I would love knockouts and unlethal combat. I've always wanted to play a character that doesn't kill everyone he sees. It would be cool to infiltrate a stronghold as an assassin and knock out guards to get to your target.

I was making this for the Game Start thread, but it was closed before I finished.

There was a bit of a debate on the "prison intro", so here is my piece.

Technically, Morrowind wasn't a prison intro. The only time "Prison" was stated was in Azuras opening speach. "They have taken you from the imperial prison....", thats how I think it goes.
Morrowinds really a deporting criminal intro.

One more thing, being a criminal means you have infamy/possible forced backround. Your crime could of been the Murdering of a count. So for TES 5, you should be a slave. Possibly on slave trading ship. Being a slave eliminates ANY famous/infamous backround. You could have been taken as a POW(Prisoner of War), poor unlucky soul, even a prisoner, etc.
The optional tutorial begins with you talking with other slaves. The pirates push you and the other slaves around, and how you react to this determines your recomended class.
Then one of to things happens. The ship is hit by a storm. (normal game begins)You wake up on a beach there may be a few survivors, one talks to you. He tells you of where you are and stuff. You can travel with him to the nearest city or go off on you own.
The other thing is that an imperial ship attacks the pirates. There is a bit of fighting. Then you and the other slaves are free. The imperials take you to a nearby port and (normal game begins)you are free to go(after a bit of dialogue).

I'm too strong to become a slave. If I were to wake up as a slave, I would instantly rebel, no questions asked.

Plus, I'm an assassin. It's pretty hard to catch one of them, ya know.

That's why I'd recommend a "waking up nearly dead" start personally like after being washed ashore after a shipwreck. You wouldn't be in great physical condition due to drifting out on sea, near starvation, possibly sick and injured. It would make sense that even if you had something worked up before you'd be more a vegetable when you get washed ashore and wake up. The area you start out in could very well serve as a tutorial field, if you get "killed" in that tutorial you wake up again a while afterwards in someones house who found you and took you in.

Alternatively I made a suggestion once that you could have different beginnings depending on how you created your character, this was combined with the possibility of writing your "past" and the game then basing your stats, attributes and condition on what you chose. If you for example started out with a long criminal record the game could actually start out with you being led off a boat in chains to be set free in another country ("You're their problem now") or getting put in jail again right away and having to get out of there some way (breaking out, bribing your way out or sit out your punishment).

Interesting, I like it

By the way, I have one more idea before I go. It's about chameleon. It doesn't mater if you're at 1 or 100 chameleon, you're completely invisible, yet enemies can still see you. I'd suggest that you become more camouflaged/invisible the more points you have. For example, if you have 5 points, you'd be a small bit see-through. Not a whole lot, but a little. At 100, almost nothing will see you. The only visible thing would be a faint outline, like with a real chameleon. However, if you pick something up, someone will see you, however the spell will still be active and won't wear off, like invisibility.

Another thing before I forget. They need to change it so you aren't being pursued by the guards every time you attack them. What I mean is sometimes you and a gaurd will be fighting someone but you accidentally attack them and he wants to arrest you! There needs to be something where the game knows you aren't meaning to cause damage to another friendly npc.

Maybe this could be done if there's a "physics" based combat system that actually takes force of attacks into account rather than just a damage number assigned to the weapon. When you don't hit someone full force but just scraping them or hit with the end of a swing they would only take minor damage thus may just saying "hey, watch out". Of course it also depends how much they "trust" or like you, if they have high trust they would even maybe excuse a harder hit, if they don't you can expect them to get angry at a scraqe.

I don't want to start the game coming out of someone's womb (Fallout 3, Assassin's Creed 2). Just give us a character sheet. I don't need a plastic roman asking me what race I am, or an emperor asking "What's your sign, man?". Just make a character creation sheet that doesn't include birthsigns.

Well here's another idea, you could start out in a room or the cabin of a ship (going along with the shipwreck scenario). There you have a mirror (lets you create your characters race and looks) and a journal (your attributes, skills, your "past" if you want that and further details). When you're done there you simply click the bed and go to rest, a bad storm comes up and you awake who knows how many days later among rubble flushed ashore. Quick character creation, stays in person, no people asking you stuff or having to wait through long text passages, and another advantage the character creation doesn't just end when you click "OK" it ends when you want to so you could always make a character, save the game and then re-edit again. That way you can experiment much better with different looks or how you set up your characters stats/past.

The part at the shore would then be your test run, this could be ended quickly too if you just want to get to the game, you could decide to chose "wait for help" or if you get killed during the tutorial and you awake again in the bed of someone who found you and took you in.

If they could combine the combat system (and elaborate on it) of Mount & Blade http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1113609-a-whole-new-combat-style-would-this-be-possible/page__view__findpost__p__16339990 with the physics, climbing and crowd engine of Assassins Creed 2, while giving it the flavor of Morrowind (ie. the outlandishness, fantastical feel) that would make for an awesome game.

ps. If you haven't already watched the youtube video regarding games and moral choice in Daniel_Kay's link - do so. It's thought provoking!

Being a Lich:

Since this topic has come up again I might as well throw expand on my previous suggestion a bit.
I would want more than just having a few stats altered when you become one. It should really affect how the game plays.
I don't really know how the process of becoming a lich works in TES so this is based on a few assumptions and I'll just give some general idea about how the game changes.

First off your body and soul are separated when you performed the ritual, your body then is more or less just a remote controlled puppet while your soul remains in a “soul jar”. You can also have more than one host body but only control one at the time while the others are inactive. This could allow you to have a assortment of different bodies with different abilities.
When not in your body you could still roam your lair in ghost form but your range would be somewhat limited around the location of your soul jar, of course with a body you could also move it to a new location.

Your magical abilities wouldn't be instantly increased, they could in fact be damaged by the transformation, however their maximum capacity from that point on is much larger, maybe more than twice as much as normal or, hell, even “infinitely” expandable.
As for physical attributes, those would be determined by your host body, it would be undead however so it suffers a few drawbacks. For one injures would probably not heal on their own anymore, wounds always have to be patched up or healed magically. Second is if you don't keep up a good illusion people will notice you're undead and possibly try to kill you. While masquerading your powers would be in constant use so you're not a uber powerful mage while doing that. However when dropping it you could rain some serious magic again, so you don't necessarily need it when going on a dungeon crawl.
Also you could have entrusted people who even don't attack you if you don't hide your “undeadness” from them, after all being a lich doesn't mean you have to be stupid-evil all the time (can play a good benevolent guy too after all).
Another drawback is that undead bodies would not gain skills or attributes as fast, if at all. But they could be magically upgraded permanently, make a host body that's a muscled behemoth if you need some serious power, make a sleek and agile thief body for stealthy stuff and so on.
Your host bodies would likely also limit your magical abilities quite a bit but you'd still have enormous powers.

If a host body is killed you lose control over it and return to your soul jar, however if you act fast enough you could still salvage it with another body, go in and either try to take this body back to your lair (would be a smart move to make something that automatically teleports a body back once it's killed), or if you don't want it anymore just raid it for the stuff it was carrying and return.
Also you could possibly learn possessing someone, you have some control over their bodies but possibly only a limited amount of time, maybe till your magica runs out and you either return to the jar or your previous host body.

Of course while you're immortal that way it could still happen that you're “slain”. If you play Evilguy McNasty you can be sure there will be people trying to bring you down. They could actively try to hunt down your host bodies and destroy one by one till you run out and need to make new ones from scratch or even try to track down your soul jar and destroy it.
If that happens you better have good reinforcements in your lair or be prepared, if your soul jar is taken it can be destroyed effectively killing or imprisoning you.

However summoning undead creatures could be easier as a lich so you could very well build up a small army to guard you. Summoned creatures should not just disappear after a set time (generally, not just for lichs) but Lichs could have the advantage of being much more fluent of what they can do, like increase the strength or speed of a summoned creature.


Like this you could have some good pros and cons about playing as a Lich without making the immortality too overpowered. You still have to look out for your host bodies so they don't get destroyed and with that some work to make them. You can't be killed normally but you should still have a eye on your soul jar (maybe have a lair that's really hard to reach or enough guardians). While in disguise you're just a pretty average person but can kick some serious behind while unmasked.


PS: If my assumption about how a lich work is drastically off from TES lore feel free to update me on it, but this could be a working method for it.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Path_of_Transcendence

Too late in the evening for me to go deep into lichery at the moment, but I'll just emphasize that I want this to be a bigger deal for any "transformation" sort of event. Vampire, lycanthrope, lich, whatever. There should be fundamental changes, not just a new character model and some stat buffs that could just as easily be gained with equipment and spells. Things like boosts to "invisible" abilities you don't normally change, like a werewolf increasing bashing or lift/throw limits, beyond any boosts to strength. Imagine the extra feel of savagery from a werewolf if it ripped through the door, tore a resident's throat out, and hurled their corpse across the room with enough force to shatter furniture.

Hehe well then maybe give it a look when you're more awake again because I did suggest it to really be different than just a few stats altered.


Simulating different abilities:

I have been thinking about how different physical abilities could be simulated in game. For example you can't simulate better eyesight with giving you a longer view distance, that both wouldn't work out from a technical standpoint and from “fairness”, giving you a shorter maximum view distance despite being able to run more.

But here are a few ideas how those could work:

Better eyes sight:
You can have a natural “zooming” ability, this could greatly help archers.

Better sense of smell:
You can “test” the air giving you a good indication who/what is around in your near area. Could also tell fresh from stale or rotten ingredients apart better.

Better hearing:
A directional microphone like effect, you can spy on people from a distance. Could also hear things through walls easier.

Claws:
You can use them in combat to cause slashes but also allows you to easier climb rough or soft surfaces like walls with large cracks or wood.

Better sense of taste:
Eating ingredients for potions could give you an idea of their effects faster.


In the same breath I could also suggest I don't really like giving the different races a skill boost, I'd really much rather see them have different attribute modifiers (like orks and nords are able to gain muscle faster, high elves and bretons can gain intelligence faster etc.). Your skills could be fully determined by what YOU set in the beginning or your “past entires” during character creation but there could be light modifiers for your chosen race too. That way it wouldn't railroad you as much from the beginning but still gives a few directions which race has more natural abilities to fit into what line of development.
Additionally with the above mentioned simulated abilities it could explain better why which race is better at certain things. A Bosmer for example wouldn't naturally have a better ability to shoot a bow, but they have better eyesight (simulated as being able to zoom) which gives them a better ability to aim on a distance. If one never held a bow in his hands ever before he won't be a good archer though no matter how good his eyes are.

As a hypothetical, would it be possible for Bethesda to utilize some form of context-based controls (think Assassin's Creed series, if you have no idea what I meant)?

Example: kill off the "run" and "autorun" buttons, (and effectively, an actual sneak button). Run is now "Walk", Autorun is "sprint", and the default movement is "jog". All actions pretty much descend from what combination of modes you are in:

Jump, block, and cast still perform those functions, in all modes, but the exact nature of each action changes. Hypothetical:

ACTION  SPRINT     JOG       WALK    SNEAKjump    hurdle     leap      jump    hopcast    glacial    moderate  quick   slowblock   short      moderate  hold    hold

so, basically, when sprinting, "jump" effectively hops you over obstacles and little more. Likewise, you cast spells at the slowest speed, and your blocks are short. Jogging (previously, running) is well-rounded. Walking offers faster spell casting and superior blocking (no upper limit to duration). Sneaking offers slower casting and more limited jumping abilities because more extreme movements would be... unstealhy, to say the least.

On the other hand, "grab" could use context to decide whether an object is to be placed, carried, or thrown.

Mind you, I haven't fully anolyzed what actions are workable and whether there are cases where an action might be legitimate in some contexts where it normally would seem inappropriate..

Speaking of effects of ingredients ... How about fat people and the ability to influence their or even your body weight ? ..
Oh god .. Weight Watchers counting points. The apple you just eat had 1 point .. and was poisioned.

How about a god instead having a god to worship would be awsome much better than a birthsighn. Say in the begining you are about to enter a really hard fight a priest tells you both to kneel and pray to your patron gods and he ask you both what they are and a screen comes up with the gods of the native province and the nine.Or with the right camasity the gods of every provence. It would be cool to add another screan say 1 god 1 dedra lord to worship with the boneses of both???

Neither do I, but I still stay :shrug:

You start at LEVEL 1. You are NOT strong or sneaky, yet. You are weak from days with no food and oppression from the slave masters. Perhaps you were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Who knows, you could have been a criminal or one of the slavers themselves.

Its just an idea anyways.

They won't get rid of birthsigns for religion. Why should I have to worship bob the dude to get the same thing a birthsign should give. That'd choose some of my lore for me

Alll hail Bob the Dude!

I like these Lich ideas, and i do agree that there should be more than just change in physical appearance and stats. That's why i think that there should be a quest of some kind to become one, because, from what i read in that article, it's difficult and intricate to become one, which means that the quest would be complex and very fun to complete.

Have it so you can obtain a title like 'Zombie slayer (name)' from doing things in the game, (slayed 30 zombies) also it has an affect on how people see you. (obviously make it harder to get the Titles...)

It's similar in several ways to how I'd do it. The actual process seems to be difficult and mysterious even to necromancers, judging by the diary of that guy in Oblivion, and I think should be so for the player as well. Assuming ritual-type magic were implemented, you might need to set up an elaborate altar space. Clues to the proper ways to do this could be pieced together from ancient texts, other necromancers, seances, and so on. When you think you've got it right you can attempt the ritual, but if you've done anything wrong, you could weaken or kill yourself. Higher necromancy/mysticism skills could make you aware of any components that are wrong, but will not in themselves tell you what's right. The main discrepancy from lore I see in yours is from that same Oblivion quest; there, he says that the "soul jar/phylactery" is only a temporary tool to safely house the soul while the body dies and is revived, after which the soul returns to the body and the jar is useless.

I'd also make the benefits not immediate, as they're stuck being weighed down by a corpse in an alien situation. With attributes you'd start out as losing any physical bonuses/abilities, but would gradually learn to magically simulate body functions (in the same way a skeleton is obviously using magic to replace muscles) and eventually get them back and be able to improve stats, in this case because you're mastering that talent instead of perfecting your body, though the results are the same. My thought on advancing the lich state from sickly to powerful was through devouring trapped souls, increasing your power as a magical being. The stronger you get the more the effect is reduced, so you can't sit around eating rats until you're godlike. This would also be a buff in itself, being a new way for the lich to restore magicka (since as a negative feature in my own system the undead body no longer benefits from potions).

The specific benefits/effects I gave were to considerably increase magicka regeneration and capacity, reduce spell failure (I would think magic is easier when you're made of it), and to make the magicka bar gradually replace stamina/fatigue as the lich state advances. The lower its magicka, the more "tired" it is, reducing general effectiveness the same way drained fatigue does. The benefits would be more than enough for it to be a more dangerous spellcaster that it was in life without dangerously exhausting itself, of course, unless it's still a weak/poorly advanced lich. If fighting multiple enemies, it could tear out and eat the souls of the weaker ones to stay in top form. Health, instead of actual life force, would be more a reflection of your physical body's condition. The higher your magicka the more resistant to damage it is, since magic is what holds it together and injury means little.

If health reaches 0 and the body is destroyed, the lich still exists as a spiritual being. Wait, I'll just be lazy and copy/paste this part.

Perfect for Skyrim. Nordic names, anyone? It shouldn't the likes of "Zombie Slayer". The titles should be something creative and Nordic. Take some in-game ones for example:

Yngling Half-Troll <- Perhaps I could get this name by befriending a troll?
Skjoldr Wolf-Runner <- Perhaps I could get this by outrunning a wolf?
Sjoring Hard-Heart <- Perhaps I could get this by performing some "couragous" deed?
Onmi Hard-Mouth <- Perhaps I could get this by frequently using negative insulting comments?


There are plenty of potential naming methods. And don't take my reasoning as the hard definative method. I'm no dev... The names may come from something else, but you get my point.

To get one of these names, I'd have to be accepted by a Nordic Clan. Sort of like how I join the Ashlanders in Morrowind. I would forever be known by the name I choose, and I could never change it, so I'd have to choose carefully. (Nords are often stuck with their names)


Of course, it shouldn't be essential to join a Nordic Clan and have a name, if I don't want one. I don't see my superioritist Altmer Nobleman wanting one of these.




Speaking of Nordic Clans, assuming the likes of the Skaal are in Skyrim, if I join one of these clans, I should be able to rise through the ranks, and become a leader. Really annoyed me how I couldn't take the space available in Bloodmoon... Perhaps it would be a racial thing? The members of the Clan are more likely to sympathise with a Nordic outlander, than a non-Nordic outlander.