Fine, but if Oblivion had no memorable moments, I don't see how TES V will be any better. What makes a memorable moment if not

My point is merely, "if that wasn't interesting, what is?" Telling the devs to put in more memorable moments while ignoring that's what they have been doing and basically only saying "like Morrowind" doesn't seem to really tell the devs much.

Please do not jump into conclusion that when some other people do not see your beloved one's greatness, they are bashing her, because they can also say that you do not see her faults, because you love her so blindly.

For a lot of us, oblivion is to fast paced, and action based, to let us be drawn into the scenery, so that small or big interesting things catch our eyes, and as for the general feeling of the whole game, it can not be compared with morrowind's intriguing and unnatural atmosphere with the pace that is exactly what most of us enjoy, and has a great back story, intrigue, and political cold war, and so on...

I'm not going to blame the decision to make every single sentence voice acted, for the whole problems, but I think that was a really bad move.

As for the things that he did not see in oblivion and you listed above, most of them I did not see either, because I just jumped around with fast travel to complete fast paced quests and faster paced fights, and the whole scenery was not intriguing enough for me to draw my eyes from the compass marks that I followed almost blindly to reach the target, except to fight the too numerous monsters and critters that jumped on me every ten pace, and so on...

Too fast paced to be drawn into, and see those details, IMHO.

Okay, okay, let's just all make amends with each other and comment on my previous post, huh?

Only Dragon I've read about is J?rmungandur. Are there more?


As seen in a TES3 quest.


Since TES5 is propably in the making, TES4 needs to be bashed to remind them that the fanbase doesn't want streamlined, non-challenging stuff. But if you want, I can bash TES3 for a change? I got a huge list of things that got worse after TES2 and BS.

Blind? No, not blind. I hate the leveling system and I hate the item-scaling system. I hate the Mages Guild initiation quests, I hate the minigames, and I hate the lack of political conflict in the main quest. My eyes were fully open when I saw Cyrodiil and its beauty. If you've never seen that stuff, then again, that is the complaint of someone who's never played the game. If you are looking for that stuff in a game, than go find it now, as you've pretty much declared you haven't seen them before. Before you bash a game, play it. It's not Bethesda's fault if you claim to want this stuff and ignore when its right there. If you want to explore, explore. Otherwise, you obviously don't care about exploration. I use fast-travel. That doesn't mean I can't wonder what I'll find out in the wilderness and go looking for it.

Well, in order to even use fast travel, you have to have been to that location before. In the beginning of Oblivion you can only travel to the major cities, but if there was a quest where you had to go to some faraway cave, you had to run there. Regardless of how amazing one would think of a game's landscape, there are those who aren't concerned by it and would rather get where they'd need to go. They shouldn't be punished for that by having to find a specific person and pay a fee, but that isn't to say there shouldn't be any alternatives at all.
Plus, for anyone to even want to walk, the landscape shouldn't get boring after the first three minutes.

You are not getting my point.

At first I just loved the new scenery, the greatly enhanced visuals, HDR and the like.

I even made a mod to help me more into the game and believe it or not, it was called "Pure Immersion", and it would relieve me from power-gaming to gain those 5-5-5 attributes in the level-ups, and let me more into the game.

But the pace was fast, and in this game, Bethesda had pit a lot of force into aspects that would draw me out of the game, like:

Providing fast travel which one would use if walking had lost it's draw because of similar landscapes and lots of fast paced, but ultimately unrewarding fights that would not let us enjoy the scenery if we could.

In Morrowind every place seamed a bit different from the previous place, you could walk around and watch a bit before the next encounter, but on the other hand, you had to be on guard and watch your surrounding with care, because you might encounter a fight that would prove too much for your health.

In oblivion all the land leveled with you, so fights would gradually lose their thrilling aspects, and also they were so numerous that would not let you enjoy the scenery, which was no big matter, because those did not change a lot, and had nothing new.

In Morrowind, you had to constantly look around to catch the probable high level item that you might find lying in a corner, and those were real treasures to find, but in Oblivion, after a few high level bandits, you would lose interest in further fights because you had all the items you needed, and those fight were always the same difficulty and would show their repeating aspects.

But those fights were relentless and face paced, so they would finally push you toward the much debated fast travel.

In morrowind you had to look around for clues to find your target cave, person or item, but in oblivion you could just follow the arrow and reach the place with no problem, so as I said before, the atmosphere was lacking, and the scenery did not change enough to warrant more focused look around after a few play-troughs, so you looked more and more into that compass which was ready for usage, and finally reached a point that you did not bother to look up much.

I do not say that Oblivion had not its moments, like dream world and the like, but those were mostly deep in the specific quests that when you played though them a few times and knew the end of the story would not draw you to them to see those places, so they were out.

But Morrowind's interesting aspects were day to day happenings like some of the the dreamy and haunting call of those silth-striders that we could here from a distance, or the fact that people did not like an outsider like you at first but you had to charm you way into their hearts, or those giant mushrooms that with high enough acrobatics, you could jump from one to another, like a dream, and so on...

I'm not saying that oblivion is a bad game, but you can not call that a game that you could be drawn into for long, and if you say that I have not played that, you are wrong, because I have played that for hundreds of hours trying different character to role-play, and gradually lost my interest because those problematic aspects pushed me gradually out of that world.

You know, these games are called role-playing games because we want to role-play in them, not just jump in and do some hack and slash action with quests, and feel good, and jump out.

Oblivion might have some actions and complex quests, but is not a world that would draw you in and lets you sink to the depth of the scenery and story to feel one with, and look around and enjoy the feeling, as I did in Morrowind, so don't blame us if we miss some aspect of the game that you think interesting.

I've had a system in mind for some time. I feel it's time to share it again. Been some time:

I feel that we should completely go back to Morrowind's method. We have some local version of a Stilt Strider, Boats and Mage's Guild teleportation. I would either have to walk everywhere, or use one of these methods.

This would be accompanied by a teleportation spell. This would work like Oblivion/Fallout, and allow to to travel somewhere found before on each cast. This would be in scroll/spell form. The scrolls would be in good supply at pretty much every town, and would cost enough to warrent using other methods, but would be affordable for those who want to get straight to the action. There would also be an item for sale, perhaps some magical stone/rune, that would give me a similar method to Fable. I could use the stone and teleport to any known location. This would be for those who don't use magic. The ston would be a permanent alternative to scrolls. It would cost a few shiny pennies.

I would also like to see Mark/Recall return (cheaper than the spell version of above), and a spell that allows me to teleport to the major cities.

I feel that everyone is happy here. Being a Morrowind fan, I know I'm happy, and I feel it solves the "getting straight to where I need to be" problem Oblivion fans seem to have.



Amen.

My suggestion.....make the game more violent. Melee fighting is the most brutal combat, and Oblivion was a little to clean. Taking limbs off, and actually stabbing someone, or when you kill someone with a fireball they have burn marks on them and are a little scorched, etc etc.

I can deal without it, but it would be a nice touch.

But that would still be a bother. What if I don't want to spend any gold at all on scrolls or stones, I don't use magic, and I just got out of a cave 80 miles from the nearest town? You're still punishing those who want to travel by different means based upon their personal preferences. If there was a reasonable alternative, like yours, then there would be no temptation to use fast travel, but those who want use it, still have the option.


Make it toggleable. When I'm attacked and fight back with my fists I don't go for kill shots, I go for disabling shots. Since that is irritatingly not an option as of yet I don't want my punch to decapitate a mugger.
Also, I couldn't see someone, for a finishing blow, do a light slash and cut someones body in half. Perhaps if they used a power attack, but other then that, nope.

This is why they aren't priced so much as to be a nuisance. They are only priced enough to ward me away from it. Perhaps around 100 gold. This is hardly anything, at all. And I doubt anyone has trouble earning a few hundred gold. (If the economy gets fixed, it would, of course, be a different price, but to the same effect)

Perhaps it could even level with the player? Up to, say, 1000 gold? I could buy them for around 50 gold each at level 1, and buy them for around 500 gold at level 10. Once I get them to 1000 gold, they'd stop leveling. Extremly ridiculous to be much more.

Remember, eventually, I'll be able to buy the "rune/stone" thing I mentioned earlier, for around... 2000 gold? Perhaps this too levels with the player?

(levelling can work fine. Just because Oblivion messed up with it...)

But still, what if I'm not magical, not divine in any way whatsoever, relying instead on my blade, cunning, and might, and I don't want anything to do with your stone? I'd be fine with it being an option, but just leave the fast travel be.

EDIT: Oh, I guess that 1k gold thing you were talking about was what sounds like a single-use scroll. My Argonian just earned his first 10k. Great, I can buy 10 fast travels! The stone should be much more expensive.
For 1k gold you can get a measly 1 travel.
If you svck it up and get 2k you get, what, infinite fast travels? Or would this degrade over time?

Then stop being so spoilt, and allow the rest of the fanbase to enjoy the game as they've seen it. I can honestly say, I see no real downside to my suggestion. I believe you're just nitpicking because it isn't exactly how you want it. Let me tell you, it isn't exactly how I want the game to be, either. I'm willing to comprimise. When you aren't willing to do so, you can't properly debate about a feature like fast travel.

While a comprimise may not serve everyone 100%, it is, by far, the best option I can see for Bethesda.


I'm no professional. The prices may vary. It will pretty much be a good price for any level. Not too much to be stupid, not too little to be virtually the only choice.

This stone, I would think, would give unlimited fast travel access. Perhaps it would degrade, whatever the Oblivion fans prefer.

Then you should be able to rely on your own two feet also.

I'm just trying to point out any possible holes in your case. My main point was that your ideas are perfectly fine, if not better than most suggestions, but fast travel would still be an option. Sure, I'd be willing to buy your under-priced stone, but there are those times when you need to rely on fast travel.


That takes too long, and it isn't rewarding, as the landscape gets old. That is the whole basis of the argument, I think.

EDIT: And, I have another idea, this time on object placement. Why is it so hard to get a tan jug to stand up right? I swear I spent like 15 minutes trying to stand one up. And it wasn't even in my own house. Perhaps there could be like a decoration mode or something, that allows you to rotate and move objects in your house. Something like the TES construction set.

I think if something like what Hircine was describing, where you have to work until you can get something (like a runestone, scrolls, or spells) to fast travel with than it would become rewarding.

Or, get this, you wouldn't have to go out of your way to do any of that, but instead, you could get straight to the action using the, guys, guys, you watching? The FAST TRAVEL BUTTON!!! (aaaaahaahhaaahaahah)(and the crowd goes wild)(aaaahaaahaahahahhhaaah) *with other's ideas* NOW ONLY $9.95 (boooooo)

I'm sorry for not seeing eye to eye with everyone? :shrug:

but thank you Sphagne, you hit the nail on the head. Sure some things were cool, but it's like Assassin's Creed. When you kill a target, it's great in the moment, but then I just sorta move on.

Yeah wouldn't it also be cool if we had something like... hmm.... Fast combat? Yeah fast combat! You know when you come upon an enemy your just too sick of fighting, well look no further! Just click a button and it's done!

I could really only take the fast travel argument more seriously if there was at least some consequences to fast traveling, even like the way it was in Daggerfall was better than Oblivion.

All need to be done is making fast travel button menu not accessible easily for new comers.

• Hide the menu under some long menu procedures.
  
• Don't encourage the player to use it.
  
• Fill the game world with random encounters and content.
  
• Have something interesting just around the corner.
  
• Make the fast travel take some time, even if it is artificial.
  
• Have alternatives, good alternatives to fast travel, fast mounts and transportations options sea, air, land, teleportation...

I don't find forcing players to use magic to mimic fast travel is a good option. Just Cause 2 is a good example for not encouraged fast travel. It is also 25 times larger than Oblivion.

When there are consequences, bad ones, for doing stuff like that, people tend to not want to do it.

It may be an E Rated (meaning Everyone is able to play it) game, but Animal Crossing had a good example of consequences for taking the easy way out. If you turned off your game without saving (if you made a mistake in that game, it was permanent), you got the dreaded Mr. Ressetti. He was a jerk, and there wasn't much getting past that. He'd make you manually type in the message "I'm sorry, I'll never cheat again." and only show it to you in one quick textbox, he'd spend literally 10 minutes on a rant about how you shouldn't reset. He'd make you feel terrible by saying it made his life a living nightmare every time you turned off your game and cheated.

In my personal opinion, it shouldn't be restricted. I'm not saying this for my own reasons, because I prefer to walk along the road and discover everything, but some people just like to run through things. If you don't like fast travel and want to discipline yourself for using it, then do just that. It's just a matter of self control.

Lore-wise, that doesn't make sense. When you're keeping an effect going, you're spending energy on it. It has to break eventually. They should rather make it so it breaks when you don't have enough magicka to keep it going (meaning duration spells would constantly drain), or the way it works now where you're set at a specific duration for the spell.

Lore also talks about how people have to be constantly keeping focus, and that eventually they lose the spell, so that has something to do with it too.

---

Sorry for the double post... I thought somebody would have posted by now.

I think that the key things are:

? Provide viable and exciting new alternatives to fast travel
—? Water travel ~ rafts, ferries, ships, etc.
—? Cheap, fast land transport ~ carriages, caravans, wagons, etc.
—? Improved horses ~ more fluid, responsive, better controls, better animations. Basically something that can compete with RDR...
—? More mounts ~ only if they make sense in terms of lore/setting, so I dunno if there are really any good options but I'm not a lore expert

? Give incentives to players who avoid using fast travel
—? Random encounters/events that can occur on pathways and in the wilderness, offering rewards as items, money, fame, new NPC's, etc.
—? Plant more set loot in the overworld to encourage players to explore
—? Make the game world vibrant, exotic, and immersive (not too worried about this one)
—? Perhaps give access to certain perks for players who spend a certain amount of time walking/running outside of settlements

? Have consequences for players who rely on fast travel too much
—? Only allow fast travel to major settlements and waypoints, rather than every discovered location
—? Have a chance of losing items/money to an ambush while fast traveling
—? As walking/running/swimming raise Athletics, make it so that fast travelers who avoid these activities lose experience in Athletics
—? Perhaps make it cost money to use fast travel, like the scroll/stone idea suggested recently
—? Make fast travel less accessible from the menu


I think people tend to respond better to positive reinforcement, so benefits and rewards for people who avoid fast travel will work better than punishments against those who do fast travel a lot... And in the end I think people should have the right to fast travel if they really want to, but I think Beth should make it easier for people not to, and they should reward those players more.

this sounds realy nice and it would bee nice to be a merchant with diferent placeses with difrent prices a real econemy and you can ask a merchant in a remote vilage what he is short on and buy it realy cheap somewhere else and sellit high when you get back to a vilage and make it realistic where you cane make wepons cloths armor and more stuff and having pack horses andd guards and being ambushed for your wares


also if you dont want to be a merchant put your things on your private manor gurded by ferocios well paid gurds and become a caravan gurd beter job you do more pay and the longer it is more pay and its live traval while you walk in line somewhere or ride near on a horse



and i always thought it was realy dumn to have no horse combat horses were used in war in real life some nations would not have survied or become huge like the timurids the turks or the mongols or the egyptions or alexander the great i could go on but we realy need horse combat to make it more realistc and fun

definitly a large craft sysystum with mining so you can make your own armor nd wepons than buy a few shops hire people and make them give you your monthly profit and they take their pay out of it first to make it simple and give there a posibility for them to rob you when you arnt around and you needing guards


and make it so we can buy slaves like some new race that is very unintelegent and our slaves give us profit with mining for us and farming and manual labor and make their be a posibility for escape and us needing to hire people (when i mean hire people people who come to us with the needed skills and we equip them but still get a large profit after all expeces) and let there be bounty quests wher ewhen we have a high enough fame or imfamy people will try to higher us to trk people down and give us the bounty or do less good jobs depending on wheather we are good or evil and the chance of a good job when your evil is smaller and the chance of a evil job when you are good is smaller bet never not there for both that whey we dont become 100 percent evil or good if we want to turn around



and let the fast traval be regesterd to let us go anywhere and multiple forms of transportation in each place and the smallest places will only have a small boat or wagon or carege depending on the wealth of the place like hay wagons or regular wagons or beuitifull crages at big citys my main poit is on this topic let us traval anywhere like a tiny boat man can take us to the other side of the provence just to make things more simple and pratical for us you would think they would take us anywhere for the price



and definetly bring back spears and let wepons just outomaticly stab depending on the wepon ther will be a larger likelyhood like a 2 handed mace would never stab and a dager would stabe most of the time i men its redicules not stabing but not the systm like in morrowind running forward with a mace or ax and stabing is rediculess


and more types of mounts and let all mounts of the same typ of animal have the same basic speed and strength and price just pay go out intoo the feild and mount the one you like and take it to get sadle bags armor and a sadle and the sadlebags can carry more or less depeding n the armor of the horse heavyer armor means less bag room cus of weight lighter armor means more bag space and no armor means max bag space and let there be like 10 diferent armor typs in diferent collors also add a bedrooll to the sadle and aloww horses to swim faster and how much depending on bag space and armor weight

also portable camps and let us hire assasins from the darkbrotherhood or mercanarys and let there be a sembelece of leadership in guilds with like 10 quests whene your the leader


and capes and cloaks it is ral people used them to blend in with the wilderness and to keep warm or cool and to help protect them from sand


and let you get wet from water


i agree with this guys points i just wanted to add onto them

Ok ur not magical yet u use a fast travel system that "magically" places you a distance away with time "magically" passing and not have you encounter anything in between? yea, explain that to me.... Fast Travel is like a magical teleporter that takes a while to get u there. So if u want to be truly non magical walk, otherwise i say the scrolls are a great idea.


Hahaha oh man that sounds funny. I'd say have that but i would get really pissed off at him

Anyway for my idea, i think gold should be much more valuable, and have copper and silver coins as well, so you dont ahve to carry around 50000 gold coins to get armor, but maybe only 500, so picking up 5 gold from a chest might be seen as a worthwile theivery instead of every chest having 5g and its like wow great not even going to bother picking that up its not worth the effort, this way gold could have weight without it being very low and unrealistic or realistic and not be able to buy some bread from the inn because the golds too heavy.