them behind for things that make sense.


Yes, exactly, it's not like any of those things haven't been done before, so it's not like you need to spend months just working out how to program them. Hell, most of those were in previous TES games!

who wouldn't love to pillage a town drunk with a fat beard and a cape

i hope the infinite chest of oblivion stay ,it was a pain in morrowind to store stuff whit not abusing the infinite bodies.

And optimism is self-deluding.

It only leads to a more bitter and overwhelming pessimism in your old age. Have fun with that.

i agree it was also a huge pain to get in trouble for storing your goods in chest that didn't belong to you. you can put items in but when you take them out your stealing not cool

Especially if it's in Skyrim, and you really would probably be doing that for fun anyway. I mean, it'd be atmospheric if nothing else, a gigantic Nord with mead dripping still from his beard lighting things on fire and slaying townspeople left and right. I;m not usually into playing a villainous character, but having the option to do that would be interesting.

That makes sense actually.

It's like the episode of Seinfeld where George gets caught taking his own tip out of the tip jar.

Right, because sitting around and moping about how everything svcks is obviously more productive than trying and failing. I left it behind with my teenage stupidity once I hit twenty and never looked back. Pessimism is only a method of rationalization for those to lazy, cowardly or weak to try to do things that are difficult and unpleasant. Just ask Einstein.

Anyways, rather than argue whether reason and action is better than moping and wangsting, back to TESV!

As best I can tell it, the reason Morrowind "feels" larger than Oblivion even though Oblivion definitely does have more space is because Vvardenfell had little by way of flatlands beyond the grazelands and Bitter Coast, so you had to travel and pathfind. Obviously, this "fake size" trick could be used in Skyrim, being it's so mountainous. So if they wanted to, they could actually make Skyrim smaller and few people would be able to tell the difference.

If it's Skyrim (northern lands), then only the winter nights would be dark. Summer nights would not.

I've already said this on a previous thread, but I felt like I'd post it here and add a bit to see what you guys think:

Hmm, the way I imagine it, TESV should look a lot like a mix between Oblivion, Morrowind, and Mass Effect. Yes, Mass Effect. Sounds weird, but hear me out. I don't mean any specific features from it. I only mentioned it because it provides very good examples of RPG freedom and action physics. By RPG freedom, I simply mean more choices in quests. One of Oblivion's flaws (can't remember whether it was the same way with Morrowind) was that quests usually, save for very rare cases, only had one possible conclusion and I felt the game just too strongly pushed me to be a heroic type. Mass Effect let you play the MQ in whatever style you wanted, pretty much letting you be almost as much of a villain as the actual antagonist. However, Oblivion still beats Mass Effect by a long shot in the realm of freeforming. Mass Effect was just too confined I guess would be the right term. It's not very replayable at all. It'd take time, but as long as they give you more options in TESV while still being as freeform as it is, I'll be pleased.

On to my second Mass Effect example, action physics. Oblivion's combat style took a huge step in the right direction, but still can be improved upon. Whether or not you liked Morrowind more, and I'll admit it is better than Oblivion in some regards, Oblivion still had much better gameplay, as it felt just more intuitive. To improve upon that, there are some ideas shown well, although not pioneered by, Mass Effect. I only keep quoting this game because I've played it recently, but still... what I mean is it'd be much more fun with stuff like locational damage, as long as they keep some RPG elements. Headshots do more damage for example, but aren't necessarily lethal unless you're skill is high enough. Also, magic effects would be awesome. They are not impossible either. In ME2 you can actually freeze people and shatter them, or set them aflame and watch them panic. I've seen this happen in Oblivion to zombies but it can still improve. Anyways, it'd be nice to see burn marks on dead bodies if they aren't completely charred, or frost burns on those killed by frost spells that weren't frozen. Both this and locational damage can be taken even further. Elemental spells can work in different ways, like frost traveling slower than fire but slowing enemies down or freezing them eventually if they are strong enough or the enemy weak enough. Lightning spells can be faster, have a possibility of stunning an enemy for a very short time, and travel in one continuous bolt from your fingertips, but be more expensive.

As for locational damage, aside from headshots/hits being more damaging, there could be stuff like if you hit a guy in a leg and are skilled enough, they slow down for some time until they recover or are healed. If you successfully hit a guy in an arm with enough skill, his attacks or blocks, depending on which arm you hit, come slower until healed or recovered. This way, combat, both magical and physical, are much more fun and intuitive, yet you still don't completely lose that RPG feel. Which reminds me, it'd be important to tone level-scaling way the hell down. I was often wary of leveling up for fear of my better spells becoming pointless as the enemy got better.

My last idea was that enemies, in addition to being more varied, should feel more nuanced from each other rather than generic monsters with different stats. For example, take trolls, which are vulnerable to fire, and perhaps make them actually fear fire if nothing else. While they'll charge you no matter how strong you are, if you're wielding a torch or are standing next to a campfire, they'll be more wary if they don't retreat into darkness immediately. A lot of stuff like that would leave a lasting impression, as long as it happened often enough. One thing that was bad about Oblivion was that the traps, while cool in their own right, eventually got boring because they got rarer and whatnot. In the first dungeon you get a cool load of traps you can even turn on the enemies, but from then on when you do see a trap, it's usually less interesting and they are often limited to one per dungeon. Though I'll admit I giggled like a little schoolgirl when last night I was fighting an epic duel with a flame atronach when it backed right into a "spike jutting from wall" trap and died.

Yes, yes... what a brilliant idea come to think of it. Not being sarcastic, that just led my mind to somewhere good. Expanding upon your post, the game should just make everything more visceral, more intense. Darker nights, brighter lights, ambient nature like you said. Adds much to immersion. Beyond that, louder and sharper thunder. I was playing Morrowind recently once and it might've been some graphics mod or something that caused it, but when the thunder struck, the noise just blew me away. Made me jump. Also, the brightness of the lightning piercing the dark-as-hell night also wowed me. More of that. Going even further, more intense and visceral combat noises and effects, like I said. Same with magic. More choices in more missions. More life in cities and towns. Etc, you could just go on forever listing the things they need to up the intensity on.

Exactly. Your suggestions also add atmosphere to the game. Another thing to do to add atmosphere in nature, is to add some fireflies at night, twinkling in the distance.

As often as we put graphics as a priority for increasing the atmosphere and immersion of the environment, we also must not forget sound. It's half and half really in my opinion. Sound is JUST as important as the graphics.

I have to disagree. For the most part, the "RPG Freedom" in Mass Effect is completely superficial. Just as important as the choice is the consequence that comes after it, and in ME, there are very few. Those options generally come in two forms; in the middle of the quest, which is almost always just a way to glean paragon/renegade points and has no effect on anything, and at the end of the quest, which determines its outcome regardless of what you did before. Here, the consequence is dulled by the fact that you're likely never coming back to the place and will never experience any part of the outcome. It's like a gameshow giving you the option of keeping winnings or trading them for what's behind the door, except you don't get to actually keep either so who cares. Most of the choices are simply dialogue options, and while it's good to be able to choose your reactions, these conversations never change anything. It's not so much rpg freedom as rpg presentation.

A good example of a far-reaching consequence, both what to do right and what is done wrong, is a quest from Dragon Age. In it a town is under attack by the undead, and when asked to help defend it, you can agree or deny the request. If you say no, when you return, the place will be empty, because nearly everyone has been killed. This is a place you will likely return to more than once, and while some stragglers and refugees and scavengers trickle in and start to rebuild, you never have the same town or people again. The place is dead, by your inaction.

What's done wrong, however, is the sheer amount of nothing produced by this. It gets right the consequences of choice in an RPG, but messes up in terms of this being a game. By not helping the town you lose out on a ton of precious experience, as well as many quests. You never get back any of them. While the game should stick to its guns with consequences, it should not make you lose large amounts of content. The dead town could have been the focus of quests about people moving in, criminals trying to take over, construction efforts, you trying to take over, investigations by royal authorities, and so on. Maybe your main goal in being there could have been aided by your not wasting the time and effort, which is partly why someone would refuse in the first place. Many of the quests lost aren't even tied to the town; they come from quest givers who don't even appear there until after the undead are driven off, and are simply delivering quests from larger organizations, so losing access to them makes no sense.

I'd love to see horses done with the same detail Read Dead Redemption has done them. They truly are beautiful in the game. Their movements are perfect. Oblivion horses were clunky, slow, and generally annoying for me to deal with.

Take another cue from Read Dead Redemption and put in random encounters. They really add to the atmosphere of the game. I love it when I come into town and a posse goes down the street shooting their guns and hooping and hollering, or when I'm riding and a stranger gets attacked by coyotes. People camping in the wilderness will call you over to have a talk. hokers getting stabbed to death outside the saloons. People's horses getting stolen. People getting in fist fights. Random shoot outs.

And in all of this, certain NPCs still live without being essential. For example, the NPCs that frequent the gambling tables throughout the game are not essential at all, yet not one has died so far. If you kill them, they do not come back. It seems essential NPCs are required, some creativity is simply needed.

People speak of Oblivion being alive. Compared to Read Dead Redemption, I think it pales.

In hindsight, yes, you are right. Dragon Age might be a better example, but I never played it however.



Well, Red Dead is more recent. Cut Oblivion some slack. Anyways, NPCs do come back. I've lost track of how many times I've killed people at the gambling tables, Herbert Moon in particular. Damn Herbert Moon... anyways, yes you are right about Horses though. Red Dead pulled horses off way better and is the perfect example of how to make it so that fast travel never feels necessary. Not only were horses smoother and whatnot, but the world, without even having all the varying landcapes and fantastic details a fantasy setting like TES could offer, still felt so alive with the people and nature itself having an effect. Especially cougars. Damn cougars...

This has probably been suggested before, but if it hasn't:

ES V should have a feature of viewing save games like in Dragon Age: Origins (speaking for Xbox).

That is, game file should be like this:

-- Character 1
----- save 1
----- save 2
----- save 3
-- Character 2
----- save 1
----- save 2
----- save 3
etc...

Instead of the way it was in ES IV, which was this:

Save 1 Character 1
Save 2 Character 1
Save 1 Character 2
Save 3 Character 1
Save 2 Character 2
Save 3 Character 2

Where the only way those were organized was by the modern date date and time they were saved.

Bye

It would just be easier if we could name all the saves. That way, if we're unsure about particular files, we can cite specifics on when/where/what the file was. Better than going by memory using dates, especially when the console doesn't feel like keeping track of proper dates & times.

Naming would be nice too, but have you used the Dragon Age System? Its so handy.

I missed that feature from Morrowind sooo much. When I started playing it against last year or so, despite being an ardent Oblivion fan, I almost wanted to cry tears of joy when I came across the old named saves instead of "Save 254". The numbering every last friggin' save you ever do is a bit annoying.

Yea it would be nice if the saves would have auto numeration but you could also write your own name for it.
The save file itself could hold some useful info too, like the real time and day you saved at, maybe what day in game it is and so on.

QFT +1000. Organizing savegames by character is so simple, brilliant, and useful that it's shocking it took this long for someone to think of it.

I think that the criminal justice system needs some new improvements.

- The time spent in jail should be based on the amount of evidence and number of witnesses.
- Guards are not psychic, if all witnesses are killed, you will lose your bounty for the time being.
- Bounties should be assigned by the county. For example, in Cyrodiil, a crime committed in County Anvil will gain you a bounty there, but not in County Leyawiin. Over time, the bounty will spread to the adjacent counties.
- There are 5 levels of awareness the guards of a certain county will be at. In the first level, guards have a 20% chance of recognizing and pursuing you. Second level, you will not be admitted to any inns and guards have a 30% chance of recognizing you. Third level, you won't be able to use inns or shops and guards have a 50% chance of noticing you. Fourth level, any citizen with a moderate to high responsibility will report you upon sight, guards have a 80% chance of noticing you. Fifth level, guards will relentlessly pursue you, citizens with high responsibility will attack you.
- When caught by a guard you should have the options, Plead Guilty, Plead Innocent (Court), Pay Fine, Resist Arrest.
- If you choose "Plead Guilty", you will serve the minimum sentence and go immediately to jail.
- If you choose "Plead Innocent", you will be tried by the court. You have a chance at innocence, depending on the amount of witnesses and evidence (eg. Stolen Items). If you are found guilty, you will serve the maximum sentence. A crime committed against a beggar will be easier to evade punishment than a well respected noble. You can also use bribes to lower your chances of conviction.

Sounds good to me.


I like this. It may need some tweaks with those percentages.

I'd like to see an animation for the guards overpowering someone and taking them to jail. The person is getting dragged to jail, and townspeople are reacting to what's happening. They react some more when the person is put in the stocks.

Ah yes, I rather liked the witness system in Red Dead Redemption. It worked pretty well and was realistic enough not to be annoying. Also, I liked how if you were evil enough in that game no citizens would report you to the authorities for anything short of murder. Assuming because they realize you will kill them if they try. For example, if you're evil enough, as long as no sheriff is watching you can just smash the windows of a bank, take the loot, and walk out the front door $200+ richer and nobody will care.

I agree 100%, Biowares style of save files is so much more organizer then, well, that chaos in Oblvion.