I think all modders would like is to be able to upload without getting abuse and downloaders want to know what they are downloading. This can be achieved and I think the Nexus new system had the potential to do that in that it forces the user to rate in a particular way. It puts the words there for the user. However the words that are used are very bad and that is why it doesn't work. A simple changing of the wording would make a huge difference and this is what I talked about the last time this issue can up. For instance...

[I won't endorse this file] sounds much politer and softer as [I cannot endorse this file]

Some areas should be completely removed such as the conflicts, couldn't get the file to work, the personal taste/standards rubbish and replaced with something that is actually useful to downloaders and modders.

But ultimately negative endorsemants shouldn't be an option. They help no one and just create conflict and competition in a hobby that is supposed to be about fun.

And yes compatibility would be better served not as a means of rating but rather just as info for the downloader.

Anyway, like I said earlier all we can do is let our thoughts be known directly to the owner (who is currently asking for suggestions for the site) and move onto the other good sites out there leaving Nexus to those who are happy with the current rating system. For instance, TESA which is a very well organised and run site.

No, they haven't. A few weeks ago, I released a light armor mod. Two individuals (who did not follow the installation intructions correctly) not only gave it a "Thumbs Down", they also heeped a large amount of bile into the comments section. One of them even emailed me a virus. I lost two weeks worth of work on http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1055275&hl= because of that. If I wasn't a firm believer in backups, I would have lost it all. I've since removed the armor mod and I refuse to put it up again. That kind of behavior will only hurt the modding community. Anyone remember AlienSloff removing all of her mods because of crap like this? Even though most of them are available again, none of them have comments or endorements available. The current rating system on Nexus leaves a whole lot to be desired. In fact, until they improve it dramatically, I will be uploading all of my future mods exclusively to http://www.tesalliance.org/ I will leave my current releases on Nexus for now, but I will not be uploading anything new there anytime soon.

Honestly, that's a level of stupidity and maliciousness that's hard to blame on a comments or endorsemants system.

That's nearly psychopath level of anger for no reason.

I don't know how you can avoid stuff like that without withdrawing nearly all contact, or privatizing your mods to a site you control.

I for one can fully understand the misuse and abuse by some individuals and as upset as a modder can be, which I've experienced. I recommend with a hard swallow and try out the following advice of which I recieved. It's not easy, the system isn't perfect but TESNexus IMO does an excellent job in trying to achieve the best way to run the site.


grammar ^ ^

All of LHammond's advice would be moot if they'd just remove the negative endorsemants. I find it rather ironic that if you fill a comment with bile, you can still get the person banned, but if the same person basically picks one of the sanctioned "this mod svcks" options they're completely safe.

To be honest I don't think people should have to just 'svck it in and deal'.



Yes there is always the occassional brat for sure and we all can deal with that. However unfiortunately TesNexus' current ratings system makes it easier for abuse period.



You have to reupload to mod to do that? Why should the modder who has already put in hard work and opted to share that hard work with others, be forced to do more.



But why take that route when there are other sites that offer a fairer rating system. I know personally a LOT of modders who are actually not using Tes Nexus anymore because of the rating system. Unlike me they don't go all vocal about it and express their concerns, they up and leave quietly. Good, quality modders. It is all very well to think that when one modder leaves more will replace, but that simply isn't the case. Modders are few and far between these days because this game is so old. My whole stance on this is 'don't bite the hand that feeds you'. Make it uncomfortable for modders and you will not have mods, period. No mods, no files to download or rate. Sorry, but for myself modders are of the utmost value, their hard work and generosity enhances my game and I don't take that forgranted, ever.



It has been a long time since this was implemented, I don't think that option is coming and removing the negative endorsemants altogether would sort that out anyway.



Will they? When I bend over backwards to cater to them? That rater is long gone I can't even get in touch with them and find out what the actual problem was anyway. Should I try and pm them to find out why? Obviously generously sharing my hours/days/months/years of hard work is not enough. Now I need to cater to every whining user that cannot read the readme or thinks that I psychically should have known exactly what they wanted me to mod and what their taste is. After all I do serve them or maybe not.....maybe I am actually doing this for fun and being part of a community.

I don't mean to go on and on about this but I really think it is a valid issue and fully understand why the OP is upset, and the more people that tell the site owner this system is open for abuse and not working, the more inclined he may feel to change it. In the meantime, Nexus is a great site and it's staff work very hard, but for my part I think I will refrain from uploading there until a much fairer rating system is introduced. Which is a shame really as it would have been fun to finally put my files on all the other sites for more people to enjoy.

If I may suggest - while it's all well and good to vent about it here, and I fully acknowledge it does good to do so, perhaps take the opportunity and chime in http://www.tesnexus.com/news/index.php?id=735 while there's the chance someone might be listening. The more folks who are upset by this who speak up and say something, the more likely it is something could be done about it.

I have to disagree with this overall reasoning - I submitted my biggest mod to PES and TESN roughly three years ago. Most comments on both tend to mention the bugs rather than the good stuff the mod does. I haven't ever really been accosted by rating trolls - there are two downranks on TESN and 174 endorsemants. My mod didn't succeed because I worried about my ratings - it succeeded because I have put three years of my life into its development and listened to the mod users and corrected bugs. And the success of my mod would seem to support the assertion that hard work can pay off.

:lmao: For impressive mods like yours Reneer yes. It works. :bowdown: For the less impressive/not so game altering mods like mine and many others, well endorsemants are the only way to get on a list. LOL Not that I particularly care about that. I primarily build houses. :shrug: I'm content seeing my work turn up in the occasional screenshot.

Been there, complained about that, was ignored. The old rating system was much better than the new one (the old one was flawed, but at least with regards to blatent misuse you could report negative ratings - now you cannot report negative ratings).

Really I think the success of my mod has a lot to do with the fact that, until recently, it was the only mod that really tried to modify how the crime system worked in Oblivion. Though there were a whole lot of issues early on (many that I'd care to forget) the fact that the mod had literally no "competition" certainly didn't hurt its success any - just about every other mod has a cousin of some sort, or has to deal with serious compatability issues like cell placement that none of my mods really have to deal with. I guess in that way I'm really lucky.

In regards to the whole TESN rating system... I dislike it as much as the next modder, but I'm not about to quit TESN because of it.

@Reneer, your mod is indeed super awesome. It may be true that your mod is higher quality than many others, that you didn't have to care about negative ratings, etc. But let us not derail from the topic, we are not discussing your mod. It does not justify the existing rating system. For example, my mod, which i had been working on for a year and a half on, has 15 thumbs up, and 2 thumbs down. I don't expect people to like it, but i do expect not to bash it. Two people simply decided to throw a meaty turd on my work, so that it seems to everyone my mod is poor quality. They did not let me know what is wrong with it. Do i know how to improve it simply because of a thumb down? I don't.

I like the idea of completely removing the negative endorsemants, although i also suggest it wouldn't be bad to keep them - as long as the user would be obligated to provide exact and valid reasons, why he/she chose to rate the mod that way. In that scenario, the users would be happy, because they would know what exactly is wrong with the mod. The modders would be happy also, because they would know why exactly they received the negative rating, and they could improve their mod = rating system win.

I could simply walk away, and the community would lose another modder. I wouldn't be the first one. The reason i am complaining is because it would also be me (and everyone else) who would lose a mod when some other modder decides to simply walk away. A successful mod or not - doesn't that concern you?

They should change the rating system to thumbs UP ONLY .. just like the image rating system ...

The thing that i don't like about the current rating system ... it's the hit and run feeling ...

TES Nexus has cycled through several different rating systems. But what it comes down to is that ratings systems generally just don't work well. I do think that this system is helping to reduce the amount of trolling/flaming on the file comments, which was really getting out of control in the past.

Currently the system works backwards. I suggested reversing it when the new system first came into use.
Instead of positive endorsemants requiring a comment, they should not require one, there's no point in commenting, since the positive endorsemant is the comment.
If negative endorsemants are kept, instead of not requiring a comment so that the neg-endorser can just pick from a pre-generated list of meaningless, ofen insulting generic comments, they should have to type something meaningful to validate their neg-endorsemant (I should point out that Nexus staff don't like the negative endorsemants to be referred to as "negative", they prefer " non-endorsemants" instead) - and if their comment is unjustified, then there is something to report and get deleted. Banning the neg-endorser is not necessary (unless they do a lot of neg-endorsemants and always leave pointless comments).

I find it surprising that they could see it as such, the very fact that it is a 'thumbs down' image and that it is in red are too globally known negatives. Thumbs down of course is a response in the negative and shows disapproval, in show business often accompanied with booing, and red means danger/stop/alert and is always used for such.

Meanwhile the 'Thumbs up' number is in green. Thumbs up of course signal approval and green is used for go/good etc.

Surely this is very plain.

If they want a non endorsemant then remove the negative endorsemant. The sheer fact that the person didn't endorse is a 'non endorsemant'.

I thought about this a bit last night and I think I've conceptualized a good system for both players and modders. It would require participation from the community and some extensive programming, though.

1. Users have to be logged in to download any file, period, no exceptions.

2. Users can only endorse a file if 24 hours have passed since they downloaded it. This is necessary to give them time to install, test and confirm their opinions. This also ensures that mods will only get endorsemants if players make an active decision to go back and endorse them.

2a. To encourage endorsemants, any mod that is endorsed by a user will be added to a list tied to their account. That list can be further filtered by the user to represent their installed mods. This would have two benefits: a backup list in case of computer crash, and it would be configured to indicate files that have been updated since you last downloaded them, and extra files that have been added to mod listings since you last downloaded that mod.

2b. A new type of filter would be implemented comparing percentage of endorsemant to downloads (only counting from when the new system begins).

3. No negative-endorsemants. Not endorsing is a non-endorsemant. A thumbs down is a negative-endorsemant. Instead of leaving a negative-endorsemant, the user will be invited to leave a detailed complaint or criticism in the comments/forum thread.

4. When leaving a comment in the forum thread/comments section there will be a very big, very prominent checkbox labeled "This message is a complaint/criticism". All messages posted with the box checked will not be posted immediately, but instead reviewed by volunteer mini-moderators to ensure it meets certain standards. ie, the message is actually about the mod and in some way constructive, not just ranting or trolling.

5. The modder will have limited moderator abilities over threads about his/her own mods. They will be able to delete any message that is not marked as a complaint/criticism, and they will be able to temporarily ban users entirely. Any messages they delete will still be visible to full moderators, and any bans they institute will be reviewed by full moderators. Both modders and users will be able to appeal things to the full moderators.

6. Volunteer mini-moderators will not be able to use their review/approve function on their own threads obviously if they are also modders.

How does that sound? Any huge problems? Additions?

Think this could be in any way implemented at any of the sites.

Certainly sounds more reasonable. But rather than require moderators (mini- or full) to vet these complaints, they should just be similar to PMs - sent straight to the modder instead of posted publicly. If the modder wishes for the complaint or criticism to be made public, then it gets added, along with a response, into the comments thread or a designated Discussion thread.

One apparent reason for the ratings system being changed was to reduce moderator workload, so offering an alternative which puts work back onto the moderators (new or existing) will not be viewed as favourably as offering an alternative which requires no extra work for moderators.

From Bben46, a moderator at Tesnexus

Begin rant: :swear:
Where were you guys a year ago when DarkOne asked for help in formulating a new rating system? Did you think he came home from school one night and decided to change it? He spent 6 months working on it and made many revisions before releasing it. There was a running topic on TesNexus on the proposed changes. He read every post and replied to many. Most of your ideas were discussed and some were implemented. And the reasoning behind not using them was clearly laid out. As to the negative ratings, He was going to leave them off, but too many people screamed that it wouldn't be fair. What about those really bad mods that deserve a bad rating? The thumbs down was a compromise solution. BTW they do NOT count for inclusion in any of the lists. ONLY thumbs up count. Yes, it is a popularity contest - as is every rating system. Because that is what people said they want! :rolleyes:

The new rating system actually requires you to download the mod, the old one didn't. The new one requires a 3 hour wait before rating to actually allow time to try it. Many ratings -both low and high on the old one were made without even actually looking at the mod - if it had nekked women, it got a lot of 10s for no other reason. If it required thought, it got more than a few 1s because "I can't make it work so it is a dumb mod". As to requiring comments - I saw "I give it a 10, LOL". and the next comment on the same mod, "I give it a 1, LOL". As a moderator I wanted to remove both comments (NOT ban the commenter) but we always favored the mod maker.(They are the reason for the site) So the 1 would be removed and the 10 would stand, although as far as being 'helpful' to the maker, both were useless. But that 10 not being offset by the 1 sure helped in the ratings!

It's not perfect, and can still be improved on. But DarkOne does not make changes on the spur of the moment. Please post your suggestions and complaints on TesNexus where we can see and evaluate them.

BTW, we don't ban for just low ratings, and never did. Some may have been banned for consistently giving low ratings with no or really bad reasons after being warned. They were more likely banned for something they said in their comment (which was removed when they were banned). Some people seem to confuse removing a comment with banning. Unlike some other sites we actually post every banning, along with the reason they were banned and a link to the actual post (if its possible, don't expect to see a link to a porm site or a spam advertisemant in a ban post.)
End Rant: B)

I would like to thank gamesas :tops: for the loan of their soapbox.
Bben46

I've just bumped by http://thenexusforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=124689&view=findpost&p=1411772 . . . quite illustrative!

[EDIT] (Wow . . what a coincidence !!!)

Offering suggestions and criticism which was ignored. You'll find some threads on the subject right here on Beth from when Dark0ne was discussing the subject during and after implementation of the new rating system.

Let the modder choose what comments are necessary by letting them sort the posts. in addition you could let the player choose which category they want to post in.(except the trolling category)
this would solve quite a bit. moderators would have the ability obviously to correct any misusage by the author.


positive endorsemant
constructive feedback
general thanks

negative feedback
constructive feedback
trolling (this would not have a post counter)

pending delete ( this is where the author can move certain posts that he wants deleted) once approved by the moderators it gets deleted.

I don't think I'd like this. Some complaints are very important because they can be about major conflicts and even damage to your savegames. And let's be honest, some modders can be just as big a jerk as some players.


Flat on my back waiting to go into surgery.

I never mean any insult to DarkOne and his work, and I'd note that he again recently asked for suggestions for the site.

I also never researched the current system before making my little suggestion post. It's just things that occurred to me.

I'm still not sure about the negative endorsemants, but clearly you had lot of users demanding them. The problem with them is that some of the comments are utterly useless to anyone, and the others are too short to have any useful information.

Now, now. Calm down, this is not and never has been a bashing session so there is absolutely no need to start swearing, even if just in smiley form. This is a discussion of whether or not the system works and what can be done about it if anything and it is also where we are ascertaining how many people believe there is a problem.

Where were we a year ago when DarkOne was asking for suggestions? As stated over and over again, we were there giving them. I myself gave long carefully thought out suggestions on the rating system on Tes Nexus on the thread that DarkOne opened on this forum.



It has been stated here over and over that that course of action has been followed and even a reply posted by a member of Tes Nexus staff to the complaints, has been posted here.


I best not get started on the violation of peoples privacy and posting publicly that they are banned and why, otherwise I would be up on a soapbox myself.

Now DarkOne is perfectly within his rights to not implement the suggestions offered by others of course. But suggestions and complaints have been offered, I have expressed my concerns over and over and here we see the result of it as my concerns and other peoples, are proved at least to some extent, correct. I don't doubt that it is difficult to find a good system that works, something that is found through trial and error. Right now we are ascertaining that this trial is not working.

Well they could just remain as normal comments then rather than labelling and separating them, and requiring moderators to read them.