TES V Ideas and Suggestions # 183 : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:14 am

Welcome to TES V Ideas and Suggestions # 183

This thread is for ideas and suggestions for TES:V and to keep all the general discussion in one series of threads.

To discuss major issues, use a separate topic, such as the leveling topic.

Other general topics on this will either be closed or moved here.

Please at least try to read the previous few threads to avoid too much repetition: Note, there has been a lot of off topic and unnecessary discussion in past topics, please ensure that any posts you make in this thread are suitable to the subject being discussed. The moderators will be keeping a close eye on the content.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1085256-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-thread-%23160/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1086102-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-thread-%23161/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1087658-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-thread-no-162/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1089003-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-163/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1090035-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-164/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1090714-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-165/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1092018-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-166/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1094008-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-167/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1096483-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-168/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1099525-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-169/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1102208-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-170/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1104003-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-171/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1105916-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-172/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1107672-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-173/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1109526-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-174/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1111409-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-175/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1112090-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-176/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1112872-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-177/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1113694-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-178/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1115083-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-179/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1116332-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-180/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1117711-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-181/
http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1118847-tes-v-ideas-and-suggestions-182/

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:00 am

What kills it though is if the game outright ASKS you "do you want to be a warrior, mage or thief"... where is choosing freely in that?
This is why I want FULL freedom in that, no primary skills, no secondary skills, no minor skills, JUST your skill list and what you "are" is determined by what is most exercised. That way you're not railroaded into anything but can still have a starting bonus for the ones you want.

Speaking of that, directly assigning your skill points would be nice, just have a upper and lower limit and maybe by "how much" you can alter a skill.

EDIT: The thing is the "big 3" thinking as no "overlapping skills", there is a clear hard cut between each set which often makes no sense at all.

There might be 3 general directions, but I think the classes kind of overlap, I mean there are more than just mage/warrior/thief, not that I don't understand your concern. I usually go custom, but that is mostly because I like making up my own stuff. I feel it's okay to railroad as long as your the one laying the tracks

In general I guess I don't feel the need is there, given that you can just custom design your own class. The only thing I see as railroading, is the overall style Combat/magic/stealth, but even then it still pretty vague, but like I said, I would like a fourth one.

However, the whole advantage of the B3 is that they provide some sort of "boost" or otherwise advantage in the chosen field, I guess this could be made customizable, so that you have, like, 5 or 10 skills you can choose to boost, and than name your custom field.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:05 am

I'd also add NOT having to chose a class in the beginning, instead leave the class just open as a sort of "title" you can give yourself.

On one of the two posts I mentioned selecting "Unemployed" or "Adventurer" as your starting profession. Of course, that'd require your freelance adventurer to have some kind of skill or leveling bonus, in order to not give employed individuals too much advantage.

I'd also like to re-stress that one of the important aspects of the occupation system I proposed is MOBILITY. An unemployed individual could get a job, and someone with a job could get a different job.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:47 pm

Before I meant warrior in a more narrow context, like the stock class.

Moreover, the rope could be a viable solution, but would you have to wait longer (pulling it up and all)?

Well a warrior would likely have the necessary strength so maybe if you think like being able to pull your bag up about 2 meters a second for a "normal" house wall you'd maybe have to invest 4 - 5 seconds to pull your stuff up, honestly that shouldn't be TOO much. Of course if you want to invade a huge tower it would take longer, but climbing up the side of such a thing would itself take a bit already so the "pull up your gear" time shouldn't be that drastic in my opinion.
Actually having a bit of time pressure would be good, if you have to make it up a guarded castle wall taking your time could be dangerous so you have to decide, take all your gear with you or only what you can really carry.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:46 pm

It seems to me fast travel is lacking in something, it just feels like its just a loading screen. I like the the tips and lore i get, but it still feels a bit choppy.
I know it most likely wouldn't fix it, but maybe one could be able to access his/her stats menu while it loads your screen, or have a small amount of ( like 3 at most) random battles in random places while you were on your way.
It just assumes you won them all or never had a random encounter during fast travel.
It just feels wrong that a nord who never practiced magic, other than drinking potions, can teleport. I like the random battle idea for that simple purpose
This also applies to the non-magical world of fallout, where they have mines, guns, and radiation.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:59 am

To reply to the general idea of warriors not being able to climb things, I believe I've got the answer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdYxHbuUASQ

More seriously, though, if a character doesn't have the skill to gain access to somewhere, my general response is "too bad". It's not like they're going to put all of the gameplay on top of high cliffs. If you're bad at Security, you get flummoxed by locked doors. If you're not inclined toward Alteration, that floating object is probably too far away. If you stink at Speechcraft, that bouncer isn't letting you in. Making multiple easy access points cheapens the accomplishment of doing things, as well as blurring the lines between classes and making skills that much less important. I got enough of padding every dangerous corner in Oblivion.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:46 am

On one of the two posts I mentioned selecting "Unemployed" or "Adventurer" as your starting profession. Of course, that'd require your freelance adventurer to have some kind of skill or leveling bonus, in order to not give employed individuals too much advantage.

I'd also like to re-stress that one of the important aspects of the occupation system I proposed is MOBILITY. An unemployed individual could get a job, and someone with a job could get a different job.

Now that I think about unemployed, how about the chance to choose a new class later in the game?

Wait wait, this can be made into something, how about you need to build up your skills, to get to choose a certain class? So you work towards a certain goal, and than gain the benefits of that class when you've got the skills to bare the name.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:05 pm

Now that I think about unemployed, how about the chance to choose a new class later in the game?

Wait wait, this can be made into something, how about you need to build up your skills, to get to choose a certain class? So you work towards a certain goal, and than gain the benefits of that class when you've got the skills to bare the name.

basically play it like D&D, where you build up levels until you can multiclass or change, but if you change you trade the Side-effects of the old class for the side-effects of the new class?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:16 am

I for one love the classic, D&D style class system. It works fine in pen and paper games, why can't it in CRPG's?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:56 am

I for one love the classic, D&D style class system. It works fine in pen and paper games, why can't it in CRPG's?

I think the problem is pen and paper RPGs are way, WAY more flexible in such matters.
You see a P&P game is limited by statistic but the game setup is only limited by the players imagination.
A CRPG can take WAAAYYYY more statistics into mind but is limited by what the programmers put into it, and sadly also to what fantasy the players put into it (and sadly many game developers seem to think they absolutely HAVE to limit the possible statistic down to the same amount you'd have in P&P game).

While in a P&P game you could just make up a new set of skills for example that is nearly impossible in a CRPG. Just look how much code cracking it would require to add ONE new skill for TES, I don't even know if that's possible yet.

This is also one reason why I'd have the "skill groups" system I suggested a while back, you can freely add or take away skills. In the construction set you could easily have a list for skills that has a dropdown for "add new" since they don't need to be clearly dividable by 3 (on more reason why I'd kick the "big 3") and their bindings to attributes can be more "fluent".

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:45 am

Make it available on Mac.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:02 pm

I think the problem is pen and paper RPGs are way, WAY more flexible in such matters.
You see a P&P game is limited by statistic but the game setup is only limited by the players imagination.
A CRPG can take WAAAYYYY more statistics into mind but is limited by what the programmers put into it, and sadly also to what fantasy the players put into it (and sadly many game developers seem to think they absolutely HAVE to limit the possible statistic down to the same amount you'd have in P&P game).

While in a P&P game you could just make up a new set of skills for example that is nearly impossible in a CRPG. Just look how much code cracking it would require to add ONE new skill for TES, I don't even know if that's possible yet.

This is also one reason why I'd have the "skill groups" system I suggested a while back, you can freely add or take away skills. In the construction set you could easily have a list for skills that has a dropdown for "add new" since they don't need to be clearly dividable by 3 (on more reason why I'd kick the "big 3") and their bindings to attributes can be more "fluent".

well why not have that for modding, and the ability to merge classes, for the consols.
or even better since the 360 and the PS3 have hard drives, why not have a backdoor to the game that allows mods made for the pc to work on the consoles, so your way can dont have to worry about appealing to one persons tastes, but allow for everyone's.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:05 am

well why not have that for modding, and the ability to merge classes, for the consols.
or even better since the 360 and the PS3 have hard drives, why not have a backdoor to the game that allows mods made for the pc to work on the consoles, so your way can dont have to worry about appealing to one persons tastes, but allow for everyone's.

Ahhh that is the old point where I sadly have to say "will not happen".
The problem is not beth, they would be happy to have mods for everyone, the problem is M$ and $ony, they don't allow mod content on console UNLESS it is made by a in game modding function (level designer) and doesn't add actually new content.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:32 am

sad, sad truth, it also means those who like the consoles have to wait if they don't want to overspend.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:04 am

Get rid of spell scrolls! They are ridiculous and stupid! They DESTROY role-playing!

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:37 am

harder to level up and more levels. you can train other people as well as excepting training.
All of the separate minor magic skills have a little town within a large city of the collective mages guild.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:12 am

I just installed and played "Shivering Isles" a bit and really gotta say they did some good improvement there, the environments really feel well made and the bigger town does feel more like a town, though there still is room for improvement (the town still is rather small).

The caves also look a bit better but there's one big point I'd ask about.

A big problem with all caves and also most dungeons is that they all are made of right angles. None just curve slightly, they all take sharp 90° turns and the "rooms" of caves are rectangular. While that is not something you often outright notice is a subconscious thing, you just note "something is off" but not quite what.
So "simple" solution, have caves that are not 90° and have irregularly shaped rooms and passages, I think this is why many people perceived caves in Morrowind to be better since they DID have irregular shaped rooms and odd angle turns.
Also passages between cave rooms, again they are all too similar.

Actually I think what can describe it best is, it kinda feels like playing a old DOOM map where all rooms are made of rectangular boxes and hallways where all right angles. And that also is the problem why so many dungeons feel so "same".

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:47 am

I just installed and played "Shivering Isles" a bit and really gotta say they did some good improvement there, the environments really feel well made and the bigger town does feel more like a town, though there still is room for improvement (the town still is rather small).

The caves also look a bit better but there's one big point I'd ask about.

A big problem with all caves and also most dungeons is that they all are made of right angles. None just curve slightly, they all take sharp 90° turns and the "rooms" of caves are rectangular. While that is not something you often outright notice is a subconscious thing, you just note "something is off" but not quite what.
So "simple" solution, have caves that are not 90° and have irregularly shaped rooms and passages, I think this is why many people perceived caves in Morrowind to be better since they DID have irregular shaped rooms and odd angle turns.
Also passages between cave rooms, again they are all too similar.

Actually I think what can describe it best is, it kinda feels like playing a old DOOM map where all rooms are made of rectangular boxes and hallways where all right angles. And that also is the problem why so many dungeons feel so "same".

I hear you, this is what we mean with caves beeing the same. After playing for 3-4 days of the game, Ive noticed that the ruins is simplified and is just "copy & paste" enviourment.

What i'd like to see is something more variated in caves/ruins. Like the ayleid ruins, they are suppposed to be abandoned cities, but there is no track of evidence in them to convince a player that it used to be populated thousands of years ago.

Dungeons/ruins/caves needs a major upgrade.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:21 am

the longer you use a sword it improves with you so that it is not necessarily the strongest weapon that deals the most damage so if you use a glass sword for a long time it may get better than an ebony sword. You could also add in that the sort of blade you use is increased. for example if you only use shortswords they may eventually become better than longswords. However you may want to trade for a really experienced ebony longsword for a non experienced Daedric longsword because in the end it has a higher attack level when experienced.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:12 pm

Maggots and flies appear on bodies after death and slowly the flesh disappears as well as bones braking depending on where the person was hit.

Rain makes the round soggy and audible and physical effects can be heard/seen.

It snows. Same as above.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:19 am

the longer you use a sword it improves with you so that it is not necessarily the strongest weapon that deals the most damage so if you use a glass sword for a long time it may get better than an ebony sword. You could also add in that the sort of blade you use is increased. for example if you only use shortswords they may eventually become better than longswords. However you may want to trade for a really experienced ebony longsword for a non experienced Daedric longsword because in the end it has a higher attack level when experienced.

Wait... so is it a specific sword that levels, or just a type of sword? So like, could you use just any Ebony longsword or does it have to be that particular Ebony longsword? Either way, it doesn't make much sense. You can swing a silver sword as well as you could an iron one.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:01 pm

Um possibly have three dimensions to it then the more you use that sword you get better with that sort of sword, that exact type of sword and that exact sword. Like when you play on a console with a controller you get better with that consoles controller, that controllers set up (i.e. vibration or not) and you start to become accustomed to that controller's fault's and so on like sticking buttons.

Either way, it doesn't make much sense. You can swing a silver sword as well as you could an iron one.

Yes but it does not catch in the same place, it does not have have notches in the same place, it does not have the same density, length varies and so does the shape of a sword. Does a steel longsword look like a Daedric one? Do they have different textures? Does it have the same amount of gcm^-3 ?

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:56 am

Wait... so is it a specific sword that levels, or just a type of sword? So like, could you use just any Ebony longsword or does it have to be that particular Ebony longsword? Either way, it doesn't make much sense. You can swing a silver sword as well as you could an iron one.

I actually had an idea in that direction as well, the "individual skill". It's your skill with that specific item you currently hold simulating how you learn about it's little kinks and how it works (everything behaves slightly different).
So when getting a new item it can be better but you will need some "getting used to it" time.

» Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:05 am

I actually had an idea in that direction as well, the "individual skill". It's your skill with that specific item you currently hold simulating how you learn about it's little kinks and how it works (everything behaves slightly different).
So when getting a new item it can be better but you will need some "getting used to it" time.

Yeah, I remember Orzorn talking about that too back in the day as a replacement for the armor skills as well as applying to weapons. It sounds like the way to go.

» Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:04 pm

I just installed and played "Shivering Isles" a bit and really gotta say they did some good improvement there, the environments really feel well made and the bigger town does feel more like a town, though there still is room for improvement (the town still is rather small).

The caves also look a bit better but there's one big point I'd ask about.

A big problem with all caves and also most dungeons is that they all are made of right angles. None just curve slightly, they all take sharp 90° turns and the "rooms" of caves are rectangular. While that is not something you often outright notice is a subconscious thing, you just note "something is off" but not quite what.
So "simple" solution, have caves that are not 90° and have irregularly shaped rooms and passages, I think this is why many people perceived caves in Morrowind to be better since they DID have irregular shaped rooms and odd angle turns.
Also passages between cave rooms, again they are all too similar.

Actually I think what can describe it best is, it kinda feels like playing a old DOOM map where all rooms are made of rectangular boxes and hallways where all right angles. And that also is the problem why so many dungeons feel so "same".

ya they should ask the guys at UBISOFT to help them with the level designs.