Actually, no. IMO, Skyrim's Helgen opening scene is one of the strongest in the series, it has that "Wow" factor few RPGs have managed(Fallout 4 failed in that regard). Entering Seyda Neen was obviously very memorable, too, but I can't really say the same about exiting the Sewers in Oblivion. I remember being impressed at the time, but it didn't form a lasting impression. I guess it depends on the player.

Seriously? You get what is basically the unimpressive main villain shoved right into your face coupled with atrocious voice acting from every character on the scene. Instead of letting the story pan out normally, it's like Bethesda decided to throw everything at us.

No. First of all, you don't know that it's the main villain. There's just an unexpected dragon attack when you're about to die. It adds urgency to the world from the beginning, makes the beginning memorable, regardless of the voice acting. Personally, Morrowind's opening is my favorite in the series--there's something magical and immersive about it--but objectively, Skyrim's has that "wow" factor that Oblivion's, for example, lacked.

Rasul, I think you might have misunderstood funnybunny's post. He was referring to the scenic vistas we see after character creation. He was saying that our first glimpse of Skyrim after the cave is less impressive than our first glimpse of Vvardenfell after the Census Office or our first glimpse of Cyrodiil after the sewers. Skyrim's execution scene in Helgen has nothing to do with the point he was making.

thank you Pseron, I am glad someone understood the point i was trying to get across sometimes i am aware i may not always pick my words in the best manner to get my point across properly

Uhh we do know that is the main villain. The loading screen before the opening sequence literally shows and tells you that. Not to mention if you've been following the game before the release or if you were one of those who bought the collectors edition with a straight up statue of Alduin then there not much to say. Fallout 4 was the one that actually had urgency given the fact that you got your baby robbed and lost your world. It's a far more memorable opening as far as I'm concerned.

I don't recall seeing a loading screen that told me that a dragon will attack when I'm about to die. And I'm among those people who avoided story spoilers on purpose, so your point being? If your surprise was ruined by the spoilers, it's neither here nor there and has nothing to do with Skyrim's opening scene vs Oblivion's.

As for FO4's beginning, personally, I couldn't care less about some baby that didn't even fit into my roleplaying. I guess different strokes for different folks.

I think what he meant by the loading screen that tells you the dragon is the Villain would behttp://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:SR-load-And_the_Scrolls_have_foretold.jpg, which does often show up when loading a new game..



either way, I was not talking about story presentation which is what you seem to be arguing, as Pseron pointed out what I was referring to in my post

Really? I mean, i understand Oblivion... but Seyda Neen was impressive? My first thoughts leaving the Census office were along the lines of 'Well, this place svcks.'. I found the mountain vista in Skyrim was far more impressive than a little shanty town. Vivec was another story altogether, but most of early Morrowind was underwhelming.

But anyway... the Media Blitz with Skyrim was poorly handled. Particularly in regards to the whole Dragonborn thing. Todd Howard basically spoiled the entire story in several interviews, ruining any thought of suspense or intrigue. They handled Fallout 4 much better, so maybe they've learned their lesson... but it awaits to be seen. None of the splash screens themselves outright spoiled anything, though that damned Book of the Dragonborn sitting on the table in the dungeon certainly didn't help.

Part of what made Morrowind so good was the fact that you didn't have any clue what was going on for most of the story. You didn't know who to trust, who was right or wrong, or even who the villain was.

Did you even read what I said?. I stated that the loading screen before the intro already tells you who the damn main villain of the game is and then of course you see him within like 5 minutes of the intro. Honestly you don't even need spoilers to know what is going to happen.

Regarding Black Marsh's ruins, and looking at the variety of dungeon types present in previous games, this is what I've come up with: In the end it comes down to functionality. You have your large dungeon-crawls, with dungeon bosses, traps and the occasional puzzle. Then you have your tombs, your crypts, your mines, smaller, scaled-down dungeon-crawls. And so forth. While it would be nice to include everything lore-friendly, it comes down to functionality and workload. Some dungeons, such as Velothi Towers and Imperial Forts, serve a purpose aside from being dungeons, serving as dwellings and even parts of settlements. Knowing this, these would be my picks for Black Marsh's dungeon types, aside from the Clockwork City:

• Imperial Forts - In the late First Era, the Second Empire constructed various fortresses and prisons across the border regions and coastal regions of Black Marsh. Many of these fortresses fell into disrepair and were abandoned during the early Second Era. When Tiber Septim peacefully incorporated Black Marsh into his Third Empire, he had many of these fortresses rebuilt, or, as it was in most cases, had new fortresses built over their sunken remains. Now, once again, most of these fortresses are once more abandoned. Those that are not are occupied by various pirates and necromancers. As one descends deeper into these ruins, they can observe how the architecture changes from old Imperial to far older Cyrodilic.

• Ayleid Ruins - The ruins of the Barsaebic Ayleids can be found all along the western Black Marsh, though, they are mainly found in the northern highlands and the border marshes. The vast, underground tunnels and chambers of the Wild Elven ruins have long since been flooded, making it near impossible for non-Argonians to explore them, without help, of course. Aside from Dreugh and other aquatic creatures native to Black Marsh, these ruins are mainly inhabited by Ayleid undead, both of the spectral and skeletal varieties, usually controlled by powerful Ayleid Liches. The Ayleid foundations of Stormhold and Gideon are supposedly connected by a series of ancient tunnels, connecting to other Ayleid ruins as well.

• Kothringi Capitals - The ancient fortress-cities of the Kothringi, these would be found mainly in south-western Black Marsh. Known for their vastness and complicated layout, these ruins would have long since been reclaimed by the marsh, though, they would still provide refuge for those that seek it. These strongholds would be inhabited by hostile Argonian tribes, various pirates and Kothringi undead - Thin Ones. Essentially Kothringi desperate enough to turn to unnatural means to preserve themselves, some turning to necromancy, becoming mindless thralls to necromancers, Sload and Liches. Well-preserved Kothringi silver arms and armor, can still be found in these strongholds, but by no means unguarded.

• Xanmeer Ruins - Ranging from great stepped pyramids, to shrines to nameless deities, Xanmeer would be the ruins of the fallen ancient Argonian civilisations. Located throughout Black Marsh, but mostly confined to the interior, these ruins would be some of the largest in Black Marsh, decorated by various carvings and more often than not, overgrown by Hist trees and other vegetation. As for enemies, I think skeletal corpses animated by parasitic vegetation, along with abominations created by the Hist and various hostile Argonian tribes, would roam these ruins, guarding the treasures of the ancient Argonians, along with the Hist that lie at their hearts. Hist-based monsters would serve as dungeon bosses.

• Daedric Shrines - Constructed by the Cantimiric Velothi, Dunmeri rebels that fled the persecution of the Tribunal, these bizarre and dark ruins dot northern and eastern Black Marsh. Though, the builders of these ruins are long since gone, they remain, inhabited by cultists, foolhardy bandits, various Daedra and recently, Velothi guerillas, led by the remnants of House Dres. Offerings of gems, gold, arms and armor can be found at the altars to the various Daedric Princes, though, by taking them, one would risk incurring their wrath.Interestingly, while these ruins are avoided, the closed Oblivion Gates serve as monuments to the An-Xileel's famous invasion of the Deadlands, decorated with beads and feathers.

• Velothi Towers - Also constructed by the Cantimiric Velothi, these small, secluded strongholds serve as a different purpose than their counterparts in Vvardenfell. More often than not, they serve as dwellings of mage-lords and cultists, possessing shrines, laboratories and often ancestral tombs. Velothi Towers can often be found in or near Dunmer-influenced settlements, but also in often odd, hard to reach places in northern and eastern Black Marsh. Inhabited by Dunmeri undead, both of the spectral and skeletal varieties, Velothi guerillas, led by the remnants of House Dres, and if the rumors are true, powerful undead mage-lords belonging to House Telvanni, possessing powerful artifacts and ancestral armor.

I don't want to get into an argument about what I would prefer or what you would prefer. I also did not mean to suggest that TES should move away from being an open world RPG where you can create a wide range of characters and interact with the world in a wide range of ways.

My point was really that Todd and the rest of BGS are creative people. I am sure that they feel some pressure to release commercially successful games. But I think they are also motivated to push their creativity and develop new ideas. My thought was that BGS may want to sit on a new TES until they feel like they can bring something quite new and innovative to the series---something which is not just new to TES, but new to open world RPGs in general. For all that I enjoy TES and I think they remain the best realised open world RPG series around, they have not been especially innovative---all of their main elements have or had been done before in other games. That is not intended as negative criticism. But my suggestion was that this may be motivating BGS to want to postpone development of a new TES until they can be the forerunners of a new direction in open world RPGs.

Sorry, I haven't played it.

Following up on your last thought: "a new direction in open world RPGs." -

What could such a new direction encompass?

As an example: maybe making ES6 more episodic could hold promise. In other words, rather than having to wait 5-7 years between games that consist of a huge vanilla game and two moderate sized DLC, we might get a 3 game series, each game being large in and of itself.

Let me outline a potential approach to this:

Let's say ES6 is in....Hammerfell. OK - the 1st installment covers 75% of the province. The 2nd installment covers the other 25% and then includes the Abacean Sea islands, what's left of Yokuda, and Thras. Part 3 crosses over into certain parts of High Rock and Cyrodiil, along with a major exposition of Orsinium Nova up in the far eastern mountains, smack up against the Skyrim border (in essence, a Dragontail mountains game.)

This may be far too ambitious and grossly unbalanced. I'm sure that a 3 chapter approach could be done better than what I have suggested.

What I'm really getting at is that an episodic approach might free up Bethesda resources to build deeper storylines and adventures while also providing an opportunity to offer a fuller game experience that is geographically greater than a single province. In other words, Bethesda's team might be able to do significantly more work AND of higher quality if they didn't have to 'vomit up' one single, massive game followed by two DLC that are, in essence, patches with stories that they simply couldn't fit into their schedule deadlines for the vanilla game.

If the above isn't clear, please say so and we can discuss further.