Bethesda hasn't commented about the future of the Elder Scrolls series, but one of the most common topics of speculation is where the next game will be set. Rather than trying to keep this in the official suggestion/discussion thread we've decided to give this a separate topic.

This discussion doesn't need to be tied entirely to geography; other setting details are also appropriate. However, let's keep this focused on the game world and leave other matters (such as gameplay mechanics or NPCs) in the http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1540762-official-beyond-skyrim-tes-vi-66/

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1540764-tes-vi-location-and-setting-speculation-27

Wouldn't coming into contact with a Memory Stone result in the player character learning a sword-singing technique? Cyrus learned sword-singing just by having a Memory Stone slipped under his pillow while he was asleep. So in that case we start off with the Shehai as a freebie like the Dragonborn learning the first word of Fus Ro Da. If we so choose we can train with the Ansei before embarking on the main quest. We hunt down Memory Stones to learn new techniques and then return to the Ansei to train in these new stances therefore unlocking them in combat.

Hopefully Bethesda doesn't lock them behind quest lines of different factions. I don't want to have to join every guild and faction to be able to become a Master Ansei.

If we do go to Hammerfell, visiting the Yokudan Archipelago would be a good landmass DLC.

He did? Huh, didn't know that. Anyway, yes, I think the player character could obtain a Memory Stone early on the main quest, and delivering it to the Ansei would be the way by which they would join the Order. They would gain the ability to conjure an unsustainable Shehai, and would require further training to both hone their skills and as they progress through the Shehai Shen She Ru, they would learn new techniques of Sword-Singing. If the player character is going up against Sword-Singers, they should be able to able to effectively fight them. How would the Shehai work gameplay wise anyway? Sort of like a bound sword with limited duration that can increase with upgrades, but has a longer recharge time? Also, perhaps it could have effects, such as a projectile power attack like the Bloodskal Blade, or be an unblockable attack, expect if it is blocked by another Shehai?

As for the Memory Stones, I think they'd be mostly strewn about Yokudan ruins, with very few being in the possession of certain factions and individuals, sort of like the Stones of Barenziah. They are precious artifacts after all, worth a king's ransom.

The way I picture Sword-Singing working is similar to what you said.

The Spirit Sword is your bread and butter. You summon it to moderately boost your stats and it becomes a conduit for performing other more advanced techniques and stances.

So you summon the Shehai and then you toggle the "Wind Stance" like one would switch between Shouts. The Wind Stance would make the player faster and stamina regeneration faster. Your attacks sends out wind projectiles that staggers your enemies. If you charge your sword swing long enough you can even throw a mini-tornado from your sword which would envelop your enemies in a gust and carry them away.

If you're severely outnumbered you switch to the Earth Stance. The Earth Stance makes you incredibly slow, but makes you incredibly resilient to physical damage literally turning your skin to stone. All the weight of your attacks staggers your enemies. Charge your swing long enough you strike the ground with your spirit sword shattering the earth creating a mini earthquake and dropping all your foes to the ground.

Yeah, I really think that sword singing should be delegated to Ansei/Hiradirge or whatever the main questline factions are.

I'd really like to see some Star Wars-esque contrast between the lighter/more benevolent use of sword singing vs. the darker/more malevolent use of it. I think that the Ansei and Hiradirge could provide a perfect contrast for this, with the player being able to choose which side to embrace. The Hiradirge, if I recall correctly, were believed to be responsible for Yokuda sinking due to pankratosword, right? Perhaps the Hiradirge's sword singing style in particular could be more destructive or cause consequences upon use. The ultimate technique of the Hiradirge could be the pankratosword, whereas the ultimate technique of the Ansei could be something more protection/defense-oriented, perhaps. Like a barrier of tens upon tens of soul swords that fly around the caster in a swarm, slicing any incoming projectiles and slamming all incoming enemies backward.

Perhaps in a main quest where one took the side of the Hiradirge, in order to gain power through the use of destruction/darker sword singing, a consequence could be literally part of Hammerfell being destroyed. Maybe Gilane or Taneth would be basically ruined through the pankratosword if the player took this path. The incident itself could be handled similarly to Megaton in Fallout 3.

The Hiradirge wouldn't necessarily be evil. They could just be a group of priests who want to secure power over Hammerfell's future through destructive use of sword singing. The Ansei by contrast could be all about only using sword singing when necessary and protecting those in need.

Carrying this forward from the previous collection of posts:

If the protagonist in ES6 enters Hammerfell from Cyrodiil and does so 'on foot', one would have to assume that the border crossing would occur close to Rihad. If, OTOH, the protagonist enters Hammerfell by sea, then the game could start pretty much anywhere on the coast of the province.

However, for discussion's sake, let's assume that the protagonist enters Hammerfell by crossing on a ferry across the Brena to Rihad. What are potential scenarios for us getting introduced to the character and the main adventure/crisis facing the province?

I'll do this by stream of thought:

1. As the protagonist crosses the Brena by ferry, Rihad comes under attack. The Thalmor have broken the peace and are attempting once more to take Rihad as a bridgehead to the rest of the province and to provide another flank against Cyrodiil, forcing the Imperials to stretch their forces further. Right at the beginning, the protagonist must choose to flee either towards the Thalmor or towards the Ra Gada for safety. This has consequences, as it influences the course of gameplay, the factions and NPCs encountered, available quests/adventures, 'alignments' and so forth.

2. The protagonist is an unattached traveller who is crossing by ferry to Rihad and finds himself accompanied by a diplomatic mission from the IC whose task is to re-establish good relations between the Empire and Hammerfell. On the crossing, the PC meets the emissary and finds him to be a likeable fellow. Suddenly, just before or after reaching shore, the party is attacked by unknown assailants. The PC and the emissary are separated, and the PC is either captured and taken away or escapes the skirmish. He begins tracking the attackers afterwards, both to recover his belongings and to discover the status of the emissary, to whom he has taken a liking.

3. Replace 'emissary' in #2 with 'royal princess' of the Imperial court, who has been sent to Hammerfell to cement a renewed alliance between Cyrodiil and Hammerfell and was destined to marry the King, the crown Prince or someone else of great importance among the Ra Gada (either the Crowns or Forbears.)

4. In #2, the emissary gives a box to the PC and tells him "you MUST get this to the King of Hammerfell (or the leader of the Forbears) even at the cost of your life! Everythign depends on it!" From there, the adventure begins.

In all the above cases, there are multiple factions at play who have a critical interest in the outcome of diplomatic initiatives between Hammerfell and Cyrodiil. A short list of these interested parties includes the Thalmor, the Forbears and the Crowns. Many other parties would have an interest as well - Skyrim (assuming it's no longer part of the Empire), Pyandonea, Thras and High Rock.

Questions, comments, critiques, expansions or anything of the sort so far, folks?

@LegateZan - Thank you.

It had occurred to me that in the last three ES titles, the game would begin with the protagonist getting mixed up in something that had some importance, but was connected to and overshadowed by the Main Quest of the game. In Morrowind, the PC begins by pursuing a pardon for his crimes in order to secure his personal release; in Oblivion, the PC is a prisoner who gets mixed up in the assassination of the last Septim Emperor; and in Skyrim, the prisoner is about to be executed along with a group of Stormcloak rebels and their Thu'um-using leader.

These early events are the mechanism for launching the player onto the main quest and have a distant attachment to it - if I remember correctly in all cases, these early events are all TRIGGERS for the MQ.

I think with all of the above beginnings to a Hammerfell ES6, a rousing tale of high adventure can spring, including the triggering of some world-menacing phenomenon. What could that be?

In Morrowind, it was the rise of Dagoth Ur and his use of the Heart of Lorkhan and the Akulakan (sp?) to conquer all of Tamriel. In Oblivion, the assassination triggers the attempt by Mehrunes Dagon to draw Nirn into Oblivion. And Alduin's awakening & the return of the Dragons is the threat in Skyrim.

Perhaps the Hammerfell threat could be a prophecy of the fall of Man. The Crowns, Forbears, Imperials, Thalmor, Daedra and Aedra would all be involved in the 'play', of course.

Yes? No?

I think that when talking about Hammerfell's main quest, we should discuss the protagonist: the HoonDing. The player would, at least according to some mystics and priests, be the manifestation of the HoonDing, the Way-Maker, God of Perseverance over the Unfaithful, acting through a mortal to make a new way for the Redguards, be it carving a bloody path across then-Volenfell to establish a new home or return the Redguards to the study of the Shehai Shen She Ru. The HoonDing, aside from being traditionally a Redguard, has very little determining features, aside from the last HoonDing being "either a crown, a sword, or both".

Thus, I think that the player character would essentially be simply an initiate, later a master, in Sword-Singing, leading the Order of Diagna through the crisis. After a hard-fought victory against the fanatical armies of the Devotees of Satakal which resulted in the near destruction of Ska'vyn and the decimation of the Order of Diagna, rumors of them being the HoonDing begin to spread through the secluded Alik'r tribes, who begin to flock to Ska'vyn's aid. Without much of a choice, they must play the part of the HoonDing, even if they don't believe it themselves, in order to stop the Devotees of Satakal. They would also be taught the Walkabout by some blind hermit living in the Dragontail Mountains, in truth the spirit of Diagna, and when all's said and done, they will be asked "You've resurrected the Ra Gada, but I fear the might of this warrior wave, should you lose control. Without your guiding hand, this blade will cut wildly, and it may cut all that we've built in twain." The HoonDing would be implied to replace Diagna sometime in the future, and perhaps usher in the rise of an empire, or cause Hammerfell's demise.

Personally, I think the driving force behind the Devotees of Satakal would partially be the fall of Man, or rather, trying to avert it, but failing miserably at it. The Devotees' leadership would be being manipulated by a "Calling", some claiming to be the whispers of Sep, others claiming it is the Dwemer, calling out to them from beyond creation. In truth, this is the Numidium, or rather, what's left of it. A clockwork carcass, hidden deep below the earth, with broken limbs trewn about the southern Iliac Bay, creating craters that nullify magic and emanating a strange, harmful radiation. The Devotees believe that the Numidium will be their Pankratosword, a weapon that will end the kalpa, and allow them to transition into the next, as they've done before. Using this "Calling", they've rallied the Alik'r tribes to their cause, and have infiltrated the Crowns and the Forebears with their hollow-faced men. The player character would have to wander the sun-forged wastes of the Alik'r, delve into the clockwork halls of the Dwemer and master the art of the Shehai Shen She Ru, to prevent the Time of Ending and the Brass-God's return.

So you're essentially asking what the mythical threat would be.

Hammerfell or Volenfell was originally Dwemer country. Whatever Clan Rourken, who are infamous for creating artifacts like Volendrung and Spellbreaker, left behind is my vote for the mythical threat.

The Thalmor and their fanatical proxies, the Devotees of Satakal are trying to unleash a powerful Rourken WMD on Tamriel.

The Forebears, Crowns, Lhotunics, The Devotees, and the East Empire Company via the Penitus Oculatus are all vying for influence in Hammerfell. The other factions are so entrenched in their intrigue that they fail to notice the figurative mask worn by the Devotees of Satakal.

The remants of the Blades and the Order of Diagna are the only ones alerted to the threat and make the connection between the Devotees and the Thalmor who ultimately want to unmake the Aubris using Rourken technology/WMD.

The upper echelons of the Order of Diagna are Sword-Singers who will train the player if they so choose to learn.

The Blades on the other hand have been using a local pirate guild as their proxies ensuring any plundering of Aldmeri assets can't be traced back to them.

While the old iron is still hot I think the Rourken WMD should be powered by a very powerful and rare Djinn trapped and enslaved by the Dwemer. The end game choices could be based on making a wish or setting the Djinn free. Either way this choice results in the player "making way" for the Redguard people.

Yes indeed - I'm seeking the 'world ending' scenario for a Hammerfell ES6.

The Rourken and some sort of WMD - WHOA! Now THAT is a super neat idea!

But Hammerfell won't happen, it's totally going to be Black Marsh * nod nod *

I think the Devotees of Satakal, in relation to the Thalmor, could be similar to the Thalmor's relationship with the An-Xileel. The Thalmor manipulated the An-Xileel into rebellion against the Empire. As part of their exit strategy in Hammerfell, their agents could have orchestrated the rise of the Devotees of Satakal, already a faction with potentially a similar ideology to their own and with no love for the Empire and its ways, from a widespread cult, exiled from the cities under the Empire, into a sleeping giant, rallying the nomadic tribes of the Alik'r towards a single goal: the Walkabout. To bring about the time of ending and use it as a stepping-stone to safely reach the Far Shores. However, the Thalmor lost control of their "assets", the leadership of the Devotees of Satakal being manipulated by a strange Dwarven device, similar in function to a lexicon, known as the Guardian's Eye. A portable information repository, the Guardian's Eye could also use information to accurately predict the future, sharing this with the user through visions. This is the source of the Rourkens' knowledge about the Numidium.

The Rourken sought many ways to avoid their race's inevitable fate. Distancing themselves from their brethren in Resdayn, reshaping their culture, their physique, their beliefs, all under the Rourken, which had grown into a cult of personality. Finally, they created a single contingency plan, a trap for Numidium: Volenfell itself. However, a small minority of Dwemer sought to save themselves, traveling to Malacath's Ashpit, which had become their patron Daedric Prince. They established a small colony upon the backbone of the Ashpit, mining precious marrow and traversing the endless sea of smoke and ashes in airships. However, the Guardian's Eye, now in the possession of the Devotees, had become a conduit for the Numidium. The visions granted by the Guardian's Eye, the whispers of Sep, the "Calling", were all Numidium, guiding the Devotees to discovering its clockwork carcass, recovering its power source - the Mantella, and reactivating its repair protocol, so that the Brass-God can once more walk Nirn and usher in its end. Only the HoonDing, the Way-Maker, can steer Nirn off this path to annihilation.

I definitely love pretty much every mock synopsis that you put forth. I really would love to see some transformed Rourken clan members in the ash pits and for the main quest to revolve heavily around this sort of thing, in addition to the cult-like/enigmatic Devotees, and the Numidium. My only dissenting preference is that I think that the Order of Diagna from what you've mentioned seems a bit too... samey, in comparison with the typical kind of heroic faction that we would see in a main quest. Due to the raw power of sword singing (especially when compared to dragon shouts) I feel like there needs to be a lot of emphasis on both the protective and destructive elements of sword singing, and perhaps the consequences that can result from "misusing" one's abilities on the more destructive side of the spectrum.

Interesting. I intended the Order of Diagna to be a more morally grey faction, an order of warrior monks, religiously following the Shehai Shen She Ru and essentially ruling Ska'vyn with little to no opposition. The Order has been described as archaic and thuggish, a cult of the hoary god Diagna and by proxy, the HoonDing. In addition to that, from the very start, it could be evident there is corruption in the ranks of the Order of Diagna, some members valuing the more brutal "the best techniques are passed on by the survivors" mentality, while others are more benevolent and pacifist, conjuring the spirit sword only when there is no other way.

This is also where the Memory Stones would come into play. Artifacts that can bestow knowledge and understanding, but also memories, which, through improper use, could result in something similar to possession. That is where the power of the Devotees comes into play. The idea is that after the retaking of Ska'vyn, the Thalmor fled across the Alik'r, taking heavy losses due to raids by the Alik'r nomads. A minority of the Order, led by a master Ansei, deserted the Order and pursued the Thalmor. They became heroes to the Alik'r nomads and were integrated into the Devotees, sharing their knowledge of the sword-singing arts with the Alik'r.

Two decades later, the Devotees, seemingly led by sword-singers, are launching raids on the Alik'r border states. The player character, brings a Memory Stone to the Order and joins after participating in the Proving of Diagna, in which they participate in a mock siege of Orsinium, facing the onslaught of the Ansei. After joining the Order, they hone their skills, and eventually discover the true nature of the Devotees. Learning of their goals, they travel to the Ashpit to recover Volendrung, where they are told of the Rourken's contingency plan. Volenfell would not just be a great crater city, but a trap for Numidium, one that could contain and even control it.

Volendrung would be the key to accessing Volenfell. But soon after their return to Ska'vyn, they are faced with betrayal. Hastur, the master Ansei that deserted the Order all those years ago, reveals himself as one of the current leaders of the Order, and a Hollow-Faced Man. Hastur leads his army of sword-singers right into Ska'vyn, under the guise of robed warrior monks and decimates the Order. A grate battle ensues as the Devotees of Satakal besiege Ska'vyn, the player character rallying the Order to hold the city until reinforcements, in the form of a friendly faction, such as the Crowns or the Forebears intervene. But Volendrung has been stolen.

The final act would then begin with the player character seeking training in the forbidden techniques from an old blind hermit living in the Dragontail Mountains, in truth, the spirit of Diagna, traveling to Volenfell, rallying the demoralised Alik'r nomads around the legend of the HoonDing, and discovering Numidium. The final quest would be an all out assault on Volenfell, the last holdout of the Devotees, to prevent the reactivation of Numidium, which had been almost fully repaired deep in the bowels of the crater city. And after a great Shehai battle with Hastur, the battle with an imperfect Numidium, the Brass-God being lost to the Alik'r.

I am thinking that since many people complained about the fact that Oblivion and Skyrim were more generic and not as unique and interesting as Morrowind, there is a good chance that Bethesda are working on Argonia right now. Also, since many people complained about the lack of spears in the previous two titles, Argonia would would a very good opportunity to add spears because of the Argonians' affinity to them. I would be very nice to see how Bethesda would implement spear combat. I believe them when they say that it is difficult. I just hope they will not bring back LARP weapons.

You mean like This?

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:MW-item-Volendrung.jpg

Or this?

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:TR-weapon-BiPolar_Blade.jpg

Or maybe These?

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:MW-item-War_Axes.jpg

TES has always had... not exactly historically accurate weapons. At least as long as it's polygon count has allowed them.

but but, that be morrowindz, it can't do wrongz! (but yes, Morrowind had far more "LARP weapons", the games have never really had realistic ones)




on a different note though, I wonder how much of a time jump will be between titles.. if the next game is set in Hammerfell, we get a major issue if the time jump is even somewhat short, with a geographical location so close to Skyrim, it would only make sense to hear quite a bit about its current events and political situation (your going to hear alot more about a nation that borders yours than one across the continent), which would make it more likely they would have to give a canon victory to the Civil War (because its not very believable that an entire province would not know the outcome of a major political uprising that happened only a few kilometers away), which will end up pissing off half the fanbase either way..


this is why I am not fully sure Hammerfell will be next

If Bethesda knows what's good for them, they wont go with Hammerfell simple due to scenery and bland desert environment. Yes, deserts are full of life and animals, and contain all sorts of ruins and what not, but it's not like you can have those every 50 metres, which means we'd get to stare a lot at nothing but bare yellow sand for hours and hours, and anybody who played Gothic 3 knows what I'm talking about. Even considering Hammerfell has mountains and what not, most of the landscape would still be nothing but bare wasteland and very obnoxious to the eye, especially since we already have Fallout series for that.

If they absolutely must go with humanoid land for now, High Rock would be a better location due to it's mediaeval setting, tho probably a bit boring as well. I'd would personally want to see either Valenwood, due to lush green jungles and moving trees ( how cool is that ? ) or Black Marsh due to how atmospheric swamps can be. I mean, just take a look at many different swamp types in fantasy. https://www.google.hr/search?q=dark+fantasy+swamps&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBrq_MvPTJAhWCORoKHQYhBWQQ_AUIBygB&biw=1366&bih=670

They could go either dark fantasy/horror style and mix it up with a bit of high fantasy, like having perpetually black marshlands at night that are lit only by glowing mushrooms and exotic wildplants, kinda like Blackreach, with a chir of insects or howls of wild beasts adding to atmosphere.

Most renditions of Hammerfell maps are extremely diverse, consisting of tropical areas, deserts, Savannahs and even a volcanic peninsula. It's probably the most diverse province left.

There you go, deserts, savannahs and at best maybe few grasslands/woods around coastal regions. Still makes for a very bland environment considering Alik'r desert is going to be a massive part of it. No thanks.

You'd only be looking at one wasteland. The Alik'r, which takes up, at most, a third of the province. Considerably less, depending on the map you look at. That's less than the Ashlands in Morrowind took up. Beyond that, you have the greatest variety of terrain left in Tamriel (Morrowind is really the only province that would compete in terms of biomes).


Thats not to say that I don't think there are some major opportunities with both Valenwood and Blackmarsh, but look at Bethesda's execution of swamps so far. The Bitter Coast, the Blackwood, even the swampland between Rotten and Windhelm. And then the depiction in ESO. It's all the same, generic, bland swamp. And Valenwood is just 'jungle', being probably the most visually boring province in ESO.


There's little to no diversity in how those environments have been described or handled in the past, and without a major redirect in terms of art, they are far more likely to be bland, repetitive landscapes than Hammerfell is.

https://www.google.se/search?q=dark+fantasy+deserts&safe=off&biw=1920&bih=963&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjeqaXerfXJAhXGiywKHUUDBegQ_AUIBigB

Actually, one of my favorite fantasy deserts was from Rise of Legends, with the valley of Swahu, the fallen Djiin... Massive shards of blue glass protruding from the sands,.infecting the rocks and local wildlife. It was still a sandy desert but it was full of colour and diverse fantasy.


There's just as much to be done with deserts as any other biome. And that's not factoring in the diverse biomes of Hammerfell.

Deserts, oases, savanahs, mountains to the northeast, coasts to the southwest and probably what I'm most hyped about are the Carribean like island chain. You people are crazy if you think Hammerfell is nothing but desert. It's Brazil, Saudi Arabia, and Puerto Rico all rolled into one with TES weirdness mixed in.