How about varying degrees of limb damage?
It could range from slight numbness and pain (5%, little pain and slight weapon sway), to sprained or twisted (50-75%, slightly useless with a shocking amount of acute pain), to broken (90%, either completely useless or severe sway in aiming or swinging), to compound fracture or shattered bones (100% and completely useless). Of course, you'd need a pain meter, affecting endurance, speed, and willpower. In case anyone asks where I got this idea, I recently got over an acute bruise in my ankle, and today I wasn't paying attention and I tripped, landed heavily on my hands and knees, and now my hands and knees are bloody, and at first I couldn't move my wrists, then later I could turn a doorknob if I really tried, then we just happened to start a basketball unit in gym class (which I actually did better in than before :shakehead:), and now the pain is slowly diminishing, and I'm starting to be able to twist my wrists again. So effects like that would integrate well with a pain meter, I think.

Now for Snakes_Eternal's tip of the day, make sure there are no raised sidewalk blocks when walking.

As they are now, not really (no time at the moment to go back and check if your list does it different). Currently armor's only benefit is the defense stat, as well as the only major difference between types. Raising your armor skill does nothing to change this; the worst armor is still the worst and the best still the best. The increased defense doesn't add anything different alongside increased hitpoints from higher levels (i.e., when the skill would be high) and already increased defense from the superior armor a higher level character would be expected to wear. Its most significant gameplay impact is to make high-grade armor less useful for low-level characters, which doesn't make much sense to me, since when overcoming a challenge to win a good item as a prize I usually hope for the item to actually be good.

Which is only relating to the current armor style. If you implement the skill into a system using more complicated armor stats, as some advocate, it becomes trickier.

All for that


Different kinds of damage should play into this as well, an arrow will only make a small but very deep wound, the effect however is that muscles affected by this are "blocked" and can't move well. This would go away when the obstruction (arrow, splinter, shrapnel...) is removed but doing so carelessly can cause a larger wound.
Cutting would obviously sever muscle and skin as well as causing strong bleeding, injures caused by blunt hits can numb muscles and cause several smaller bleedings in deep tissue.
Bones can exist purely as theoretical damage locations that are only affected when enough force is applied to them, a cut has little force on the bone as it releases it's energy by cutting the muscle tissue, a blunt hit transfers a lot of energy into the bone.


There should be a meter for pain, yea, but not a visible bar that fills up. Pain could be directly visible in the "medical screen" (something I'd like to see, where you can see your whole characters and his injures to treat them) simply showing where your character feels most pain. There could also be a pain threshold, when that is exceeded it's likely a character can pass out.

Pain itself can be represented with those methods:
1: Increased use of stamina for actions
2: Loss of focus, hits become more off center, magic spells are harder to perform, actions requiring precision become harder
3: Luck reduction, the luck attribute (which I'd remove from the visual and actively influenceable attributes, instead having it constantly raise and lower depending on how your character feels) can go down through extreme pain meaning your skills get influenced by this as well.

Also pain could play into adrenaline bursts which could save you in a life or death situation.

I really, REALLY would love to see bethesda implement CryTek3 into Elder Scrolls V.

I think you mean CryEngine3, CryTech is the company that makes the engine and -Cry- games.

Yeah. sorry for my mistake.

Agreed. I'll repost the section I did back when going over ways to have effects they're conventionally immune to affect the player too:

Regarding mentions of level, I've also been one of the people advocating the removal of level-gains in the past. However, while I do still support that, I think keeping track of an overall level can be useful for a few reasons, including resistance to these kinds of effects. Since attributes are based entirely around skill benefits and character type, it becomes both unfair and unrealistic to have only certain "classes" allowed to be brave or strong-willed. Character level seems like a fair representation for a "stronger" individual, who can resist pain and fear better than weaker ones, without being required to pour effort into Willpower, which is primarily associated with magic.

Interactive world
? With enough force, anything can be damaged/destroyed
? Realistic fire/water effects (inc. erosion, burning, waves, rapids, etc.)
? Weather effects (inc. wind sway effects, accumulation and drying/draining of rainwater, thunder/lightning, etc.)

More tangible NPC relationships
? Everything you do/say to or around an NPC will affect their disposition toward you; different levels of disposition may "unlock" certain actions/events with some NPCs, such as quests, gifts, connections, etc.)
? You need to talk to an NPC to learn their name
? Randomly generated NPCs with limited dialog options to help fill out some big cities
? Give NPCs distinct personalities

More fluid and dynamic animation/action system
? Different walking/running animations depending on the slope of ground
? Wider variety of combat animations
? Improve character model animations for pretty much everything

More expansive and diverse environments
? Make each area feel truly unique, fantastic, and epic. [see trailer at bottom of post]
? More varieties of caves and ruins (quartz, diamond, obsidian, granite, crystal, ice, mine shafts, Falmer ruins, etc.)
? Put cities/towns at places that make sense based on the land (at the mouth of a river, next to a bay, in a sheltered valley, etc.)
? Some awesome architecture and natural phenomena for us to drool over and explore

Wider arsenal of weapons, armors, outfits, spells, books, plants, and miscellaneous items
? Pretty self-explanatory. Basically more content to help strengthen the RPG experience
? Decrease the difference in power for most armors and weapons and give some perks and benefits for every armor type
—? A high leveled survivalist should be able to use Leather Armor more effectively than Mithril Armor if he wants to; don't constrict players to choosing the "best" metal of their armor class.
—? Minimize the difference between every armor type (don't completely destroy it though) and also add certain benefits to using a certain type based on things like duration of use, armor training, racial perks, and so on...
—? e.g. Give Mer a small bonus when wearing Elven Armor; give anyone who wears Iron Armor for more than 10 total hours a unique boost/perk while wearing Iron; create special armor experts who can be paid or persuaded to pass their knowledge onto the PC, therebye giving a boost/perk when wearing that armor type.
—? For a character with no racial benefits or perks/boosts, Mithril would still be a bit more powerful than Leather by default
? Make the best armors the most difficult to obtain, and allow different ways of obtaining them (money, power, stealth, speech, luck, etc.)

Changes to travel system and mapping system
? More viable alternatives to fast travel
? Only fast travel to "key" locations on main roads (e.g. cities and major landmarks)
? Can pay for guides or wagons to take you to some other locations from those major areas
? Create some minor penalties to discourage fast travel (chance of being robbed/attacked on the way, have to pay some gold to fast travel, etc.)
? Ability to buy maps with special locations on them, including some unmarked special areas
? Ability to leave notes on map

Updated mount system
? More responsive and fluid riding mechanics
? Maybe alternate mounts (as long as it fits the lore)
? Mounted combat
? Make mounts a viable alternative to walking / fast travel

Improved sounds
? More sounds of nature (thunder booming, wolves howling, birds chirping, powerful waterfalls churning, etc.)
? Improved sound effects (echoed footsteps in large halls, creaky floorboards, etc.)
? More voice actors (don't care if they're celebrities as long as they can do the job; I'd rather have several voices per race instead of several races per voice)

More hand-placed unique things to discover
? Rare loot, easter eggs, monuments, etc.


This trailer is from a cancelled game that was known as Project Offset. I think a few regulars here will already know about it, but for those of you who don't, check it out. The footage is from 2006 or 2007, and it shows a lot of the type of thing I'd like to see in TES V... Fluid animations, epic battles on an epic scale, awesome sounds, great environments, fluid animations, etc.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/trailer-hd-project-offset/22926

To all those comments about injuries:

I really don't want to spend an hour waiting for my guy to be able to heal. I would like it, but only if my character could head to a doctor and then spend the next 7 days waiting (it would all go instantly) for his arm, leg whatever to heal. And, it would be really annoying to leave a dungeon in the middle of it to go get your joint reset. I can see the point, but I think it would get really old after about a month. A toggle would be really nice for this. I feel like playing a realistic difficult game: Injuries ON, and if I want to just play a casual character I can turn it off.

My reccomendation:

I'd really like to see different kingdoms within the game. Especially considering that the Empire just fell apart, I think the world will be split up into some different kingdoms. And each of those kingdoms could have a faction related to them, and you would become a knight or agent of that kingdom, and you would gain some great reputation bonuses in that place, but depending on if your well known to be a member of that kingdom you might be attacked by the soldiers of the opposing kingdoms. Obviously you could only join one of them, and it would be interesting to see different guilds within the kingdoms. Each kingdom would have its own Agent guild, Knight guild, and a Wizard guild. The classic guilds like the Thieves Guild, Fighters Guild, Assasins Guild (or whatever it will be called) and Mages Guild would be universal (except maybe the Fighters Guild or Mages Guild might be banned in some kingdoms). Personally, I would really like to see an Agents Guild, because I think it would be awesome to enter a hostile castle where everyone has orders to kill you, eavesdrop on their lord, and then escape, or to infiltrate a castle disguised as the gong man, and then steal the enemies battle plans. And as you progressed through that guild, you would become famous within your own kingdom, possibly earning a house or very small keep, but other kingdoms would try to kill you. It would also be really cool to be able to influence the kingdoms. Somewhere in the questline it would be possible to capture the enemies city or town, and you could increase their power within the province.

Well one thing that would also have to change is not being a "damage sponge" anymore. So far you really just soak up hits, there is no evading or dodging. In a system here actually getting hit is rarer but more risky this would work.
Also nobody said that injures have to be 100% realistic AND that they take realistic amounts of time to heal. Plus they could be "repaired" by bandaging them or patched by magic.

Like in Fallout 3.
:trollface:

Ehm. No. Except maybe for powerfull restoration mages. For other people it could be more like in Metal Gear Solid: snake eater

I'm like a broken record, but again I gotta mention the wound system of URW. It never got old for me, and it was quite realistic without being a PITA. Get into a fight, break a limb. Spend some time making a splint, maybe tear your shirt to get bandages, use you first aid skill and then wait for a week or so to get the wound all healed up. Suffer a penalty for every action during the healing period. (encumburance, starvation, dehydration, heave armor and wounds are calculated together to get a penalty percent)

You are punished for failing to protect yourself in a fight. I love that. Unlike TES series, this game isn't constant fighting, so it works. If TES4 had a wound system but the same amount of enemies, you'd be on ER most of your free time, or hiding in a hole patching yourself up. Unless, of course, you can heal yourself with magic. Which you can actually. (again I forgot the fact that Bethesda forces each and every player of TES4 to be spellcasters and healers. Great way to replace the Medical skill, right guys?)

I think a great addition to TES V would be an option to own your own store, i.e. become a pawn broker, with other adenturers coming to sell you items. I know this isnt an easy task and some basic logistical things would have to be worked out but who knows?

Also another great addition I would love to see is once you become leader of a guild (like you can in most cases in Oblivion), that you have more control over the guild, such as giving guild members tasks to perform or giving promotions. This would require quite a bit of work in the programming department but I personally feel it would be worth it. The whole goal would be once you may have completed all of the quests in the game you still have something to do, such as manage the guild you control or have a hand in the economy of the game.

I would like to also see an increase of non-quest related items in the game, i.e. having more dungeons that just exist and have no real quests related to them. This was increased in Oblivion from Morrowind but I feel having even more areas you can explore just because you want to would add to the feel of the open world game.

Personally I feel that having more of a hand in the workings of the world would add a whole new depth to the game. Not only do you adventure around the world solving problems but you also are needed to manage things going on in the world.

Just a thought let me know what everyone thinks (Im sure that wont be a problem.)

hmmm well

realistically if they take 10% of some the awesome stuff I read so far the game will be great

and honestly locational damage, better stealth/stealing, and better combat should be a given now a days so neglecting such core elements in ES 5 will be unlikely

/\

exactly

Proposed game:

Elder Scrolls V: Death Front

You begin as an old man screaming, then you are dead.

For some reason I can't tell if you're sarcastic or not. But it sounds like an epic fail. Unless you were reborn or something, I dunno....

you start off dying. then its an closed RPG, with a main quet that kills you at the end (an explination for your death) :wink_smile:

I hope not. TES should always be open ended: my Coc has, by date, gone into the first few years of the 4th era already (I think. three in-game years have passed)

One thing that would help the combat quite a bit for me is an enemy being scared after you sneak attack them. In Fallout 3 when I get a critical sneak attack but the enemy doesn't know where I am, they get pissed and start hunting for me even though they're limping and near death. Self preservation has to have more spread than just running when their heath is low. If you take a shot at them and they haven't seen you, they should duck into cover to figure out what's happening. Am I being attacked by a group, or just one guy? Do I even want to fight a guy wearing daedric armor?

Nice idea - well put.
I'd also add the severity of the deed (or non-deed) to the equation. A witnessed murder would spread between towns and social circles much more easily than a petty theft (which may not even make it to the town constable if the witness likes you).

But let's say we have towns that are hated rivels (think Hatfield's and McCoy's - bloodshed does occur but they love to 'best' each other more than anything else) and you murder a particular family head in one town. The murder would slowly make its way throughout the province but in the rival town you may be seen as a hero for slaying that 'outlaw' and even sought out to be given a special quest buy the thankful town's heads. Of course, this thankful town is pretty far away and the town whose member you just murdered is on a hunting expedition for your hide. Once that rival town gives you the quest, however you're approached, in secret, by one of the heads of that town and he revels to you a plan to actually bring the warring towns together. He not only gives you ANOTHER quest but asks that you perform the first quest given without killing any more members of their enemy. This OTHER quest could be anything from escorting a future bride back into the hostile town without killing any of the town members (which you can do by disguising yourself and convincing certain members of that town about a marksman sharpshooting contest with their rivals somewhere out in the wilderness) to forcing them to band together against a third, more powerful, enemy that is threatening to wipe out both their towns. Which you would pull off by using maybe a big 'smoke and mirrors routine' or even a hack and slash, 'wasn't me, it was the boogie man' event. Of course, you'd have to get members of both sides to one place which you could do by using the afore mentioned marksman contest..., etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

This is just a piece of the sort of dynamic environment I was hoping for, and posted about, when Oblivion came out. I want a realm in which "I" feel like the computer generated NPC who has to fight, tooth and nail, to keep himself in the action lest he be left behind. Think - thieves guild initiation quest. Except through the whole game and to the n'th degree in complexity. "What do you mean the rats were already cleared out of your basemant by Joe Shmo Hero, but thanks for asking!" WTF!?! :clap: :clap:
I don't want quests that end in me bubbling in answer "A" (because that's the only answer) and moving on. I want quests in which I have to choose between A, B, C, D, and E, with some answers having IF/AND/OR consequences in that quest AND future quests. I think there are two main reasons why CRPG's don't do this yet. One is the 'bumper bowl' effect. In order to please 'the masses' the game gets watered down to allow anyone to be able to do anything no matter what his character has done in the past. I SAY, "DAMN THE MASSES!" I don't want my high level mage to be special just because he can incinerate goblins with the wink of an eye. I want him to be special because a knight CAN'T! No matter how hard the knight tries, that path has been closed to him because of the choices he's made with people, in factions, and during quests, long ago. He may be able light a torch from across the room or give a bandit a hotfoot but that's it! Of course the reverse would also be true where a knight would be able to lop off a goblin's right arm while drinking his morning coffee whereas a mage wielding a sword would merely kill the goblin with laughter as he lops off his own ear! Now some of these paths *MAY* cross early on. If your classic AD&D bard, for instance, wanted to learn a few damaging spells while still being able to pick up a longsword without being a danger to himself. He could never become a master at either no matter how hard he tried, though. I want to retire my mage, toward the end of his adventuring career, not because he's done everything in the game but because there's so much that he hasn't done. If I want to see what the other three quarters of the game looks like I'll have to start up an evil dark brotherhood assassin or a benevolent cleric and start another 75+ hours of gameplay. Just think of what the modding community could do with such a game. Dozens, maybe hundreds, of individual modules (adventuring mods) tailored to individual character types! Not to mention more money in Bethesda's pocket as they release DLC after DLC advancing the warrior's fame, or the mage's quest for power, or the thief's infamy, etc...
This brings me to the other reason why I think CRPG's aren't there yet - complexity. The type of complexity I am looking for doesn't exist yet in any game. It would definitely be a coding nightmare for even the most talented programmers.
Don't get me wrong, I think Oblivion is one of the best CRPG's in history. But alas, Bethesda (and all you wizard-like modders out there)...you gave me a glimpse of the moon and now I want it! :goodjob:


Sorry, got a little carried away (too much coffee this morning :woot:).

Edit - SS

^ that would be nice, but don't you think it would be a little over-elaborate?

Sorry...life doesn't come with training wheels. Neither should my game!
:rock:

This is a mistake many people in this thread seem to make.
It's not over-elaborate for you - it's over-elaborate for the devs. It's not realistic to expect something that big to be part of the game.

K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple, Stupid.

With something like relations systems, specially in such games, you can't really go too detailed.
With the "factions" system I mentioned before I'd go even further and say every single NPC should have his own relation to others, which as said shouldn't be too hard really since right now all NPCs already have their relation between you and other NPCs tracked, those would "just" be additional factors added into this.


As briefly mentioned before, I'd also do more than just "How much does the NPC like me" but several such factors that change how they interact with you and with others.
I'd add factors like:

• Like: How much NPCs like you, primarily influences how friendly they are towards you and how willing they are to lean your way. Merchants who like you for example are more willing to give you a discount.
  
• Respect: NPCs respecting you are more willing to take risks for you. Someone respecting you would defend you more in a dangerous situation.
  
• Fear/Trust: Fearing or trusting you can make you give NPCs orders or how they behave around you. A shop owner trusting you is more likely to let you roam freely and a NPC who trusts you can be ordered to do things they'd usually don't do simply because they trust in your word.
  
• This is a double edged sword, I put fear and trust as opposing values rather than separate ones, someone can either trust OR fear you. Fear is easier to achieve than trust but it's a bit more limited. You can't make someone who fears you jump off a cliff to a certain death if you threaten to kill him, he'd more likely go down fighting because then he at least stands a chance. Also a shop owner fearing you might behave different, maybe instead of letting you roam freely he can be made to leave and "ignore" stuff you take, but there might be a limit how much he'll take of that.

Additionally to those there should also be "personalities", those can simply be a list of different values that can either match or mismatch with others and modify behaviors. Someone very Xenophobic for example might dislike and distrust people more who are "outsiders" so not from his direct environment. Some people might automatically trust you more if you wear the right clothing like uniforms for example.