Well yeah, that's why I like to think that teleportation is a very hard spell to learn and achieve. Mysticism, afterall, is the most difficult and perplexing school to study. I'm thinking that Mark and Recall are fairly easy because they're set points in Nirn. But for the player to wistfully teleport themselves to any location on the planet would require one very bright and intelligent mage; someone who knew a lot about Mysticism. So with that, I'm assuming the mages in the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Travelers_League either know a plethora about mysticism, or were trained specifically in that one particular skill by someone who actually was a master of the mystic arcane arts. Either way, lore-wise, a spellcaster should have the means of learning this spell so that they can teleport themselves anywhere in the world. That's not to say most can do it. I mean, I can go out and buy some books on quantum relativity and study the research of Steven Hawking but that doesn't mean I'll be able to understand it or do what he does.

@ absinthe

if they were to use birthsigns, theyd have to jazz them up -> make them more of an advantage/disadvantage arena with more powerful effects. Also love the idea of making them more powerful/effective during the time period when the certain consellation is visible in the sky

An idea I had a bit ago was having a "weapon mode switch" function which changes dynamically how a weapon is used.
For example when fighting with a spear you hold it and use it for stabbing mostly, when hitting "mode switch" you change it to throwing that spear. Axes could behave similarly, mode 1 is holding onto it for combat mode 2 is throwing.
Hammers could switch between using the blunt end and the pointy end, the blunt end is good for smashing, the pointy good for penetration (And I'm talking about REAL warhammers here, not the anvil on a stick version).

THIS.

VERY LONG LIST AHEAD

Skill groups and subskills:

Instead of every skill being single free floating they should be grouped in some way. This basically allows for having many more single skills but still not having them lose, ones that are grouped together would profit from each others leveling.


The group system:
One possibility how the group could influence the subskills could be by taking the average of all skills in the group, all skills below the groups level have a effectiveness up to the groups level. Their current effectiveness could in fact be random OR heavily dependent on your characters condition, if you're in bad shape the effectiveness will be more towards the skills actual level.
As a example it would work like this:

Skill Group – Lvl. ((5 + 15 + 20 + 40)/4) = 20

• Subskill 1 – Lvl. 5
  
• Subskill 2 – Lvl. 15
  
• Subskill 3 – Lvl. 20
  
• Subskill 4 – Lvl. 40

The effectiveness of a skill is basically how it would behave if it was raised artificially meaning you can handle that skill better but it doesn't necessarily come with all the advantages yet.
That way not every skill in the group HAS to be leveled up in order to be usable but leveling them up still brings advantages.


Skill and group list:
Here's a overview of what skills and groupings I'd like to see. The list itself is not really final, there could still be some skills added, merged or change between categories but it's pretty close to what I'd see as ideal.

Note that some also contain potentially none weapon tools and abilities like fishing rods for example.
Similarly they are not equally dividable by 3 as I try to get AWAY from the “big 3” thinking of needing to cram it into “warrior; mage; thief” categories.

Also a BIG NOTE, below in ranged weapons I mention Rifles and Pistols, note that I DON'T mean combustion based firearms but generally mechanism operated projectile devices like crossbows. Since this could also include other such devices I left the name more open this way.

Magic is still a bit open since it's hard to exactly pinpoint what would best fit in which category.

On “martial arts” something I'd suggest is having a selection of fighting styles that can be “equipped” like weapons and tools, that way you could more easily change between how you want to fight without requiring button combos.


Martial Arts:
-Boxing (Using your hands to attack)
-Kicking (Using your feet to attack)
-Grabs/Holds (Grabbing and holding)
-Throws (Throwing held opponents)

Light:
-Knifes (Short bladed weapons)
-Daggers (Primarily stabbing and thrusting weapons)
-Short swords (Sturdy small swords)
-Baton (Short stick weapons)
-Gauntlets (Wrist or hand mounted weapons)

One handed:
-Swords (Single handed bladed weapons)
-Sickle (Weapons with inwards curved blades)
-Clubs (Hefty one handed weapon)
-Small axes (Small one handed weapons with heavy and sturdy bladed head)
-Hammers (Small top heavy blunt or pointy weapons)

Two handed:
-Long/Great sword (Two handed blade weapons)
-Crescent blade (Large weapons with inwards curved blades)
-Large Clubs (Two handed hefty weapons)
-Large Axes (Large one handed weapons with heavy and sturdy bladed head)
-Large hammers (Large top heavy blunt or pointy weapons)

Poles:
-Staffs (Center held stick weapons)
-Spears (Bladed weapons held from one end)
-Poleaxes (Poles with heavy blades, held from one end)
-Halberds (Poles with hooks and pikes)

Flexible:
-Whips (Swung weapons with tip based momentum)
-Chains (Swung weapons with full length momentum)
-Flails (Swung weapons with flexible middle and rigid tip)

Ranged:
-Shortbows (Compact bows)
-Longbows (Large bows)
-Rifle (Loaded and fired weapons requiring 2 hands)
-Pistol (Loaded and fired weapons requiring 1 hand)

Thrown:
-Light throwing weapon (Light built weapons meant for throwing)
-Heavy throwing weapon (Heavy built weapons meant for throwing)
-Sling/Rope (Momentum based items)
-Pole tossing (Throwing pole weapons that remain straight in flight)
-Small item (Uncategorized small items [fits in one hand])
-Large item (Uncategorized large items [requires 2 hands])
-Juggling (Catching thrown items)

Athletics:
-Running (Ability to run or sprint with less stamina use)
-Jumping (Able to jump higher and longer)
-Swimming (Swimming faster and with less stamina use)
-Diving (Dive deeper and faster, hold your breath longer)
-Climbing (Climbing faster and with less stamina use, able to hold on to your weight)

Acrobatics:
-Sneaking (Move unnoticed)
-Trick jumping (Shifting your weight and direction mid jump, wall jumping...)
-Dodging (Able to twist, turn and duck hits)
-Balance (Able to move on uneasy grounds, prevent falling or tripping in combat)
-Dancing (Perform dances and acrobatic tricks)

Wear:
-Armor (Stiff and rigid items restrict movements less)
-Burden (Heavy clothing and items don't slow you down as much)
-Gear (Loosely worn equipment restricts/slows you down less and makes less noise)
-Attire (Wide or unfitting clothes don't restrict your movement range)
-Restraints (Wider movements while restrained, escape restrains easier)

Blocking:
-Parry (How well you can deflect attacks with weapons [influenced by this skill AND weapon skill and type])
-Buckler (Small and light shields)
-Shield (Large shields)
-Gauntlet (Deflecting attacks with your arms)
-Body (Absorb blows without being knocked down)

Crafting:
-Woodworking/Carving (Create and repair wooden and carve/cutable items)
-Metalworking (Create and repair metal items)
-Fabricworking (Create and repair items made of fabrics, leather and flexible/elastic materials)
-Pottery (Create and repair items made of moldable materials)
-Mechanics (Create and repair mechanisms)
-Animal processing (Extract and process materials from creatures)
-Plant processing (Extract and process plant materials)

Precision:
-Lockpicking (Manipulating locks and small mechanisms)
-Engraving/Calligraphy (Creating runestones and scrolls)
-Detailing (Allows to raise value of some items my making small improvements)
-Precision crafting (Create small and detailed items)
-Painting (Create paintings)
-Music (Perform music and play instruments)

Chemistry:
-Alchemy (Extracting magical properties from substances)
-Cooking (Make food more edible and create food items)
-Chemistry (Create mixtures with chemical effects)
-Brewing (Mix and enhance extracts, create concentrates)

Medical:
-Wound treatment (Tend and repairing wounds)
-Surgery (Ability to treat and repair severe wounds, remove foreign items with minimal damage)
-Infection treatment (Identify and treat diseases and poisons)
-Anatomy (Allows you to know more exactly about vital system, also useful in combat)
-Veterinary (Improves handling and treating of sick animals)

Perception:
-Taste (Ability to identify tastes and scents)
-Perception (Ability to “scan” for hidden or “invisible” things)
-Awareness (Improves your characters reaction time)
-Sharpshooter (You can zoom further while aiming a ranged/thrown weapon)
-Body language (Your character knows when your opponent intends to attack and can react earlier)
-Empathy (Identify a persons emotions and feelings)
-Concealed (You notice concealed weapons and items easier while pickpocketing)

Searching:
-Stealing (Pickpocketing)
-Mining (Gather ores and gems out of rock)
-Digging (Find plants, animals or items buried in the ground or sand)
-Farming (Harvesting plants more efficiently)

Conversation:
-Authority (Command and intimidate)
-Negotiation (Haggle or calm)
-Entertainment (Joke and taunt)
-Deception (Lie and confuse)
-Seduction (Ability to raise desires over duties)
-Teaching (Ability to teach your skills to other NPCs)
-Acting (More convincing while wearing disguises/costumes)
-Singing (Allows you to perform songs and create/imitate tunes and sounds)

Lingual:
-Etiquette (Slang of nobles and upper class)
-Streetwise (Slang of the average and low classes)
-Mercantile (Slang of professional merchants)
-Exotic (Languages of less civilized species)
-Daedra (Daedric languages)
-Ancient (Extinct languages)

Animal handling:
-Riding (Stay on top of a moving creature and act from there)
-Commanding (Give animals commands they then perform)
-Herding (Control groups of animals)
-Taming (Train animals to like you and do things)
-Calming (You do not provoke attack or flight reactions from animals)

Destruction: (Energy)
-Heat
-Cold
-Light
-Electricity
-Radiation
-Corrosion
-Vibration (sound)
-Force (momentum, pull)

Restoration: (Manipulate living matter)
-Animate (Stimulate tissue growth)
-Restore effect
-Modify wound
-Modify attribute
-Modify resistance
-Mutate (Grow new abilities)

Mysticism: (Spiritual manipulation)
-Empathy (Sense creatures and objects)
-Telepathy (Direct mental communication)
-Spirit control (Manipulate your own or others spirits)
-Mana control (Manipulate mana flow)
-Teleportation and marking

Alteration: (Warp physical properties)
-Change structure (corrode, reactivity, density, friction)
-Change density/state
-Mass
-Gravity (levitation, telekinesis)
-Momentum (amplify, nullify, reverse, redirect)
-Time (slowdown, stasis)

Conjuration: (Summon things)
-Summon element (fire, water, poison, disease)
-Summon object (item, weapon, armor)
-Summon creature
-Summon spirit
-Summon daedra
-Create portals

Enchant: (Bind and flow magic through items)
-Amplify/boost (magical) equipment
-Spellcrafting (combining spells)
-Enchant with spell
-Magical interaction (activate artifact)
-Magic circle (ban circle, area effect)
-Remove enchantment

Illusion: (Manipulate perception)
-Mirage (Implants an appearance on a suitable object or entity)
-Suggestion (Implant simple thoughts)
-Mind control (Take control over someone)
-Hallucination (Implant altered impressions)
-Lockdown (Disruption of mental processes)

:flame: Those are fighting words. :toughninja:

But I forgive you for being unenlightened. You can't help it! :shrug:

I understand that a real http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fisk-knives.com/War_Hammer3B.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fisk-knives.com/examples.htm&usg=__CjXRvIFArKNnh93fzjAdE_e3qug=&h=535&w=750&sz=82&hl=en&start=0&sig2=ms7BJjr9FFeZjoMCoAPW1g&zoom=1&tbnid=RCdIj4cPPVy3-M:&tbnh=118&tbnw=166&ei=0qigTM6XA8KAlAedtcjsAg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwar%2Bhammer%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den%26biw%3D1387%26bih%3D706%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=814&vpy=113&dur=93&hovh=190&hovw=266&tx=154&ty=135&oei=0qigTM6XA8KAlAedtcjsAg&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0 is a totally different thing from what you see in TES, or most fantasy actually.

Then, again, I've always seen the oversized smithing mallet as a staple of fantasy settings. It's not a real-world weapon, but it looks cool and I like it.

This is my http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v620/thelobo/HammerofGod.jpg?t=1285597549 from back when I used to play WoW. I always thought the fantasy war hammer gave a certain personality to the character. (it's hard to see, but his guild symbol is a hammer, too. this character had a weird thing for hammers)

I don't know, I guess, to me, something about the classic, real-world war hammer says, "rank-and-file infantry man." But, the over-sized fantasy hammer says, "freelance adventurer." I think there's a place for both in the world. I mean, it's not that hard to believe that a disgruntled smith would pick up his mallet and start smashing skulls.

Daniel_Kay - This is propably one of the most thoughfull skill system I've read. Its like a million possibilities to develop your character. I would prefer this system over Morrowind/Oblivions. Heck' its even better than all the other skill/level system mods out there,

Althoug I didn't see shield, reflect or absorb spells on that list?.....

Shields are in "Block" which is catching a hit with minimal and well distributed force on your body.

And I didn't really list all individual spells but spell categories, reflect spells could likely fit best in mysticism, alteration or destruction as they could either create a magical forcefield (mysticism), a field that automatically repulses (destruction) or simply alter the air into a shield of high density (alteration). Absorption would be in mysticism.
However I'd prefer to not have direct "absorb skill/attribute" spells as they're not really something you could absorb, you can't sap someones muscles away, however they CAN work in a "leech" way, absorb someones magica or their "energy" and directly convert it into a boost. Also if you wanted skill damages those can be in illusion as they can alter someones mental capabilities simply making them "forget" how to use something, attribute damages would be physical damage OR inhibitions (numbed/paralyzed muscles).

EDIT: Oh you meant shield SPELLS, but yea my explanation kinda accounts for those too I guess :dance:

Switching takes away the action element and a waste of button. Instead directly add an alternate fire button.

I would have a grab/throw button so you can pick up things around you and throw them at your enemy, because Dark Messiah did that well. If you had a throwing weapon, pushing that button would perform the weapon throw instead of picking up the item.

And then Rhekarid was there to steal attention. *lightning flash* Anyhow, Daniel Kay posting his skill set made me want to do the same, since I haven't in a while, and mainly because I'm too lazy to make a project out of sustained presentation like he does and just paste my stuff whenever someone else brings the subject up.

Skills are broken up into three subskills each. Primary skills are what you'd choose in character creation (so you'd take Destruction as always instead of Destruction: Damage), whereas the subskills are what you directly increase through use. In turn, perk-type abilities are obtained through the primary skill, so if you wanted to focus on mastery of Destruction's Damage aspect, you'd still need to raise the other two to obtain a greater number of relevant perks...while removing options for the other two in the process. Categories are mainly there for organization convenience, I wouldn't have any "focus" on combat/magic/whatever in character creation.

List:


On the unrelated note of combat styles, I'd rather have that be a separate thing from throwing your weapon. Picking up and throwing an object is something you can do with anything you're physically capable of, and easily left to its own throw button. I can see it being a potential nuisance trying to switch style and throwing your weapon when you still need it in your hands. The option to cycle through Stances would allow for different combat styles.

On the throwing thing it's more like how far, precise and how stable you can throw it that requires some skill.

Ha. Looking at your posts like "wtf? When did I post these?"

Our marsh-brother cannot understand our power, for he has not experienced the awesome power of the Hist.
He is forlorn; he will never be able to become one of us, and so, in his jealousy, he rejects us.

Daniel_Kay, wouldn't creating a portal be Mysticism and not Conjuration?

I love your lists of skills, such as dancing, cooking, music, art, pottery, farming. TES needs more mundane skills to give the world a more sense of vitality.

Also, there was a skill in Daggerfall called Diminution, which apparently isn't on the wiki site, but it was there. I remember seeing it. Maybe it was in the demo. But it was supposed to change the size of a creature. Point being, Diminution and the antonym of it would also be great spells under the Alteration college.
Would altering time be alteration or mysticism? You have it under Alteration, which I guess is appropriate. You're changing the world's perception of time.

Other spells I'd like to see would be Animation under the college of Mysticism. Basically, you'd give life to anything on which you'd cast the spell. Like on a table or a fork or a tree or a door frame. I'm picturing them moving around like in Disney's The Sword in the Stone. Now obviously we can't do this with current technology but lore wise, I don't see why magic couldn't do that if the person was gifted enough to figure it out.

I also like the idea of magic being used not only for practical uses, but for entertainment as well. Like Illusion, a spellcaster could perform a show kinda like in Disney's Sorcerer's Apprentice, how he's creating images in the air. And also taking the Sound spell to an entirely new level and creating actual music. You'd have to cast the spell on the entire audience for them to hear the music though. These ideas are mostly for roleplay purposes as they'd be impossible to implement in today's games.

The idea was "summoning" something like a portal device, Conjuration would in my opinion itself be more like creating temporary portals. In fact would be cool if the summoned creatures would not just appear out of thin air but actually step through a portal.
The summoned portal device simply remains stable for some time to pass through so it's a bit more usable than a mark and recall spell to transport a lot of stuff.


Thank you :icecream:
Yea I really want some non combat skills in there. And some of the combat seeming ones are also usable for other things, whips for example also contains fishing robs and Sling/Rope can also contain non lethal bolas and grappling hooks to scale walls.


That would be a interesting spell

Yea this is one of the cases where it could still change but so far it's under alteration as altering the flow of time, could very well go under mysticism as well though so this is more floating.


Yea something like that would be interesting, maybe it would fit under "enchant" as well as you could fuse a item with a soul. However handling souls IS more mysticism so yea it would fit there too, so also kinda floaty at the moment.

Also some spells should be "cross category" so it could easily be that some cover more than one school of magic.
In the "absorb" example I gave before this could be use "drain magic" from mysticism and combine that with "enhance attribute" so the absorbed magica is instantly turned into a attribute boost. Additionally you could add a paralysis spell in there damaging your opponents attributes the same time yours are enhanced.


Yea also magic in the world should also be used for practical uses like building houses and such.

Taking the entertainment far there could even be "movie theaters" where mages project images into thin air to illustrate a story read by a storyteller.

Daniel, despite your being a beast-lover, this pretty much makes you awesome in my book.

Language specialization (or just skills for that matter) should be a key feature in any RPG with so many different cultures.

I agree, especially since i want to make a true assassin it would be cool if my assassin actually had to integrate himself with people to reach the duchess of whoditty ville or whoever the hell im trying to kill. Now if its a peasant living in the woods, i can just walk out and slash the bastard to bits, but if its a higher up person it should be a challenge to get it. i should have to either bribe gaurds, integrate myself in the higher up society, or find something to get me to them. Like in a book im reading, the assassin has to pretend to be a courier or a count or all kinds of things. But being a courier in the poor part of town would bring suspicion so he has to have safe-bolts, where he hides changes of cloths and what not. And of course, good assassins should be paid hansomely

like, for the main quest of an assasins guild, have a series of quests all relating to the assasination of a single person, in which the player manages to get close and has an array of options with which to kill them.

Like for every single assassins quest have that well maybe not that precisely, it depends on the kill. I dont expect it to be as complex as staging a suicide, but i'd like it if we didnt just have to basically waltz in, stab them, and waltz out. I'd like some where you have to infiltrate a castle, getting past security and other members of the castle, all without raising suspicion. Whereas others could be just making sure you're not seen when you break into the person home and stab them while they sleep. I'd also be nice if for an "official" assassins guild you have to pay money for every person you kill that wasn't your target. That would try and make you more cautious but kicking out would be a bad thing because sometimes you just have to silence a guard or two. Especially if we get radiant AI. If a person was just about to sit down to dinner with a friend and you barge in you'd have to kill them both but pay dues for the other person or something like that. So you'd have to time it and be well prepared. Or you could just go butcher everyone and pay a bunch of money but you might not get hired by the "good" guys, aka the government, again, but maybe by the "evil" dudes.

To sum it up- dues for innocents, have to prepare kills, disguises oh and maybe different methods of killing besides stabbing and hacking, maybe things that simulate other things, like pushing down steps, poisoning with something that makes them have a heart attack a while later when they are in full view of people. Idk just make assassination more fun.

I gotta add that I see Mysticism as a basic magic when doing freaky stuff with Mundus and Conjuration as interacting with the other realms of Daedric Princes. I think that a standard transportation portal would be mysticism, unless you are going to/from a Daedric world.

Ok, you have to give that Hircine in your avatar a hat or something because I keep mistaking you for Hircine.

I was like, "how is Hircine not a beast lover?"

Such a shame that he's been reduced to such petty jealousy. :shakehead:

On topic, Argonians need our spears back! That is all.

... OHHH! I see... was confused there a second. I was like "what do you mean 'how could he not be a beast lover,' he just said he hates them..." but then I scrolled up and I was like :bonk:
I go by avatars, not names.


I agree. Plus, they need to be as effective as any other weapon. Just because a spear isn't as impressive as a blade, doesn't mean it isn't as lethal.