Here's a small idea: How about when you achieve a high Blade skill, if you have a one-handed longsword and no shield, some of your attacks will wield the weapon with two hands? You slash away at your enemy, and then all of the sudden you just seize the blade with both hands and cut him down. It could happen like every three or four strikes, you just get one claymore-style blow in. It would do less damage than an actual claymore hit, and it would be slower than a longsword hit, but it'd be faster than a claymore and more damaging than a longsword.

In Oblivion and probably other TES games, there was no point in just holding only one sword. The shield doesn't affect your damage at all, it just gives you better defense and some attacks. Now there will be some perks of wielding just one sword.

It is more than slightly difficult to determine who out of a given population will benefit from extensive education in a particular topic without giving everyone in that population a beginner's education in that topic.

It is for that reason that the current method in most public schooling is to expose the entire student body to a general education. It's not some bizarre form of sadism.

It's only once you have had a fair taste of science, art, literature, et cetera, that you can say that you know whether or not it's likely you will need them. Even then, you may be wrong. Contrary to the opinions of children, they do not know what they really want. A related fact, but not equivalent: children are not usually correct when they speculate about what they will be when they "grow up".

The wonderful thing about having had a general education is that, having been exposed to more than just your current specialization at age 30 or whatever, in real life you can "change your character's class". It's harder to properly choose when you are unaware of the choices... even by degrees of clarity.

=====
Back on topic, if there are "schools" or an Arcane University in TES V, they don't need to follow the above model as it is only one of several used historically.


Your idea is interesting, but please help me understand... what is it about using two hands (more strength/force) to swing a given sword that would make you think you'd be less able to swing it quickly than with one hand (less strength/force)?

What am I missing? I would have thought that using two hands (and therefore two arms) instead of one, with the same sword, to generate more force & do more damage... would result in the sword traveling faster. How do you propose to generate more force on the same sword by moving it, as you say, "slower"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force

I'm a little stumped as to what you mean, or how you mean it. Is it about the wrists or some other restriction of movement inherent in using two hands/arms? And if so, how would that impedance not result in less force (read "less damage")?

Or is it just that where you wrote "slower" you were not correct?

You shouldn't be able to deflect attacks as well with a weapon as with a shield really, most weapons are not made for that and you couldn't hold a certain force applied on them. Defending with a weapon could wield a high risk of getting disarmed.

Personally I would "remove" blocking with weapons but instead have "parrying" which the character does automatically, more or less successful though. Blocking would be a function of a shield, you could also hold a weapon in your "offhand" which would parry far more than your main weapon but also has a weapon function.
Your shield still would have more advantages, for one it covers a larger area so you can also defend against arrows and you will have a better grip on it.

Bravo.

Although I would like a weapon-skill-related small chance to parry arrows (and other physical projectiles) that is proportional to the distance the arrow has traveled.

sounds interesting. it would certainly make placing objects a hell of a lot easier!

Good point, in the skill system I posted last thread this could be possible with a high parry skill, high "awareness" skill and high agility. Wouldn't be possible with ALL weapons though, you can hardly block something like that with a bow, a net/sling or a dagger... or nunchucks :toughninja:

EDIT: Though "slapping aside" would still be possible, you could entangle a arrow in a net when you react fast enough and prevent it from hitting you.

On the subject of armor variety/details, just to repeat another past suggestion, I'd like to see variety extend to daedric equipment too. Even in a detailed system that discards defense in favor of multiple factors, daedric armor is at risk of easily becoming the obvious "best", a fact that has annoyed and bored me in past games. Yes, we've got the stuff that Dremora wear. But isn't the equipment Golden Saints are using also technically "Daedric Armor"? Am I to believe Dremora are the only soldier-type daedra in existence? There's a lot of potential for variety in daedric items depending on which plane of Oblivion it comes from, and there's no reason to stop there; I find it unlikely that only one type of equipment could possibly be found among the infinite and chaotic daedric realms. It could stand out from "mortal" armor with special effects unique to those types. Incredible hardness such as that found on Dremora, or maybe material that's as light and flexible as the finest silk clothing but as strong as ogre-hide leather. Armor from Hircine's realm might be still-living leather that heals and never needs repairing, while some from Mephala's could change color to mimic the background, providing camouflage. Weapons could also vary, such as a blade from Moonshadow emitting a unique energy type that few non-daedric creatures have any resistance to, or one from Nocturnal's realm becoming more dangerous at nighttime. Possibilities are endless, nor is there any need to confine it to only one item time (such as current daedric armor coming in heavy plate style and nothing else). It would add a great deal of variety to both abilities and appearance in late-game options.

I'd also like the ability to create daedric items. Those that exist in the world must be coming from somewhere, and no, it doesn't need to be automatically overpowered. If I'm not mistaken, the way we understand it's made from lore is the binding of daedra into ebony equipment, kind of a combination of Bound Item and soul trap/enchanting. Difficulty would be high, and there would be a much larger discrepancy between quality levels than with items that are "only" forged. Low-grade attempts might last only a short while, have much lower stats, and consume the base materials once dispelled. A true "perfect", permanent daedric item like you'd always pray to find would be the work of several master-grade craftsmen, including at least a blacksmith to forge the base equipment, a conjurer to summon the daedra, and an enchanter to combine them. It would be nearly impossible for even a player character with master levels in all three skills to do it by themselves, and it could be a one-time reward for a big quest. By the time the player would have access to the personal skill and connections/influence over others and access to resources needed it would be well beyond the range of imbalancing. As well, the option of what material/style is used could further add variety to options.

I think he was suggesting making it slower as just a way to balance the increased damage.

Yup. Physics would make it go faster but the game needs to make things "fair."

Anyways, the game needs an improved enemy system. A troll might walk up and pummel you, but a wolf wouldn't, unless it was sick or desperate. Most would either fight or growl. So, perhaps more realistic animal behaviors? In addition, we need more (dynamic) enemies in general. It shouldn't be a mudcrab every five steps. I'd like to see more bears, sharks, swarms of flesh-eating insects, any fantasy creatures, and, of course, snakes!

See... because I'm a snake fanatic...

...whatever.

It's a relevant reason, but if there were a bigger discrepancy between blocking and parrying I don't think the slower strikes would be necessary. You've already got the counterbalance of not using a shield, and beyond that, you don't really need to add a negative to the natural increase in your deadliness with a blade as skill level goes up.

Huh, didn't think about that. You raise a good point.

Anyways, you should be able to design your own weapons. I want Bethesda to chock the game full of designs. For me, of course, I'd have a snake carved around the blade.

I got a lenghty one comming up

Ways To Improve Combat

Dice Rolls
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some people don't wan't them I can perfectly understand but unless were packing terabyte disk space which is possible since sony is working on one as we speak for consoles (Go Sony ! :celebration:) combat won't be as good as people hope since console version just sell more in fact they can loose all their PC players and still make a good sum of cash and not care (although I will kill them :swear: ) but dice rolls can solve alot of this problem morrowind dice roll system works and I going to say it again it worked the problem with blocking is it give you no chance of beating a High level enemy even on easy with my daedric sword of the inferno
the goblins literally pawned me they need to fix blocking or have a auto guard control by dice rolls and a equation such as this B= D/S

B= block
D= Damage
S= Skill

but please make it more complex

Unique Enemies
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Zombies uterly fail in elder scrolls and how come there is no enemies larger than a building like the mutant behemoths in fallout you used the same engine don't put dragons that is so cliche but put giant salamanders or worms I am bad at creativity but at least try something as for zombies making them unkillable isn't fun it's annoying try to make them invincible untill you scower the dungeon for a torch or use a handu fire spell and lit them up on fire and watch there bodies disinigrate that is what I call unique enemy design plus it also gives the torch some actual usage since we all know dungeons aren't to dark anyways


Well I'll have more coming soon but I need to find some mor eflaws in oblivon and morrowind to suggest correcting:)

Sorry but I really disagree on diceroll mechanics, and in my opinion they did NOT work in Morrowind, they just made things overly tedious as a beginner. And no the start being tedious is NOT a "basis of EVERY RPG".
There are ways to improve on factors like combat and many other skills and systems without using a % based randomizer OR at least absolutely minimizing it's influence.
On combat for example, where Oblivion failed in that aspect was basing it far to FEW factors AND thinking they could flawlessly transplant Morrowinds armor and "damage by assigned numbers" system over into it, it just doesn't work.

Generally a big problem is that developers don't like moving away from pen and paper mechanics when they easily could. A computer CAN calculate thousands of factors the same time so why not use that?
Have it calculate angles of hits, the speed of hits, the point of impact, the movement of your target, the armoring of your target, the weight of your weapon, the condition of your weapon, the distance between you and the target which determines on which point the weapon made contact and take the momentum from that, what kind of damage was made, how severe the damage was, how much it influences skills and attributes... all not a problem to crunch for a machine. So why limit it down to "I hit with this many points so you lose that many points"?
If it's just "so people can understand the calculation" you're simplifying on the WRONG end, if the systems feel fluent and NATURAL they ARE understandable without having to show a flood of numbers. People will know "this weapon is heavier, will take more strength to handle it well and it will be slower but has a lot more power on impact and can crack harder armors". In fact having many, many, MANY more factors that come into play but simply NOT showing them all makes it simpler to understand already, you DON'T have to crunch numbers every 5 minutes.

RPG shouldn't mean you need a calculator and spreadsheet to play it, it should mean you can play it and it FEELS right (which should really go for ANY game).

No need to highlight them, the our character would know what to do.

I think using two hands would make you do less damage with a one handed sword, because your precision would be shot and I don't think you could swing it much faster if any faster. Swordfighting shouldn't be crazy wild swings anyway, you'd tire and die too quickly. I think you should get a couple small wounds on the enemy, then finish them when they're weakened.

The arrow would be moving at something like 300 feet per second, you'd have to have a speed skill of 95 or 100 pull that off. You might have a chance of pulling that off with a throwing star or knife, but if you're fast enough to block that kind of thing with a weapon, why wouldn't you just get out of the way and not chance getting hit?

I don't think your precision would decrease, I think it would either stay the same or even increase. If you think about it, it's easier holding something in two hands than it is one hand, right? And because of that, you have more control over your swing, and more control means more accuracy. (I just tried this so I'm pretty confident in my reply.)

And how would it do less damage? What would hurt more, being hit by someone wielding a sledge in one hand, or someone swinging a sledge with two hands for extra momentum? (I tried this, too. A full-power swing makes me sway more when I'm wielding a weapon two-handed.)

But I'm no major in physics, so I could be wrong.

Snakes_Eternal out! *poof* :bolt: :ninja:

Yes, you sway more. Then you die before you right yourself again unless you just killed your last opponent. You don't need to major in physics to know that!

Although with hammers and axes and maces it may be different, if a sword is sharp then you can rely on the sharpness. I do sword martial arts, and if the sword is dull, like a poorly maintained mercenary's longsword, then yes you would use it more as a bludgeoning implement and therefore more force would be better. However the ideal is a sharp sword so that you don't need to use too much force to wound, and a shield so that the sword isn't chipped and dulled by blocking. Although obviously, in the choice between blocking with the edge of a sword (and therefore chipping it) and losing your life, I'd rather have to get the sword fixed than have an impromtu meeting with St. Petey.

Does anyone here do blunt weapon training in real life? Perhaps they could better differentiate skills if they got a specialist to tell the best ways to use each weapon type in-house?

It's only a step forward. Besides, you have Daedric armor, so I think that extra step wouldn't do much damage

Yeah, that swaying probably would mean less in semi-magical armor, and when you die based on hit points and not actual injury. But still, it might be a detail they could look into.

The fact is, I like swords. I train with swords, and I know that back when people lived and died by the sword that one step could be the only difference between the two. So seeing something that is blatantly incorrect, like the random, wild swings in Oblivion, takes me out of the fiction and reminds me "I'm just playing a video game, and will be unaffected by the fates of these characters." I'm not asking for 100% realism, but just a few touches here or there for immersion.

I agree, I'm a fan of swords as well. I go to the Renaissance faire as often as possible, and always walk away disappointed. You could imagine how I felt when they took away the staged fights and joust.

Anyways, it's obvious that step is risky, but seeing as how this is a fantasy game, there is no risk. I might try swinging my Nerf sword around more, seeing if I can find away to avoid that step.

Edit: Restraint might be the key. Swing harder but not too hard.
Edit 2: Oh, and by a step, I don't mean a full stop, you swing your blade back pretty quickly.

Sadly All RPGs need spread sheets and calculator to completely get the mecanics and yes oblivion the do have variables that determine the damage factors complex one as well this is the variable for the luck attribute one of the easiest ones

SkillModifiedByLuck = SkillInQuestion + ( 0.4 * (Luck - 50 ) )

yeah they always did RNG and always will do it so why not intergrate it into combat when it already featured one in the fisrt place no need for suedo acrobatics or Fail shield skills

EDIT: besides it is no fun when I can't kill anything since their abusing blocking so darn much and I still take damage when I block

If its locational damage, wouldnt they make it so your able to aim where ever you want? so you would need to know where to aim at good parts, and you'd know more as you got better. From what your saying it sounds like for fighting you just want to click and have the character swing automatically to a good spot. Why not just click and the whole battle happens? bleh. We should be able to choose where we hit, thats why highlighting would be necesarry.

Because blocking was done BAD in TES, always has been.

Combat was done BAD and need to be redone.

To me using RNGs is just "we couldn't think of anything better". They just feel cheap when it randomly decides "no, you'll miss now".
There are better mechanics for all of this they just don't work if they keep resurrecting the same old other systems that never quite worked in the past as well. Your combat system can be as fleshed out as it wants to be, if in the end it just sums up to having to slowly grind down your opponents hitpoints it won't work.

And then you just keep ending up with opponents surviving getting stabbed through the head repeatedly and then die by hitting heir foot on a rock because it took away that one last hitpoint.


My call generally is, DON'T recycle the old systems, they just don't work and to be fully honest they NEVER really worked. The systems need to be redone from the ground up.

I always thought the combat was done well enough, better than most rpgs in fact, but its not up to me and i'm not very sure of your ideas so.....

That's why the Mount and Blade combat system should be used, it's actually fun.

I was never bothered by blocking in Oblivion. It felt fine. The only way blocking could really improve that I can think of is if people reacted to blow timing and variation better. For example, if you keep hitting directly forward 4 or 5 times and then suprise with a sideswipe, you might catch them off guard.