http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1516495-tes-vi-location-and-setting-speculation-21/

It's one of those two sides of the same coin type deals. Not only could it work, but it would be fun to play.

I like your style Cider, you were born for this job lol. Anyway, I have a suggestion about taverns, let's make them interesting, packed, full of life. It should be a place where travelers share stories and rumors, where you meet interesting figures and get a feel for the place your in, and let's make taverns different from one another. In Skyrim, they seemed to all look the same. Also, what about bringing cloaks and capes in the game? I think that would add a nice level of customization to the characters.

Frankly, I'm not sure why people see Ulfric as such a strong and thoughtful individual. He has never shown himself to be overly forward thinking or insightful. Emotional, yes. Charismatic, yes. His knowledge about his own people's history is spotty at best, he is poorly informed about the loyalty and motivation of some of his biggest supporters, he is not an overly competent strategist, and even Galmar seems to be able to manipulate him with some ease.

I simply don't see the portrayal in Skyrim as the Thalmor attempts to manipulate him backfiring. Instead, I see everything going as planned, and the Thalmor seem to agree... If anything, I think Balgruf's prediction is the far more likely outcome. Petty Jarl's seizing the opportunity with a lack of central authority to fight amongst themselves. Skyrim does not have a good history with independence, not since the collapse of its own Empire in the first Era.

It's annoying how even though the Thalmor and many other things were his creations in the first place, people will still try their darndest to discredit what he has to say about them.

One thing we have to accept about Ulfric:

By the time ES6 is released, the lore will certainly be updated to maintain that Ulfric died during the civil war and never saw its conclusion.

What will be VERY interesting to see is how Bethesda resolves the Civil War - whether Skyrim gains its independence or not being the most important thing, with consequences to Talos Worship, the Empire and the activities of the other provinces.

Also:

What are the Dragons going to do, collectively or individually? The fact that Dragons were at times allied with and protected by the Empire suggests that Dragons don't particularly care for Mer and may be instinctively opposed to a group such as the Thalmor.

Yes, I'm speculating. But consider: you never hear or read about Elves forming any kind of political relationships with Dragons.

Question to all of you:

What do you think is more DESIRABLE:

1. Skyrim being free

2. Skyrim still being part of the Imperium

?

That depends on what we consider to be desirable.

An independent Skyrim, with its almost certain decay into infighting presents a stage for more conflict and future story hooks. It also serves as a decent platform for forcing the continued collapse of the Empire, which we have been witnessing since Arena. Then there are story plots which can function as spin offs, focusing on the Empire trying to recoup from the shift in the balance by looking elsewhere... To Blackmarsh, Padonyia, maybe even Thras.

However, in-universe it is definately the least desirable of the two options. Numerically speaking, Skyrim's independence presents a weaker front against the Dominion, which increases their chance at victory. It also runs the potential for creating too MANY spin-off effects and plots, the resolutions to which may result in more deus ex resolution than usual.

Generally speaking, I think there's ample story opportunity without Skyrim gaining independence, and it causes more complications than its worth. In-Universe, it's also the less desirable of the two options.

Regarding Black Marsh and the Hist, I think a schism of the Hist would probably serve as a good threat. We have these sentient spore-trees that are all connected between each other, controlled by a hivemind, and in turn can control and alter the Argonians, along with serving a dream-sleeve like purpose. Now, something is causing Hist to go rogue, some serving a certain purpose while others simply go mad due to the disconnection. The Hero of Black Marsh, a mortal whose actions are foreseen by the hivemind, is given the means to combat this threat through ingesting Hist sap, allowing them to ward off the deadly diseases that protect the rogue Hist and resist corruption, or so we think.

As for the Sload, they definitely have an interest in Black Marsh. Due to rapid decay, acquiring fresh corpses is difficult. Due to this, the Sload seem to purchase corpses from slavers or shady merchants, such as in Soulrest, the City of the Dead. The Sload might also try and attain control of the undead Kothringi. Perhaps the Sload could be doing the will of the King of Worms, one of the few figures they revered? The Sload, aided by Tamrielic necromancers in plague doctor like gard, flying over the marsh in search of "specimens" could be interesting. Regarding underwater combat, I think it could be refined for a Black Marsh game, utilising spears, daggers and other such jabbing weapons, and spells having certain effects, such as flames boiling, or electricity doing minor effect damage to the player character. Underwater combat with the Dreugh always seemed interesting, but a secret war to defend Black Marsh's depths is on a whole different level. I think a schism in the hivemind could show off the darker side of the Hist without making the Hist look evil as a whole, just a holy and horrifying thing beyond our comprehension.

@ the_berserker from the last thread

"The martin kirkbride quotes have been thrown around so much that this objective has become pseudo fact. I don't know what the thalmor actually want, and yeah, landfall, the sci fi thing.

I think that it wouldn't be a franchise killer, it would actually be a pretty amazing move for them. The casual gamers mind may be blown at a mainstream game can do something so un-mainstream and crazy. Could also mix things up."

Growing up, and being Conservative, aren't necessarily the same thing though. In fact, they are often quite contrary. Growing up and maturity typify an exploration of one's limits, experiencing new ideas and interpretations, and a constant expansion of one's horizons. That's pretty much the exact opposite of being conservative...

Fear of change, consolidation and standardization of ideas, and rejection of anything outside a limited perspective is not a mature design scheme, it's the mentality of youth and the denial of progress. It promotes stagnancy and an unwillingness to try new things, and is one of the absolute worst things you can do to a setting. Games Workshop had to literally obliterate their fantasy world, killing everyone and every thing, just to revive interest in the setting, all because of their overly conservative approach to storytelling.

We may not truly know what the Thalmor's goals are, aside from elven supremacy and their hatred of Talos and his empire. Removal of Talos through banning the worship of Talos, as well as further dividing and weakening the empire, practicing a divide and conquer strategy. It all hinges on Skyrim, it's secession would break the back of the Empire. Even without a Stormcloak victory, Skyrim is made a liability for the Empire. As for their next move, they would probably attempt to undo the alliance of Crowns and Forebears, and perhaps drive a wedge between the Nibenese and the Colovians. The non-Dragonborn Medes have no divine right to the Ruby Throne, and the Nibense resisted Titus even after he took the Imperial City. Now, with the signing of the White-Gold Concordat, the Nibenese Cyrodiils might be tempted to overthrow the Colovian Mede Dynasty.

As for a game set in Alinor, I think jumping to the heart of the Dominion, the magical tropical isles, might be a poor move. I think a much smoother transition would be in order. Two games, made one after the other, continuing the story arc, with the second one set in Alinor. The first of the two could be set anywhere, from Hammerfell, revolving around the Thalmor unraveling the secrets of the Rourken Dwemer, perhaps finishing grand plans that were already set in motion, or to Black Marsh, where a plan to alter time by way of the Eye of Argonia and destroying the Ur-Hist in the Dawn goes horribly wrong, or to Valenwood, where a desperate attempt at controlling the Wild Hunt unleashes the Wild Hunt to end all Wild Hunts, or even to Elsweyr, where a plot involving the Halls of the Colossus threatens all of time. Storywise, the Thalmor serve better as a conduit for the great threat, rather than the threat itself.

Does anyone have an idea for a potential story for an Alinor game? A potentially world-ending threat?

It's not necessarily trying to discredit him (well a couple of people try to, but they're the vast minority) so much as it's reminding people that he doesn't actually work for Bethesda anymore. His writings have had a huge influence on TES, but with him not working that influence is now much less direct. Some people take his word as absolute on anything TES, and sometimes people need to be reminded that while he's still an influential person, he's not actually making the lore anymore.