TES V Ideas and Suggestions #180 : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:07 am

So Daniel_Kay, you basically want TES:V to have the controls of Splinter Cell?

No, I want the control system to be more interactive and dynamic, don't push this the "you want to make this into game X" direction. YES those controls would be more action based but how would that be bad?

You shouldn't compare Thief and Oblivion. Thief is on unreal engine. The shadows are all baked. TES is always dynamic.

I'm not really comparing it to Thief itself, that was to show that hard shadows CAN look good and soft shadows are not really necessary as they just eat too much processing, have HARD SHADOWS for objects and environments as a minimum.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:53 pm

...
I'm not really comparing it to Thief itself, that was to show that hard shadows CAN look good and soft shadows are not really necessary as they just eat too much processing, have HARD SHADOWS for objects and environments as a minimum.

But it won't play nice with the dynamic environment/nature of TES. When you can bake things it can go pretty well as in http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=19711658&postcount=902 and http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/1942/full-res/1225818152.jpg.(which makes 2033 much more interesting) But you get a static environment.

I understand you though, it is like they have some sort of idealism, "We won't add shadows until global illumination is possible.".

PS. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-08-16-bethesdas-todd-howard-interview?page=2
Todd Howard talks about shadow filtering here. I have hopes like you. The lack of shadows is unbelievable.

PSS. I might be mistaken about Thief's lighting. They seem to introduce guards with lights!!!

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:03 pm

But it won't play nice with the dynamic environment/nature of TES. When you can bake things it can go pretty well as in http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=19711658&postcount=902 and http://media.teamxbox.com/games/ss/1942/full-res/1225818152.jpg.(which makes 2033 much more interesting) But you get a static environment.

I understand you though, it is like they have some sort of idealism, "We won't add shadows until global illumination is possible.".

PS. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2010-08-16-bethesdas-todd-howard-interview?page=2
Todd Howard talks about shadow filtering here. I have hopes like you. The lack of shadows is unbelievable.

I sure hope there are fixes. I mean GTA4 too has dynamic shadows AND it's a dynamic game world, again it's biggest flaw is that they force soft shadows which look just ugly on low setting and still swallow more than hard shadows.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:56 pm

Something like dead space would be awesome, like your menu could be a Journal. It would contain your map that you pull out and has you discover new locations you have to actively put them in.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:09 pm

I sure hope there are fixes. I mean GTA4 too has dynamic shadows AND it's a dynamic game world, again it's biggest flaw is that they force soft shadows which look just ugly on low setting and still swallow more than hard shadows.

Yeah, GTA4's engine is awesome. It needs some further polishing for PCs. They released many patches fixing the issues including shadows. Besides the real performance problem with GTA is, it is CPU heavy. It needs 4 cores at least. Edit: and as much as ram/vram you can provide.
(off topic: GTA4 increases texture resolution of reflections when game resolution increased. I have found a way to by-pass this. Trading off reflection resolution for shadow quality/resolution gave me huge FPS boost and quality difference. Also keep in mind GTA simply looks better with high resolutions. Don't run it in low resolutions. Also you have to get find a sweet spot between RAM/VRAM texture limits or game aggressively lower/increase texture quality as you look around. Also disable everything in background. (There is a nice suspend command in process explorer which you can use if you can't/don't kill a process.) I spent so much time fixing this game's visuals and performance but it looks simply amazing, you can be inside the shadow of a building 10 blocks away. PS. I use this mod: http://www.gtagarage.com/mods/show.php?id=5691 )

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:03 pm

No, I want the control system to be more interactive and dynamic, don't push this the "you want to make this into game X" direction. YES those controls would be more action based but how would that be bad?

Er, I wasn't pushing anything in any direction. I wasn't insinuating that you meant anything either.
I simply asked a question in a jokingly way, denoted with a silly emoticon. :blink: It was even a rhetorical question. I knew that's not what you meant. Jeez.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:15 am

Er, I wasn't pushing anything in any direction. I wasn't insinuating that you meant anything either.
I simply asked a question in a jokingly way, denoted with a silly emoticon. :blink: It was even a rhetorical question. I knew that's not what you meant. Jeez.

It's hard to tell the infelction a person is trying to give when you're reading something

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:05 am

Er, I wasn't pushing anything in any direction. I wasn't insinuating that you meant anything either.
I simply asked a question in a jokingly way, denoted with a silly emoticon. :blink: It was even a rhetorical question. I knew that's not what you meant. Jeez.

Well sorry for the overreaction but that is something I hear far too often around here, make a suggestion that vaaaaguely sounds like something from another game and WHAM "YOU WANT TO TURN THIS IN GAME X, GET LOST HERETIC"...

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:11 am

They've got to stop putting tips in the load screens. They send a manual with the game, I never need to be told by the load screens to click the stick to use stealth. I don't need to be told that the attack button is used for attacking. Just get rid of all tips in the load screens.

They should just AXE the load screens! There's no reason to have load screens that last long enough to have text on them you could read.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:52 am

More aquatic enemies :turtle:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:46 am

How about varying level's of plant growth, you pick something it will slowly grow back, at different stages the effects are varied. I think this would give a huge amount to Alchemy and a sense of seasons to the game, you could even have some plants that only bloom at night or day.

I like this idea because you could make certain recipees for spells taht requie a young spout of an item of the mature version. If you needed a young plant you either have to find one wild...or pick the mature plant and come back in a day to pick the tender new sprout. This might annoy some people, but I like the concept a lot.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:13 pm

Actual food. No one eats an unpeeled potato alongside a raw chunk of mutton with a side of leek.

Sounds like a typical RAW food diet to me. There are a few real good cookbooks (pardon the pun) on raw food perpetration. :foodndrink:

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:31 am

More aquatic enemies :turtle:

Rideable turtles to increase swim speed. B)

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:39 pm

I think that they should put the following on TES V:
1. Mount & Swing (You can mount your horse & attack from your horse using your bow & arrow or your sword)
2. Let you travel throughout the ENTIRE province of Tamriel (Cyrodiil, Skyrim, Summerset Isle, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Valenwood, Black Marsh, Elswyer, Vvardenfell, & High Rock; including all those provinces' cities, caves, forts, mines & settlements, just like traveling throughout Cyrodiil in Oblivion). And let's you travel in a carriage the way past Emperor's did just like in the Roman Empire.
3. Instead of having DLCs, include ALL projected DLC already included on the game (Vile Lair, Mehrunes Razor, Horse Armor, Wizard's Tower, Imperial Orrery, Spell Tomes, & Thieves Den) (unlike Oblivion, which you had to seperately purchase & download its' DLC)
4. Make you Emperor (with you choosing your own name like Oblivion), but whichever name you do choose, every one of the Empire's citizens speaks your name to other NPCs throughout the game.
5. Upgrade the Imperial Solider's Armor to that of the Imperial Palace & Imperial City Captains' Armor
6. Keep the Knights of the Nine (with you still in command of them as in the Oblivion expansion) & let them walk throughout the Imperial City & other cities without getting attacked and attacking without notice other soliders.
7. Give you, as Emperor, FULL access to the ENTIRE Imperial Palace (from top to bottom, which includes the outside top part of White Gold Tower, where Uriel Septim stood in the opening sketch sequence of Oblivion)
8. Take out the Vampirism (or keep it, but include the Vile Lair)
9. Give you full access (as Emperor) to every door & every room in every castle throughout the Empire.
10. Let you, as Emperor, make diplomatic decisions that keep peace or create war throughout the provinces (including letting you sit in any Imperial Council meetings & let you give out suggestions on how to run the Empire).
11. Again, as Emperor, let you take command of armies of over 10,000 to 100,000 soldiers (unlike Oblivion when the most soldiers you fought with were 2 or 3 from each town) IF you do break up the Empire & launch it into a civil war.
12. And finally, again, lets you control & command HUGE armies of Imperial soldiers (from the Imperial City) & fight against an Akaviri invasion (where the Akavir return taking revenge against the defeat from Reman during the reign of Emperor Reman I. The Akaviri invasion should be the main storyline (with Chancellor Ocato naming you Emperor of Tamriel) of TES V. In the end, you beat the Akavir back into Akavir & enslave the entire Akaviri empire.

Feel free to comment on any of my 12 suggestions (adding improvements or detractions to your liking). Yes, all of this sounds like a lot, but with Martin dead & the empire in a rebuilding mode (without an Emperor to lead them), you seem the only one fit to rebuild the Empire to glory (as Martin pointed out in his dialogue at the end of the game, after the last battle against Dagon ... "the 3rd Era has ended, but a new Era dawns & you shall be its scribe." Okay, not word-for-word, but you get the idea if you played the game.

Good thoughts -> but most arent possible. Becoming emperor would take the adventure side of the game out IMO, becos ur emperor -> y would u go running around the forest hunting monkeys and eating ogre fat? This would make it more of a diplomatic/total war sort of game, which isnt really wat TES r renowned for. Would also love to see the entire province of tamriel -> but i doubt that would happen, as its just 2 much work without cut and pasting areas over and over. Id rather them pick a province and do it well. As for mounted combat, would love to see that.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:36 pm

Here's a fair, but vague, example of the type of "branching questlines" I'd like to see. It doesn't even need to be this, just the general idea:

"There are two warlords. One of them has a reputation for brutality and ruthlessness, but will get the job done. The other has a reputation for being loved by his people and for being just. Either way, the region will be unified. The player must choose: Bloodshed and terror that brings order and stability and unity quickly, or the much more difficult path of peace talks and negotiations that may take years. In all, the time spent negotiating means that the skirmishes along borders and the like continue on, so by the time the talks are completed, not only have fewer lives that you might expect have been saved, but now neighbors are only tenuously unified and have inter-generational blood feuds.

However, for even further-thinking people, or for more choices, The bloodthirsty warlord has a physically inept son who is, however, good at poisoning and alchemy. He wants the throne, but promises to swear fealty to the kinder warlord if you help him kill his father, thus eliminating the war altogether in exchange for a single murder of a brutal man.

However further still, the oldest son of the kind warlord is a murderer. By making his father king, you have guaranteed that he ascends the throne. The only way to keep it from happening is to bring in indesputable proof of his crimes. However, that will leave the king without a son, and risk wars of succession in the future as he is old and has severe erectile dysfunction.

Basically, if someone were, like me, a goody-two-shoes player, they would need to do a good eight quests in order to get the "best" ending. However, there are several compromises that could be taken, even as early as siding with the brutal warlord. Each quest, as well, would have multiple paths. If you side with the brutal lord, then the quest to poison him is different, but available, because you have been made his trusted advisor and then the alchemist son becomes king. What then?"

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:00 pm

PSS. I might be mistaken about Thief's lighting. They seem to introduce guards with lights!!!

Yea I think, in Thief 3 there are several people carrying lights, you can create light by preparing a fire arrow (good for searching dark corners) and all movable objects cast shadows too, plus many light sources like torches and fireplaces flicker making shadows morph and move, so no, it's not static. And the shadows cast by buildings and objects also morph around your body and others/other objects so they're not "baked" in as well.

Best download a demo of Thief Deadly Shadows and try for yourself. Or buy it, it's really cheap, mine only cost 3 euro.

EDIT: You where likely thinking of the older thief games, but Thief 3 has fully dynamic shadows AND movable in game objects.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:10 am

Yea I think, in Thief 3 there are several people carrying lights, you can create light by preparing a fire arrow (good for searching dark corners) and all movable objects cast shadows too, plus many light sources like torches and fireplaces flicker making shadows morph and move, so no, it's not static. And the shadows cast by buildings and objects also morph around your body and others/other objects so they're not "baked" in as well.

Best download a demo of Thief Deadly Shadows and try for yourself. Or buy it, it's really cheap, mine only cost 3 euro.

EDIT: You where likely thinking of the older thief games, but Thief 3 has fully dynamic shadows AND movable in game objects.

I have it on steam.

Will take a look.

I still can't believe they couldn't progress in AI department and surpass Thief. I can only think of MGS series but that doesn't count. I want an FPS game. Thief still has the best AI. Where are non-linear level designs and the interactivity these old games have. After starting my gaming with Duke Nukem 3D and Thief, I thought there will be glory in future. :sadvaultboy:

Halo was nice but I am %100 certain the original design was sandbox. This is also true for Crysis/Farcry. They were like Unreal and a little more. But still at least they tried. I have to play experiments like Portal and Mirror's Edge to have some freedom these days. Or Rainbow Six like tactical games. Or sandbox games but they can't be a Morrowind, in depth, content and atmosphere.

PS. They make the good ones for consoles. :sad:

PPS. "WHAM "YOU WANT TO TURN THIS IN GAME X, GET LOST HERETIC"...", well I have to say this: Please don't turn this game into a "The Witcher". Anything but not the The Witcher, please.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:45 am

Silent Hill 2 and Thief 3 are ancient games by now, it's just pathetic if TES5 won't have at least some kind of object shadows -.-

Seeing myself and my own shadow is still maybe the most important aspect regarding shadows.

Edit: What's wrong with The Witcher? One of the best CRPGs of all times.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:24 am

Silent Hill 2 and Thief 3 are ancient games by now, it's just pathetic if TES5 won't have at least some kind of object shadows -.-

Seeing myself and my own shadow is still maybe the most important aspect regarding shadows.

Edit: What's wrong with The Witcher? One of the best CRPGs of all times.

I really hope they have some shadows, I looked at the screenshots from Fallout new Vegas a but back and it doesn't really look any different from Fallout 3, I know different developer but still the same engine. And if they stick to it for TES5 then there might be problems.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:25 pm

Edit: What's wrong with The Witcher? One of the best CRPGs of all times.

Nothing, in itself. Very detailed game with extensive storylines. It is a different game entirely. ES should be a different game entirely too.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:07 pm

Nothing, in itself. Very detailed game with extensive storylines. It is a different game entirely. ES should be a different game entirely too.

Well you have to differ between content and mechanics. Content wise there can be a lot that can be taken from other games, however the mechanics can usually be so fundamentally different they can't translate to another game.

EDIT:
Oh yea an idea I had, there could be a bit of technological progression. One thing for example would be gas lamps in houses that have a "switch" so to say, pretty much a valve for the gas that has a cable operated igniter. Easy way to turn on the lights for gas lamps without having to open them.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:50 am

Oh yea an idea I had, there could be a bit of technological progression. One thing for example would be gas lamps in houses that have a "switch" so to say, pretty much a valve for the gas that has a cable operated igniter. Easy way to turn on the lights for gas lamps without having to open them.

They don't have the means of collecting the gas, or enough welding skill to make a safe set of pipes under pressure.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:31 am

They don't have the means of collecting the gas, or enough welding skill to make a safe set of pipes under pressure.

Sorry is that a "they don't have at the time Oblivion takes place" or a "They will NEVER have it"?
Just a LITTLE technological development wouldn't be that bad I think, unless it's supposed to be in cliché medieval stasis for all eternity.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:29 am

Don't the use magic to light lamps and stuff like that? Why would they need gas when you can create fireballs out of your palms?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:04 am

Don't the use magic to light lamps and stuff like that? Why would they need gas when you can create fireballs out of your palms?

Because by far not everyone can do that (if they can this opens several other logical problems), the fireballs usually seen just flash up and then vanish and lighting something is different from something burning over a long time.