yeah vanilla svcks balls.........im using a combo of TIE and WAC which works beautifully.

the problem in game is that you can literally out mage the archmage of the mages guild within a couple of ingame months even if all your magic skills were minors and you started with them all at skill level 10. that makes no sense whatsoever. i want some people to have advantages over me. if im playing with warrior skills as majors then experienced mages should always be able to out magic me and assassins should always be able to out poison or out sneak me. it is completely illogical that i get out of prison with crappy skills and can take beat everyone in no time flat. this is why i always premake my characters since levelling like this is stupid.

i dont want to be able to walk into a ruin even at high levels and be able to wipe out a room full of xivilai withough breaking a sweat. i hope they include companions in the next TES game. i deliberately nerfed my health and magicka regen and increased damage modifiers precisely to that im not some medievel Liberty Prime. using companions helps cause my mage chick can cast spells that i cant and my warrior dudes can wear heavy armor which i have svcky skill at. it makes the game more world centric instead of player centric.

I'd rather have a regional system, an area with difficult bosses that will always scale with you and thus are always dangerous and challenging, much better than everyone are always challenging

A mix of Oblivion's leveling and the regional leveling would be great for me. It was hit or miss with Oblivion's leveling. I was either hopelessly underpowered or Akatosh himself. A balancing out would be nice.

Personally, I don't think Oblivion's level-scaling is really all that bad. The only part I hate is unique items being permanently stuck at one, weaker level zone due to obtaining said items at earlier levels. Aside from that, I think Bethesda just needs to tone it down a bit and go back to a Daggerfall style of player leveling(eliminating number-crunching and forced skill increasing for better stats) and I would love the whole level-scaling system almost exactly as it was in Oblivion. I'm perfectly fine with leveling up in Oblivion, as it actually does make me feel more powerful, except when I face Oblivion gates. I was never able to become the Grand Champion of the Arena at level 1 as people always claim is possible. With some skill calculations and partial efficient leveling(I don't like always worrying about leveling efficiently, but I try to get at least +3 increases for all my stats per level), it was possible for me at about level 10. Also, for most creatures, the scaling stops at levels 20-30, allowing the player, who should be able to get to at least level 45, to start getting ahead. I think people exaggerate the flaws of Oblivion's level-scaling. Perhaps they believed the load of garbage that are claims about level-scaling resulting in no character progression and never tried to actually get about level 30 in the vanilla version of the game, but after level 30, the player character becomes powerful enough to be noticeably ahead of his/her starting point, but while still keeping some of the game's challenge and sense of danger. Goblins are the exception to this rule and all my experiences have been without recharging my enchanted weapons(role-playing purposes). I recently started a battlemage character(my first non-knight after a year and a half of playing Oblivion, unmodded) and he has no issues with trapping souls, using Daedric artifacts, and recharging his own weapons, unlike my knight characters. I feel weak right now, but I am curious to see how powerful my character will get by having all the advantages of my knight character(including heavy armor), minus KotN equipment and Fighter's Guild benefits, combined with magical skill, the recharging of enchanted weapons, and Daedric artifacts.

Regional would be better.
But then it changes the leveling dynamics.
You HAVE to level to proceed through the game

Isn't that kind of the point of RPG's. Although I see how a regional system could be bad though.

Honestly, I think these leveling discussions are a bit moot, considering that Fallout 3's leveling system was just godlike. It was above and beyond what either Morrowind or Oblivion (or Daggerfall or Arena) ever would have done. It was simply perfect. You fought weak enemies, you fought strong enemies (when I saw a Deathclaw at level 5 I [censored] my pants), and you fought average enemies throughout all the levels. Once you got to level 20 you did feel powerful, but some thing still posed dangers to you (like a large group of enclave soldiers, especially if they had a mind controlled deathclaw). The game's loot was perfect. It gave you weapons of all sorts all the time and still have placed unique loot like the medic armor and whatnot. It was perfect, and I think it was because Oblivion was an experiment with leveled lists, and Fallout 3 was the perfecting of that.

I agree. Although Broken Steel kind of unbalanced it with a Tesla Cannon with tons of ammo for it, a deathclaw scrambler device which makes them not attack you (I think), level 30, and probably some other things.

Similar advantages could be easily applied to TES with things like hitpoints being tied to endurance instead of level, combat skills literally improving ability in combat instead of arbitrarily making your swords and armor sharper and harder, equipment revolving more around different abilities than direct quality scales, and so on. You would become more powerful, but dangerous situations wouldn't just stop being dangerous.

Regional, I did not even have to think about it.

Yeah, but expansions are just excuses to give already powerful characters more powerful items. Its not like the Nerevarine needed Trueflame or Hopesfire after he/she had Sunder and Keening.

It indulges the golfbag mentality some players have. Now if the Adoring Fan had acted as a caddy.
"Ah, an ogre. Hand me my No. 9 Axe."

:thumbsup:

Level up like the Morrowind style is best.

Regional sounds good.

idk but i had a thought that could be just a minor fix for magic related skills. basically to prevent spamming, you cannot cast another of that same type of spell (i.e. summoning, illusion, etc.) until your previous spell has ended. for example, say i summon a scamp, bethesda could either choose to set a time limit between casting another summoning spell, or i have to wait until my previous scamp returns to the plains of oblivion before i can summon another.

this is just a quick thought, please don't rage.

The classic level up system is classic for a reason. it works. I would like to see Bethesda do a modified level up system. Oblivion's leveling was a failure in the highest regard. There is a reason the wiki calls it "the leveling problem" and people have various "work arounds" and there are mods to get rid of it or change it. It was terrible and people who like it are either casuals or fan boys. It doesn't make sense that you can level up lockpicking buy running errands for Galaxy New radio [Fallout3 reference.] However, it doesn't make sense that you can level up your character by making a bunch of ham and cheese potions either. Morrowind did a good job... I would like to be able to loot something really strong "early." I don't mean you should be ableto find a dagger for a level 10 character by doing the main quest as a level one... but if you explore, get a little lucky, you could happen accross one instead of it never spawning. Various levels of enemies should exist. it's the only way that makes sense.

I like the idea of learning by doing/training, but there is a reason why bioware games are successful as well. they do characters "right" [not that elder scrolls does them wrong, but they don't do them as well imo.] To me, Bethesda's strength is their world creation and story telling. they have yet to have great game play. Their combat has never been all that good. In morrowind you can hit things and miss... in oblivion and fallout it is still clunky first person combat. How come a 100 skill with small arms still has a very hard time shooting an AK47? I'm sorry, but 100 skill makes me an expert. i should shoot like 10 skill still.

I'm rambling a bit, but the main point is Bethesda needs to recognize that not everything they do is made out of gold and take some of the great ideas that other game developers use.

I liked the Morrowind system best (static world with preset level of monsters but with certain degree of randomness in the loot based on PC level) but I do believe that the best Bethesda system is the Fallout 3 system is the most fun and surprisingly the most oldtime RPG system too. I remember the Might and Magic games where you could actually go everywhere right from the start, but you would be well adviced to go area by area to find foes closer to your level. Or in Darklands (probably my favorite all time RPG) where your health, strenght and overall stats were pretty much set from the start (hence no levels) but your skills would increase with use, the baddies would be kind of static too, and over time they would not help you increase your reputation, and only by seeking out the tougher missions you woulda actually advance the story.
Thats a bit better system than the standard Dungeon and Dragons where an orc will be a threat for the first couple of levels but jus a nuiscance latter on, sort of how you never feel any sense of danger when batman is kicking some street thugs butt, but when the Joker comes along its a whole different story.

So you get to practice summoning -and- combat? Sweet.

First of all you shouldn't of made a poll for something with so many varried answers among thousands of people who don't know what they really want. But anyway.... (I answered other.)

I was recently reading a magazine about fable III and their leveling system. There weapons level with the character and as they use it. There weapon will actually change form depending on what they kill too. That's where I got the idea for some of my thoughts on the leveling.

So instead of the morrowind system where everything is already a set amount on stats presentation and everything, and from oblivions broken when big scale system of creatures level with you and items disapear and new ones come in, and finally fallouts modified copy of morrowind's system though it uses visable xp you take the biggest positives of what everyone loves.

We all love how you can run swords or guns clinched into your hands into a highly guarded place kill everything solve the riddle behind it and grab just one piece of amazing equipment like a dadric helm or fallouts MIRV. But, we enjoy the realism that not every place we run to is going to have amazing battles. The famous oblivion example of fighting a level 35 bandit with full dadric armor is ridculous. So in this regard just give us what we want. Morrowinds attitude of right out of the game if your brave enough you can get some of the best equipment in the game and have it to where as you keep using that piece of particular equipment your skill with that increases and levels up not based on level caps but based on use and experence with the weapon. If I am using a steel longsword and i contually am killing rats then my battles with them should be gradually getting easy and my battles with say a lich king which I have very little experence with would be that epic bad@$$ dadric armored bandit we found in oblivion. Since I am contually using this same sword and just keep repairing it you start to nottice changes in the sword chips on the cutting edge that cannot be repaired and ect.

It sounds complicated but bealive me its far simpler and would fit in with the elder scrolls natral skills that it has.

For a little visual aid.
Longsword level 25
rat fighting skill 25 ( im not the best with words but id leave that to the good people making it)
Troll 0
Wolf 4
mudcrab 10

{Upon leveling it up it will pop up one of those notifications in the top corner or w/e that tells you something like "You are more proficent when fighting rats." }

I think this type of system maybe a little better discussed and broken down would lead them on to the answer that could make the elder scrolls like it was from the third bethseda's main focus, because lets face it, there looking to fallout.

I missed that so much when I first played Oblivion. I disliked the fact that all loot everywhere leveled with the player. I longed so see some hand-placed loot. I longed to be able to travel to the Cryodiil equivalent of the Tower of Dusk and see a Bouyant Armiger wearing a full suit of glass armor. I longed to find the occasional enchanted axe in a tree stump or an enchanted ebony broadsword under a bed in a guard tower. Whether I actually took the time to get this stuff or not didn't matter. Just knowing there was cool loot out there to find and maybe I might be lucky enough to stumble across it made adventuring so exciting. That excitement was taken away in Oblivion.





That's an interesting idea. But I have to say I think pop-up messages are a tool of the devil. The fewer messages on my screen the better. I hate to use this word but I like to immerse myself in the world, in my character, in what my character is doing, and anything that yanks me out of that world is bad as far as I'm concerned. Really bad. But if a way could be found to provide the information that did not involve spamming messages on my screen it might be an interesting approach.

Like Morrowind's dialogue?

I actally dont mind those pop ups if they give a bit of flavor to the game, for example a little message when you enter a particular location or find a unique weapon, sort of the old dungeonmaster type of mood setting

Then again, Daggerfall suffered from pretty much the same problem.

But I think, as CABRON mentioned, that pop ups can add flavor is used correctly (as in Daggerfall, where smells, sounds, and looks where described upon entered a dungeon).

I voted Morrowind-style. I like wondering if my level 2 is about to walk into a cave full of atronachs and get destroyed. I like fighting to the bottom of a dungeon and finding something inexplicable like the Bittercup, and learning a week later what it's for. I found Chrysamere and used it for ages before I ever did the imperial legion quests. It's a great feeling to find static, worthwhile treasure in an area. I HATED the way it was done in Oblivion -- fighting bandits in glass armor guarding chests full of wooden utensils and pointless bits of cloth or a crystal ball worth 2 gold.

Sure, I could sell the bandits' armor, but that has never been the point to me. I don't care about the gold. A.) bandits shouldn't all be wearing top-end armor, and b.) what they're wearing shouldn't be more valuable than what they're guarding. I don't want the valuable armor for its own sake. I want the sense of wonder and accomplishment from finding some out-of-the-way, unique item tucked someplace in the very bottom of the dungeon. I don't want all enemies to be around my level all the time. I want to feel like I've gotten stronger, and some enemies, such as common bandits, are no longer a match for me. When I'm level 50 and the things I'm taking on are the stuff of legends, common bandits should be cowering in fear -- not donning a full suit of daedric armor and running fearlessly at me. If they're that loaded, why on earth are they guarding a chest containing 5 gold, a clay pitcher and three torches? Do bandits have a tendency to form sentimental attachments to pottery?