Bethesda hasn't said anything about the future of the Elder Scrolls series, but one of the most common topics of speculation is where the next game should be set. Rather than trying to keep this in the official suggestion/discussion thread we've decided to give this an official home.

This discussion doesn't need to be tied entirely to geography, other setting details are also appropriate. However let's please keep this focused on the game world and leave other matters, like gameplay mechanics or NPCs, in the other thread.

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1515206-tes-vi-location-and-setting-speculation-19/

I'm going to make an update to this post with more ideas in a few hours, and I'm posting the first part to this new thread.

wall of text incoming:

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PART I: BACKSTORY

After Skyrim's plot, [censored] hit the fan all over Tamriel. In order to keep things neutral, the Dragonborn and all the Dragons simply fade away shortly after Alduin and Miraak are killed. However, the Dark Brotherhood still kills the Emperor, and the Civil War is 'resolved' by Tullius and Ulfric both killing each other at the same time, with all possible battles happening.

This means that Skyrim and the Nords become very, very unpopular with the rest of the world, leading to further fighting there, and the formation of a serious power vacuum in Cyrodiil. This leads to the military and political strength of the Empire weakening drastically, and while much of the Legion is dead or still fighting in Skyrim, the Aldmeri Dominion simply sail on up the Niben River and sack the Imperial City with little resistance. The White-Gold Tower is demolished, and with a Second White-Gold Concordat, the Empire is officially ended, and Cyrodiil is made Dominion territory. The Imperials are forced out of their own homes, rounded up into the ruins of the Ayleids to be kept as slaves or simply killed.

The Dominion, aided by the An-Xileel of Black Marsh, begin an invasion into Morrowind, greedy for more land and the purging of another 'impure race' from Tamriel. Cornered on all sides, Dark Elf civilization is overrun and extinguished after a long and violent war. In the year 4e239, the Second Great War ends at Red Mountain, where the final resistance of the Dunmer is thwarted by the Dominion, and the people of Morrowind are reduced to slaves for the High Elves and Argonians.

Skyrim was mostly spared in this Second Great War, but are forced to fight off attacks from within by the Falmer, who rise out of the ground and raid the holds, killing thousands before they were driven back. This, luckily, made the prospect of fighting a war with both the feral elves and the battle-tested Nords very unpleasant for the Dominion, who simply withdrew from Skyrim altogether.

Attempts to conquer High Rock and Hammerfell failed miserably, as the Redguards have a secret up their sleeves: sword-singing. Though poorly-documented, it was the Redguard's trump card in the First Great War, and what spared them from the Second One. This was thanks to the actions of one Stargel Hazdad, a priest turned solider who managed not only to find the lost hall where the art of sword-singing was taught in Hammerfell, but also managed to find a way to teach it to his men and master it himself.

His actions in both reviving the ancient art of his people, then using it to save them from invasion made him a national hero thought to be the coming of the HoonDing, especially among the tribal nomads and war-ravaged communities of the south. The royal houses and Crown/Forebear factions saw it as a threat of enormous magnitude to their power, and quickly found ways to appease Stargel and his Ansei warriors.

However, power and fame corrupt, and he began using the sword-singer army he created to enforce a strict code of law based on ancient Yokuda's system, backed by a single punishment for all crimes - swift death by decapitation. Under this law, only those who were sword-singers could own a weapon, and homosixuality, worship of non-Redguard gods, and being an outlander are all considered crimes. Though Hammerfell's old rulers, the Crowns and Forebears, are still very powerful, they fear the Ansei and allow them to act with impunity. To make matters worse, Stargel found a way to master the technique of Pankratosword. After demonstrating this technique by entirely destroying the island of Stirk with it in the year 4e212, agreements of peace were quickly forged between Hammerfell and the Dominion, with the city of Rihad given to the Thalmor as a bargaining chip.

After the Second Great War, the political climate began to settle down, and the Dominion went to work rebuilding on its new land and making it more suitable for the Altmer people. Slavery is widespread across the Dominion and in Black Marsh. In the wake of the great violence, military fascism has taken grip over much of Tamriel, excepting High Rock, Skyrim and Hammerfell, who managed to preserve their culture to some extent despite the many decades of war.

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PART II: CHARACTER CREATION

To recap, [censored] has hit the fan since your adventures in Skyrim, and Tamriel is now a much different place. It's been 50 years. A Second Great War happened, and resulted in the destruction of the Empire, the genocide and enslavement of the Imperials and Dark Elves, and the rise of sharia law in Hammerfell.

The year is 4e254, on the 25th day of Sun's Height.

Things are looking bad, especially for the new character you, the player, get to control. Why, you ask? Because he or she just got a disturbing letter. Your estranged twin brother has been killed in Sentinel, and the last letter he wrote has been delivered to you by his killer, one Stargel Hazdad. His last wish to you is to take his ashes and spread them to the sea outside Wayrest, the city in which you both lived. Imprisoned by revenge and the honor of family, your character takes the next boat to Sentinel, knowing not what awaits them.

The character creation process begins with the whole race/face/name thing before you step off the boat and onto the docks of Sentinel. From there, the game prompts you to open the various menus to get a feel for them, by which you, the player, learns about the letter that prompted your adventure in the first place. This begins the main quest, and lets you open the journal and save the game. This quest is very simple: inquire about your brother's death and find a way to obtain his ashes. Asking around Sentinel's bazaar quickly leads you to the tavern written in the letter, and you find the mosque where your brother died is on the far side of town.

As it turns out, the man who killed your brother was expecting you to come back for his ashes, and placed members of his order both in the tavern and outside the mosque, tasked to kill you on sight. Regardless of which place you visit first (or at all), the first set of these thugs will always try to kill you with sword-singing, and killing them will entice a strange Dunmer woman to speak to you. As it turns out, she knew your brother well, maybe even better than you did. He was not a business man/mer/cat/lizard at all, but a high-ranking member of the Blades, spymaster of Storm Talon Temple in High Rock. The Blades, she tells you, quickly reverted to espionage and private investigation soon after the Dragons left and the Second Great War began, and spread out to their old bases in High Rock and Hammerfell, with a new goal not to hunt dragons, but to revive the Empire and return peace to the world.

His 'business trip' to Sentinel was in truth a visit to Wind-Scour Temple to meet with its spymaster to discuss a disturbing report he had received, which he believed was of great importance. She knows this because she came to Sentinel with him, and in a moment of hesitation allowed him to be killed. For obvious reasons, he never was able to deliver this information, and your new friend wants you to take the letter you have to the hidden temple of the Blades. Not wanting to draw any more attention, she hands you a cryptic map, makes herself invisible, and leaves the city.

Going into the mosque reveals that the man who killed your brother also killed everyone else inside, and not a trace of your brother's corpse is anywhere. Your brother's killer did, however, leave you another letter, in which he tells you that your brother's body was thrown into the sea, and that his head will look wonderful on his wall in the Hall of the Virtues of War. He will eagerly sell it to you, should you live long enough to meet him in person, but the price is a duel to the death. What started as a grim mission to take your murdered twin home is now a quest for vengeance, wrapped in the intrigue of a brave new world, in which you will find power beyond your wildest imagination.

This finishes character creation, and you are now free to do as you please in the desert land of Hammerfell.

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Hammerfell is a cool setting too, and a warm desert with an African/Middle Eastern theme would be a cool contrast to cold and European themed Skyrim.

If they're going to persist with the "The Aldmeri Domion is the enemy" theme, I feel that a game in Argonia might make sense.

Keep in mind that I've always been counting on a Thalmor victory. As has been custom with factions seeking control of Tamriel, I feel that Argonia would end up being the last target because of it's difficult environment and people.

And yes, the Thalmor will exterminate whichever weakened political faction was left at the end of the civil war in Skyrim. Dragonborn will just vanish as all other protagonists.

Yeah, no. While I figure the Dominion is going to be a prominent part of the setting, I'd rather forgo the cliche "Bad guys take over the world" bit. Honestly, I'm tired of a unilateral power dominating Tamriel. For once, I'd much rather see the various proviences as their own entity first and foremost. Besides, the Thalmor magically curbstomping everyone and their brother is...both unrealistic in my eyes, and...well, dumb.

I mean, how the hell does the Dominion magically make it into Skyrim without crippling their own forces? Cutting a swath through Cyrodiil? Even in the (potential) problems Medes assassination holds, that's still much more easier said then done. And then you have to march through Pale Pass, which is an already treacous journey by itself. At that point, your forces are already worn out just trying to make it through the damn place, never mind from the previous battles facing back down south taking its eventual toll. Trying to sail around half the continent is pretty dumb to. You either try to cross into Ra'Ga waters and have your navy harassed by pirates the entire way, or try and go around the other side with no friendly ports around whatsoever.

If you're so against the Thalmor gaining the upper hand [which will happen, you'll see], the other likely choices are Hammerfell and Elsweyr.

Agreed. It is inconceivable that the Thalmor could realistically threaten Skyrim. Either the Ra Gada or the Dunmer would make a naval invasion impossible or an overland march across the Jeralls would meet with such resistance that even a divided Skyrim would come together and ruin any incursion.

Frankly, if the Thalmor are able to hang on to Valenwood and Elsweyr for more than 200 years, they'd be extremely lucky. Slow breeding and long lived Elves cannot sustain empires against fast-breeding Men.

If no attack on Skyrim is going to happen, why do both Ulfric and Tullius allude towards an imminent one at the end of their questlines?

Honestly, I'm just bored of human provinces. Hammerfell is the last place I want them to pick at this moment. Elsweyr would be perfect for a beast / elven setting.

Hope the kitties rebel, or something. That Void Nights business was fishy.

My speculation is still going with Hammerfell for TES VI as it is probably the easiest landscape to create. So it would be a logical step for a game developer to tackle harder landscapes when technology improves and do the easier landscapes earlier on. That way they can spend more time on quests, npc, equipment and locations.

Hammerfell will probably be an open terrain but still has much diversity and changes of altitude. The northern border will be quite green and the southern border tropical. Sandy desert in the west and higher grasslands in the east.

I received the opposite impression. The dialogue between Tullius and Ulfric suggested to me that the Thalmor FEAR a united Cyrodiil and Skyrim because of their combined strength. This implies military frailty and weakness on the part of the Thalmor - which is not surprising, considering they just lost two wars (one of them catastrophically.)

If the Imperium is reduced to one province - Cyrodiil - that's fine with me. If the Thalmor hold onto Valenwood and Elsweyr, that's ok too. But I would prefer every province be free. It can make adventuring there all that much more interesting.

You know what I'd really like to see in Hammerfell?

Some navigable rivers. Skyrim's rivers almost demanded a canoe of sorts, and the fact that we didn't have the capability grated a bit.

I'm not sure where these rivers would be in Hammerfell, though. If I were to guess, there should be a river constituting the border at High Rock and another at Cyrodiil. There might be others, but I don't know where.

Are there any hammerfell maps with that kind of detail?

Hammerfell's terrain is not all that different from the kittens', you know. They're a bit too similar, even.

Which perpetuates my fear that if they choose one of them, the other will never be featured in a future game due to being too similar.

The dialogues that I recall are the following

"You realize this is exactly what the Thalmor wanted" - dying Tullius

"We need to prepare for a looming war with the Elves" - Galmar / Ulfric when they win

"What I'm not so sure of is our peace treaty with the Thalmor, but we'll keep that between us" Tullius if he wins

I dunno, I'd think Anequina/Pelletine/Rimmen would be more jungle, with Hammerfell being more desert/caribbean...

It's pretty much mostly desert , 1/3 jungles for them, whereas Hammerfell is full on desert.

When the Khajiit talk about their homeland, they're always putting emphasis on their vast deserts, not much mention of their greenery outside of books.

Hammerfell is described as being barren and difficult to survive in due to the lack of rainfall. I don't expect to see many rivers inland. I am certain that there is a river running length of the eastern border with Cyrodiil. I think this as there seems to be a valley between the two nations and valleys are cut by water. The river could run underground for parts of it. My guess is that the source of the river is in the mountains in the north and it runs out to the estuary by Rihad.

The east of Hammerfell is discribed as windswept dry plain and much rockier than the Alik'r region of the west which is largely a sandy desert. The coastline of Hammerfell is described as being the only fertile area of Hammerfell with a tropical coastline along the south and over into Stros M'Kai. The northern border of Hammerfell is more green and parts are wooded as it nears to Skyrim. Plus we know Orsinium is now located in the mountains of the far northeast near the Skyrim border.

Elsweyr I am guessing is not anywhere as dry as Hammerfell as they grow fields of skooma there.

If it comes down to choosing between Hammerfell and Elsweyr, I'd think Elsweyr is the better pick because there'd be some more variety in landscapes.

I don't agree with them, but I've seen plenty of people complaining about the setting in Skyrim because the landscapes feel samey/depressing/snowy all the time, I'd imagine similar or worse complaints would arise for Hammerfell's constant desertlike feel. It's even less varied than Skyrim.

I wonder what the role of the Blades will be in TES6..


I can nearly Guarantee they will play some role in the MQ, as they have in every MQ since Daggerfall..

in Daggerfall the Agent was a Blade who the Emperor trusted enough to send him on that task, so they played the role of the Emperors most trusted operatives
in Morrowind we see the Blades more as Spies, the eyes and ears of the Septim Dynasty

in Oblivion they were the Emperors Body Guards, considered some of the best Soldiers in the Empire
in Skyrim, after they were officially disbanded in the WGC because the Thalmor saw them as a threat, a few survivors found a new purpose as the Successor to the Akaviri Dragonguard..


so what purpose might they have in TES6? as seen in Skyrim, they are not nearly as large or widespread as they were during the reign of the Septims, nor are they aware of any survivors other than themselves (Delphine was shocked to hear Esbern was alive).. perhaps the other provinces have a few survivors that will take a different path than the Blades we saw in Skyrim?

Not really. High Rock still has an exceptionally high probability of being the setting for TES VI or VII, and High Rock's landscape isn't too different from (Oblivion's) Cyrodiil's. If they implement dynamic seasons for High Rock, then there would be times where it's like Skyrim as well. The main difference would be that the architecture and naming conventions of High Rock would be inspired more by the French, English, Welsh and possibly Irish and Scottish rather than the Romans and the Slavs.

Besides which, Hammerfell is inspired by various cultures of the Middle East and Africa while Elsweyr is inspired by South and Southeast Asia, particularly Myanmar and Thailand. They would look and feel totally different from each other, much like how Black Marsh would look and feel almost nothing like the wetlands of Vvardenfell. I think they could totally do a Hammerfell game and an Elsweyr game without making them feel too similar to each other, and both of them can make interesting settings if done right.

The bigger issue though is that I'm not sure if anyone's ever going to be interested enough in doing a game in Elsweyr or if the setting will even be considered appropriate for a TES rpg. Right now TES is considered to be the story of the fall of Man to Mer, which currently limits the main games to human lands and maybe elven lands while practically outright excluding Elsweyr and Black Marsh from ever even being considered for possible settings. Also with there being only two human lands left, it brings a question over whether or not the rpg series will even continue past VII, and if it does, then there's the question over whether or not the games will still be set in Tamriel or be set on a new continent in the next Kalpa. So I don't know if Elsweyr and Black Marsh will ever feature in another game outside Arena and ESO. It's probably one of the reasons why ESO was made in the first place, because BGS realizes that some provinces may never get to be featured in the main series of games they do, and BGS had sort of promised in the past that every province will be covered eventually.

They'll most likely turn back into spies once the dragons go away. There's mentions of other bases in High Rock and Hammerfell, so they would spread out to there, thanks to the Dragonborn recruiting new members.

I remember these. But notice - the war isn't upon them; they're anticipating it for the future.

Also remember: there are secret documents one can find in-game where the thalmor describe their interest in supporting the Stormcloaks just enough so that Skyrim and the Imperium are not only separated but have resources tied up in fighting each other. I found this highly significant.

Remember: not only did the Thalmor - despite taking the Imperial city - eventually lose in Cyrodiil; in the end, they were massacred by a combined Imperial-Nord corps. This must have had very bad repercussions back in Summerset for the Thalmor's continuing political predominance. For the Thalmor to now want Skyrim and Cyrodiiil not only separated but at war with each other suggests that they absolutely hate the idea of them working together and also do not want to face either of them singly if their opponent is at full strength.

Perhaps there will be some sort of dramatic resolution to the Great War. However, it is definetily possible that the Imperials and Thalmor will simply square off against each other, staring daggers across some sort of Mannheim Line strung across the southwestern border of Cyrodiil.

I confess I have a long term preference for the series - one where the fighting between provinces and races simply stops. It seems so utterly pointless. I realize that makes me less fun

The first thing they need is a paymaster. If the next butt sitting on the Ruby Throne keeps the failed Penitus Oculatus and rejects the Blades, they'll be out of business.

Thus, for the Blades to be part of ES6, the Ruby Throne has to still be occupied by a Human - not an elf.

We will have to see what decision Bethesda makes on this.

I think we can 'work' with Hammerfell.

Like many have noted, there is a large, dune-filled western desert and then a high northern desert with grasslands to the east, probably on a plateau and resembling the steppes of Central Asia more than anything. There are mountains to the north and east. The northern chain would possibly provide streams that feed into a river flowing mostly west into Iliac Bay; the eastern mountains might - again, might - feed a smaller river that threads the Colovian highlands on the southeastern border and empties out near Rihad.

I would assume some additional streams from the northern and eastern mountains spill out into the western desert and eastern steppe, but end in a salty lake or even a salt pan (think of the Humboldt river that crosses northern Nevada and flows west.)

I suspect the terrain will be very varied across the province. Many have noted that the shoreline to the west and south is likely tropical. I remember seeing a map with a place called "Dragon Grove" to the SW. There is also a peninsula to the SW with a Rourken Dwemer city at its northern base (I think); that peninsula might be unique in climate, flora and fauna.

Elsweyr, OTOH, confuses me. I've read the lore about it having desert to the north and jungle to the south. The southern jungle makes sense; it's close to what is likely a rather warm ocean. The northern desert, however, doesn't. After all, just across the northern bordern in Cyrodiil, you have some moderately dry terrain on the western side and wetter terrain with thicker vegetation on the eastern; how could just crossing the border suddenly bring you into a desert?

Perhaps the Colovian highlands extending down into NW Valenwood filter out rain clouds so that very little moisture reaches NE valenwood and NW Elsweyr; but what of moisture moving its way not from the west, but from the SW or NW?

I think we need more detail on Elsweyr. I'll bet it is a VERY cool province to visit - maybe the best of all the unvisited ones. But I don't understand its topography.

The dragons might not go away, though.

Perhaps they'll scatter and live quietly in remote areas. But disappear again? I suppose it's possible, since Alduin got punched out; but once he was defeated, the dragons did not disappear from Skyrim.

I suspect dragons will become a rarely used story and plot element in future games. They would be foolish to make a nuisance of themselves.

I think that a change of "feel" is exactly what TES needs right now. Something a bit more outlandish than human lands, if you will. Take risks with new territory.
The last time they did that, we got Morrowind, and look at how many people have grown to love the Dunmer and their alien culture. I want that Morrowind experience of discovering and learning about a vastly different people that are not so conventional, you know? Hammerfell, Cyrodiil , High Rock and Skyrim are, well, remarkably human.

Black Marsh does sound difficult to work with, but the Khajiit, on the other hand, have always been very welcoming people, and their land is not exactly inhospitable to outlanders, so I'm sure there'd be a decent amount of foreign races out and about, before and after their alliance with the Dominion.
I mean, the Dunmer lived in near-inhospitable Ashlands and were huge xenophobics, yet it still made sense to have a game set there.

I don't recall the details, but there is a book called Words of Clan Mother Ahnissi, in which the Khajiit explained that their desert landscape was the doing of a powerful being, who resented their people and had the intent of making their lives more difficult.
That is just their own interpretation of their enrivonment's origins though, who knows if it actually holds true. It'd certainly explain why the desert might feel out of place.

It's not entirely unfeasible, right? It's not a though over the course of history there were no incidents of landscapes being reshaped entirely *cough cough Cyrodiil*.

I'd think the areas bordering Skyrim and High Rock would be far more Skyrim-like, at least in the maps they seem to be mountaineous areas.

Cyrodiil being a jungle has now been permanently retconned away... That's the only way they could defend the ESO disaster I guess (And I think the main reason MK left ESO at a very early stage, if only Zenimax had done the same...)