I don't want to compare it to Morrowind. That horse has been beaten once too often.
But I was going to post a different thread and I wanted to rephrase and retitle it into this.

Like, for instance, how much is chosen to be left up to modders? I mean, is it ridiculous to go up to the development team with ideas that they probably wouldn't have worked on otherwise? Or maybe Bethesda would be more understanding than other development companies.
Let's put it like this. I was thinking of asking about whether it was time or not to think up some revolutionary ideas that may not coincide. Things I might feel guilty for mentioning. Like for instance, I wouldn't mind going up to Bethesda and having them implement things that might not be absolutely the most dynamic part of the game, but when bunched up enough might contribute to the overall depth perception that the player has when going through the game and thinking about the world.

I mean it's one thing to just start up a new RPG and play another typical hero campaign. And maybe things like using a toilet would be tedious to play and develop, but Morrowind has some small mods that I think would be great if pushed a bit together into the official development scene. Mods like Balmora Clothier for Morrowind come to mind, as I feel it would be nice to have actual jobs considering a single player rp game like these we play do not suffer from age and deprivation that many multiplayer games do, so being able to build houses and/or open up shops would be cool.
I guess you might call it "TES Sims". Mods like the Archeology Guild are already setup for development well enough. Mages could be encouraged to open up mage type shops such as tailoring and eventually opening your own shop as the game progresses. Things you would do in real life.

I mean ... nobody looks at life like, "Eat, Sleep, Poop", so why should a good RPG suffer from being labeled like that? I think if we package enough of those little things into development at least enough where a template system could be used by other modders to expand it later on into something more universal, free form and encompassing the world and it's history and development. Feeling like you are part of the world could go a long way towards getting your game seen by the gamer sheep as something beyond more than just another story.

I dunno, I'm just saying that I've always felt like modern RPGs like Oblivion have always been close but all lacking that quality depth that really makes you forget that it's just a game. When I install all my favorite mods for Morrowind, it's simple because they're just mods, and the mods that stand out are generally the only ones of their type (such as Balmora Clothier, there are more but I'm not looking at a list right now, so that's why I'm not naming out a bunch of mods, and this opening post is already long enough as it is) but when I play it all up on a character from start to end, it feels all encompassing. To do more than just grind up your skills, save up your loot and "Slay The Dragon".

I'm not saying that Morrowind or oblivion fall into that category currently... not giving negative criticism. I just feel like if there was 1 company that could do it, it would probably be Bethesda. Hopefully with TES V or VI.


What say you? I'm just bored and looking for something cool to talk about.

"Each event is preceded by prophecy, but without the hero, there is no event"- Zurin Arctus, the Underking. Playing an Elder Scrolls game is about playing a hero in a prophecy of a major, world changing event in the land of Tamriel. gamesas should not deviate from this in order to give us toilets and clothing shop quest lines. Leave the Sims stuff to the modders, and let Bethesda focus on the game.

This game is nearly perfect. I would like the NPCs to have more dialogue and Id like a more traditional leveling system. However those are very very nitpicky complaints for a game Id rate a 10/10

I play on the 360 so no mods for me. however the one thing i would have preferred to be implemented right from the start is real hunger/thirst/tired etc. so 9.5/10

edit: this will probably get moved to community or locked

Probably. I should know better than to ask the mainstream a serious question anyway.

The only thing that's NOT deep is character's faces!

So we're not sufficiently advanced to answer your question, is that it?

I already have a game that takes "The Sims " and implements it into there game its called Fable II and it was developed by Lionheadstudios (Petermolyneux maybe you heard of him) and that game is fun but the sims bit is a bit boring and very annoying at times especially at the jobs getting the same comment over and over and over)

LOL ^^ Good 'un

OP - Not sure exactly what you meant by that comment. But it wasn't endearing to get conversation going. Personally, once I saw that I figured "What's the point." ... So that's kind of my comment. I will say only this. Your definition of depth and mine are vastly different.

This doesn't seem to be a fair statement. Because what other RPG is like Oblivion? I can only think of Morrowind or Fallout 3. The games are unique. Two Worlds is the closest non Bethesda game but it falls way below in quality.

Other modern RPGs can be excellent but not like Oblivion in that they are linear. Like Dragon's Age, Mass Effect II, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Witcher, etc.

So if it wasn't for Oblivion we would lose one of the very few "Sandbox" games.

If the question is can Oblivion be improved then I think the answer is yes. But that seems a subject for the mods forum, or for the TES: V recommendations thread in TES General.

Oblivion... Whats to say? There are many flaws...

The NPCs:
You meet *** ****** (an ugly female Dunmer) at ******** (a town with 2 houses... one of them is for the sheep) and you can ask him about rumours... Just rumours. Nothing else. What does he answers? Mudcrabs.

The way to fight:
Lalalalala, we are going to Chorrol, llalalallalaal, OH NOEZ! A lone ordinary bandit in full glass armour and with a daedric warhammer!
Dodges warhammer power strike.
Hits twice while the bandit is still trying to get back.
Blocks normal warhammer strike.
Hit, hit.
Block.
Hit, hit.
Block
Hit, hit
Block button doesnt work, gets hit.
Block
Hit, hit
Dead bandit.

Not very interesting...

The Quests:
Find *****, alone.
Kill ******, alone.
Save ******, alone.

And different combinations of these... The quests are not very interesting according to me. Some are ofcourse more interesting because there is a story behind the quest which may interest you. And why do you have to do EVERYTHING by yourself???
There exists like a few times when this doesnt apply.

The Graphics:
I guess they are good. I have no problem with them atleast.

The Lore:
Nemas Problemas here.



The score:
I think that if Oblivion had been released as the first in its series then it would gain a 6/10 from me... But because there have been the Morrowind, Daggerfall and Arena before it I will give Oblivion a 7/10.
There are better games. But better series? Not many.

For me, depth is not including all of the mundane things that one does throught the day. These have generally been omitted throughout all of RPG's history (70's on, unless you had a DM who was messin' with you )

Depth to me means mental challenge, of which Oblivion lacks greatly. I liked it when I caught on that something was up with the dead drops, and the ultimate heist provided some material for thinking as well (planning).

Regarding combat, meh, I tend to avoid the physcial combat and use ranged (more intersting due to cover and concealment, plus why put myself in harm's way? ) If I do go physical, it's still click as fast as I can, just like it was in MW for me. Now, if I could set mechanical ambushes, and work more ideas like that into combat, it'd be more fun, and have greater depth.

For me depth = brain food, not making something mroe real; leave that to the modding.

I've been passive about this entire thread, but that draws the line right there.
You guys are too much. Sandbox? SANDBOX??????????
Please explain to me how exactly Oblivion is in any way Sandbox? Do you mean because you can join 5 different guilds, that it is "Sandbox" just because you can walk around a lot?

All however many of you just got done pissing on every single Sandbox idea I threw out there, and half of you ignored everything I said and started writing up your own reply that actually belongs in it's own thread and has little to nothing to do with what anyone here is talking about.

But I disgress. If I was going to respond, I would have done it previously. When I read the first 2 replies, my hopes for this thread went down the tubes. I think you should actually play some sandbox games before you go around calling the games you play "sandbox". If I showed you some real "Sandbox" games you might go to gamespot and write up some ranting review about the game for girls that lets you play dressup and house.


So ... since nobody here is actually staying on topic, and nobody seems to be on the same page here, nor does anyone seem to know what the heck "sandbox" is... why don't we just call it a day?

See I was actually tossing around ideas to make the "series" better.

Huh... I always thought of Oblivion as a sandbox game, but maybe because of the definition I have for sandbox games. To me a sandbox game is a game that has no true end, you can go anywhere at anytime and do what you want, your not funneled in to do some main story/quest, you can choose which quests you go on, and there is more but I'll stop because apparently my definition is wrong. But since I'm wrong Talus, can you give me your definition of a sandbox game? I'd truly like to know what game is a true sandbox game.


If you could restrain from insulting that'd be nice too.

Thanks, mate!
Feel better now?
Perhaps a rephrasing of your concepts or message is needed?
I though I was on topic :shrug:

Do you think that replying or redirecting posts earlier in your own thread (taking care of it in stead of abondoning it) to make it more of
what wanted would have saved you some frustration?

Frankly, I got lost in it and had to reread several times. Even with that, what I BELIEVE you are suggesting is adding more realism, which for many is different than dpeth. Your idea about having programmers spend time on this in order to make it easier for modders, for me, takes time away from adding the more intellectual depth.

Take a breath.

closed by request of OP