As far as Armors go I'd really redo the whole system, both how the armor parts are set up AND how they protect you.

As for how they protect, if something can't penetrate the armor it won't cut you, however kinetic energy always travels through armoring as well but is dispersed. I'll try to write up some more details on the system.

As for armor parts and what they protect here's a list I have written down a while ago.

Armor parts:

Head:
-Top shielding
-Back head shielding
-Visor
-Nose protector
-Mouth protector
-Side shield
-Neck shielding

Body:
-Chest plate L,R
-Stomach shielding
-Back shielding
-Lower back shielding
-Crotch protector
-Hip protector
-Neck shielding
-Deflector (chest)
-Shoulder protector

Shoulders:
-Shoulder cover
-Neck protector
-Upper arm protector

Arms:
-Upper arm plating outside/inside
-Elbow protector
-Lower arm plating outside/inside
-Wrist shield
-Hand shield

Gloves:
-Back hand shielding
-Palm armoring
-Finger shielding
-Finger armoring
-Wrist armoring

Hips/crotch:
-Lower body shielding front/back/sides

Legs:
-Upper leg armoring outside/inside
-Knee protector
-Lower leg armoring outside/inside

Feet:
-Foot shielding upper foot/sole
-Ankle shielding


Connected parts:
Face plate; Nose protector – Mouth protector – Visor

Solid cuirass; Chest plate L, R – Stomach shielding – Upper + Lower back shielding

Two part cuirass; Chest plate L, R – Stomach shielding; Upper + Lower back shielding

Head helmet; Top head shielding – Back head shielding

Full helmet; Top head shielding – Back head shielding – Side shielding

Closed helmet; Full helmet – Face plate



Examples:
Legionary Helmet:
-Parts; Top head shielding – Back head shielding, Side shield

Hoplite Helmet:
-Parts; Top head shielding – Back head shielding – Side shielding – Nose protector

Corinthian helmet:
-Parts; Top head shielding – Back head shielding – Side shielding – Face plate

Daggerfall did it first! Daggerfall did it first!

No schools. The rich learn from private tutors, the poor learn from philosophers and religious leaders. Generally people in society go into the same line of work as their parents, or they apprentice with an artisan. Most people shouldn't be able to read. Most don't know a lot of the world outside of their town, so they love information from travelers.

Imo The Unreal World. 26 hit locations on the body, including groin and eyes. 4 or 5 different damage types, including piercing, blunt, tearing and slashing. Armor types according to damages. Same with wound types.
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5274/armorf.png
Clothes also have the warming effect, and surviving winter without full fur coverage is quite impossible.
Multiple layers of armor and clothing. Studded cloth under ring or plate mail, of course, and a coat or cloak over them to provide minor extra protection plus warmth.

Anyone claiming that Oblivion has the WORST armor system ever obviously hasn't played many games. It has FUNCTIONING enchantments, armor degradation, Heavy and Light armors, and all sorts of quality tiers.


I feel for you in not feeling like a Shaman, though. I love to play a Necromancer occasionally, but asside from my appearance and the fact that I carry a Staff of Sickness and summon zombies, I never feel like a Necromancer.


This is part of why I suggested an Occupations system earlier in this edition of the thread. I want there to be ritual magic to perform with a group, and dea bodies to turn into zombies. I want to cover my body with tattoos and furnish an underground abode with furniture made of bones.

Yea saying "it's the worst" is clearly too far, but it would require HEAVY improvements.
Right now, especially with the global damage system, it's really more or less "useless", if you'd wear a single armor glove that just has enough protection points you can be nearly invincible.

Its magic.

Yes the addition of locational damage to Elder Scrolls would be an improvement. However what games include a locational damage AND more armor choices? I don't know, but i'm betting very few.... Like counting on one hand...

I agree, but obviously that's already been fixed, given that Fallout 3, which was running on a modified Oblivion engine, used local hit detection, so Bethesda will likely implement it soon. Plus, I really want to kill someone with an arrow to the eye.



Err... Fallout 3. AKA Oblivion with Guns. Bethesda has already made a game with armor options like those of Oblivion but with Local Damage.

I hope there's a more realistic combat system. If your opponent is swinging at your right side, you should have to have fast reflexes to block your right side. In Oblivion you just held the block button and everything automatically got blocked no matter where they hit you. Just tweak the physics of the weapon along with your strength, so to use my previous example -- if someone is swinging at your right side, you can either hold your sword on your right side to block it, or step back and hit their sword into the ground or to the side to throw them off balance.

And for damage in combat, that REALLY needs a makeover. I don't want to see 3 arrows sticking out of a dude's head while he's charging me. If you shoot an arrow into a guard's leg, he should lose the use of that leg. Shoot him in the arm, he drops his weapon. Shoot him in the eye, he's dead. So the same goes for handheld weapons. If I manage to hit someone in the throat (which, with the revised combat system, would be very hard to do), that should be the end of the fight. If you impale your enemy, that should be the end of the fight. You should have the same weaknesses, so you have to be very good with a sword to defeat an enemy who is good with a sword. It would make for some great battles rather than just mashing the attack button and holding block every once in a while. You'd actually have to think about where to swing, where to block, where to move, and how to time your attacks.

If you had only read the last post in the thread, you'd have seen that had already mentioned local damage, and the fact that it is already very possible and has been done.

BY BETHESDA even.

Terrible choice! Yes, it has locational damage, but the armor choices have no effect on specific locations, its just a total damage reduction by XX%. Plus their is little choice/customization in what armor you wear.

The best example i can think of would be Mount & Blade. A little indie title, but with a mass of armor choices. As well as locational damage effected by the armor. Example: Helms have say 50 head protection... If you were hit in the head, it would do 50 less damage, however if you were it in the bare chest, you receive full damage.

Edit: keep in mind, i said both locational damage, and better armor selection.

:/
I know it's important, but leave science classes to those who want to learn science. Most people wont become scientists so it's useless to much of the population. Besides, who needs to evolve? They did things right in the Middle Ages B)

@ daniel

ya the armor idea is great if they want to make a new amazing combat system which relies on more "realism" BUT too bad they are gonna just make it a % value thingy and not actual armor you get cleaved by an axe in the head and your "armor" takes away 40% damage, lame

You know, it's actually beneficial to teach science to the uninterested. There are all kinds of people who were uninterested untill they were introduced to a particular branch, and only then became interested. We do it because, frankly, a lot of people are only uninterested because they won't give it a chance.

NOT really in the middle ages people were paranoid religious zealot xenophobes that could be ruled by a rock, and they died from simple illness and believed anyone who wore a funny looking hat.

I do agree however that the school education system is still BUGGED and needs "patches" because when I got to the university 70% of what I learned was pretty much useless for my BA, and I learned that maybe schools should start focusing on what children are "inclined" to learn and just relax the focus on things they are not accepting, force teaching DOES NOT WORK, now I have 2 degrees and people think I'm a genius in my field, but throw a math problem at me and I will scream in agony as my brain slowly decays .

but yes although schools now are not that great they are still better than nothing, and if you want to learn a craft instead of going to school, go ahead its not wrong BUT only if you country/community offers good work/opportunities for people with more practical skills instead of BAs and PHDs.

You raise a good poi... no, still wrong. At least in my district. The science teacher talks, and no one pays any attention at all. I like science, I think it's cool... but it's not something a lot of people would like to make a career out of.


I try to think of the positives... Back then, gold was everything. If you didn't have it, you died. The best way to make money is to learn a trade, either by being self-taught, or being taken on as an apprentice by someone. Note, there is a difference between being an apprentice and going to a school. A HUGE one. Schools are more modern... which is not TES-style. TES is inspired by the medieval theme, and so they'd take the apprenticeship route. So the only place you'd see kids learning is if you went into a blacksmith's shop, or a cobbler's, or a cooper's.

Besides, apprenticeships are better, because your teacher focuses on YOU and the consumer, not the thirty other people in the class. So you can add this to your list of why I hate schools, and why the Middle Ages were better...

But yes, Vadagar, your right on those points... but you kind of overdo it, don't you think? As long as you went to church, never questioned the church, etc. and payed your taxes, that takes care of a lot of your problems. And if you get an illness, just drink a good ol' fashioned fantasy potion...

... or just pay an apothecary to do a mediocre job.

P.S. those hats are stylish and you damn well know it B)

Farmers need science. Alchemists need science. Merchants need a little science if they want to be knowledgeable about the things they're selling. Blacksmiths need science. Pretty much all the commoners in Tamriel need science.

And trust me, the kids who don't pay attention in high school regret it later when they end up stupid and behind the rest of the world.

I really hope they will make an actual LD system this time around. And I mean NOT just "getting hit in the head does 250% damage", that is neither realistic NOR well playable.
I actually want to remove all "damage+" modifiers, there should just be factors. There should be a "maximum possible damage" you can do with a weapon, that would be if your opponent is no moving, has no protection and you have full time to aim, and no that's not damage to health but damage to the body, actual injures. Slitting someones throat, stabbing someone in the heart or in the brain would be the "maximum damage" pretty much as they are almost 100% guaranteed to be deadly.

But other things too, you could bleed out from other injures, wounds can inhibit moving and fighting severely, pain can mess with your mind and body and so on.
There would be relatively simple systems to pull this off but they SHOULD go into detail. And really if you say "this is not necessary", take a look at Oblivions level scaling chaos and Morrowinds "god like player" problem, those are the outcomes of just applying numbers and modifiers, there simply is no way to balance them, especially in a open world sandbox game. LD systems and actual armoring can be "self balancing".

Detail into that would also go a long way toward making fights unique, even between the same types of enemy. A highly trained elite soldier is obviously going to be more dangerous than the average bandit thanks to their higher combat skills, but will also be better able to ignore pain and fear from injury. The longer the enemy can go without being crippled by their wounds, the greater the danger of you succumbing to them first. I want to see dangerous enemies and think to myself either "hm, those are the emperor's personal guard, I'd better not mess with them" or "I'll need to come up with a good plan of attack" instead of "those guys look fancy, I probably can't take them" or "I've got better equipment, therefore I can win."

Exactly.
As I often said, that angry guard dog is just as dangerous when you're "level 50" than it is when you where "level 5", the difference is by now you likely quired the skills to fight it off and avoid it's own attacks, but if it rips your throat out you're just as dead no matter what.

The elite guards would know advanced combat moves, know how to move as a team, have high stamina and good gear. The random bandit will maybe at most have the clothes they wear and possibly just soft leather, little training and possibly just daggers but mostly clubs or small hatchets as weapons.
A fight between untrained opponents can be over fast because it's easy for one to make a mistake that leave him open, a fight between masters can last long because they know how to avoid mistakes. For example, a bandit you knocked to the ground might be beaten by slamming down on him with your sword because he's stunned by the surprise or too much in panic, the elite guard could roll out of the way or even kick the sword out of your hand when he's down. THIS should be the difference, not that one can take a million hits and the other "just" 500.

Yea all that is fine, i was just responding to the saying that schools would have no meaning to the character personally, there would be regular schools as well as the things i was saying.






To you and Lord Umbrage. Im not saying learning to read, write, and spell are bad, on the contrary learning is a very good thing. But seriously we're not going to use at least half the [censored] we learn in school. If we become historian we might use the history and english. If we become scientist the science and math. etcetera etcetera. The rest we dont use just becomes hours on hours waste of our lives.

Farmers use science, but not all that much. They just read the almanac. Of course, I live in the city, so I can't possibly know anything about farming.
Alchemy is a sect of science, so in a way, chemists are scientists. Not many people are chemists...
Merchants don't need science. Reading or asking about an item isn't rocket science. Do merchants very often probe something to figure things out about? Maybe they ask the person they buy it from.
Blacksmiths... well, I'm not an expert at blacksmithing, but don't they just heat up the metal for a time, bang on it with a hammer, then keep doing the process 'till their done? Lots of science there, but they don't really learn about it...
The commoners of Tamriel don't need science, unless their alchemists.

Anyways, I'm not saying learning about science is bad... it's just pointless for most. Most. But not all.

Yea it might be nice if i actually had to think about a battle before i go charging in, instead of i have da leet armor i winzor! You could be wearing the best armor and have the strongest sword and still get your ass handed to you. A farmer with a pitchfork could possibly kill a knight if he gets in a lucky strike and the knight has poor reflexes. To be a good fighter, i think, you would have to have great reflexes and actually know where to put your swords and how to handle it. The problem with all this is we wont actually be learning how to use the sword so they cant really make the fighting all that advanced. I think the best they could do is as you progress add "combos" where you hit certain buttons maybe in certain places and it does what a person actually trained could do. As long as its not like button mashing but actually doing combinations maybe it wont be as bad as most games with combos idk. Feel free to add to this as it isnt really that well thought out >.< seeing as i dont really know how to fight or how they could add advanced fighting into a game.

The current argument is about whether education is important?

Anyways, A huge step-up for the armor system is more slots and more variety in the options. Think about the icon for the sorcerer pre-made class, I want the ability to look like that

A little bit of science is still science and if a blacksmith just heats up metal and bangs on it without adding any sort of flux or understanding the science behind it, all the stuff he makes will svck.

And for the thing you said about merchants... reading or asking about how something works is learning science, duhhhh.

I don't think there should be a schoolhouse at all because this isn't the colonial age, but a lot of commoners use science.

If you had said, "rocket science isn't very important" I would have agreed with you. But, you said science in general is useless. Science is as old as religion. You can't have society without science.