TES Vs. Wow : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:55 am

Is it me.... or is 95% of all Warcraftian names just amalgamations of already existant english words?

I think as golden rule of any fantasy hoping to lay claim to some shread of originality; is that everything has to have more than 1 name.

Warcraft really, so much as I have have encountered, simply has names like....

Bloodsun, Bloodclaw, Bloodjaw, Bloodmoon (Eeek!).

Icemoon, Iceclaw, Iceclaw, Icejaw.

Stormsun, Stormclaw, Stormjaw, Stormmoon.

Wrathsun, Wrathclaw, Wrathjaw, Wrathmoon.

Nightsun, Nightclaw, Nightclaw, Nightjaw, Nightmoon.

Firesun, Fireclaw, Firejaw, Firemoon.

Ughh. GENERIC NAMING.

It's one of the reasons why I find Skyrim an exceptionally boring province, and Morrowind the most interesting.

» Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:47 pm

It's one of the reasons why I find Skyrim an exceptionally boring province, and Morrowind the most interesting.

Count Goldwine? Azra Nightwielder?

But, I don't hear many Warcraft names taking Home-Wrecker as part of a name.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:08 am

They both have a good deal of lore, but the Warcraft games just didn't lend themselves to exploring it much, most of those games background is found in the manuals and books. Warcraft actually does have a lot of lore, but the nature of the games means lore gets sacrificed for gameplay. Not really a huge sin, despite what many people think

TES lore tends to be a little less straightforward, but I wouldn't say theres that much of a difference between quantity of it in the two game worlds.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:05 am

Oh, Warcraft used to be great and quite well thought out. Not as deep as TES, but it was quite good. Then Blizzard made WoW. It [censored] lore, flushed it down the drain, and waited in the sewers so it could [censored] it again. WoW is 95% 'OMG?! People pay for this! MONEY!!!', 4% addiction, 0.5 actual fun and 0.5% Lore. I'm pretty disappointed in Blizzard. They are just using whatever is cool with no regard for their own lore and they are slowly killing all their main characters. The best characters actually. In the BC it was Illidan, soon it will be the Lich King, what's next? Doing a raid with 750 Level 160 characters on Heaven? WoW is just powergaming incarnate. Well, the PvP and PvE servers are. Dunno about the Roleplaying Server, but i don't think it will be different.

I just had a flashback to the future where this applies to TES Online. :facepalm:

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:29 am

Count Goldwine? Azra Nightwielder?

But, I don't hear many Warcraft names taking Home-Wrecker as part of a name.

because Nords never add descriptions of character to their names... :facepalm:

I used to like Warcraft and was looking forward to new lore, but WoW ruined that for me.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:47 am

because Nords never add descriptions of character to their names... :facepalm:

I used to like Warcraft and was looking forward to new lore, but WoW ruined that for me.

That's more of a viking thing then the writers being dreadful at finding names.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:48 am

Yeah. And Warcraft's dragons are like every dragon out there.

Not quite; in D&D, Red Dragons are as evil as can be. In Warcraft, they're as noble as can be. To name one difference off the top of my head.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:20 am

That's more of a viking thing then the writers being dreadful at finding names.

I'm not sure what you're implying...Not sure if you got that the underline was meant to be sarcastic.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:55 am

Count Goldwine? Azra Nightwielder?

But, I don't hear many Warcraft names taking Home-Wrecker as part of a name.

Do we take Oblivion seriously? Or Travels?

If and when TES does feature a descriptive name, it's usually in good taste and appropriation. M'Aiq the Liar, Snowy Granius, Miles Gloriosus, Haema Farseer, Battlespire.

Azra Nightwielder is an absolutely dreadful name, but pales in comparison to the torrent of dreadful names featured in whatever Blizzard conjurs up.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:16 pm

Do we take Oblivion seriously? Or Travels?

If and when TES does feature a descriptive name, it's usually in good taste and appropriation. M'Aiq the Liar, Snowy Granius, Miles Gloriosus, Haema Farseer, Battlespire.

Azra Nightwielder is an absolutely dreadful name, but pales in comparison to the torrent of dreadful names featured in whatever Blizzard conjurs up.

You can take it whatever you want. But, TES is still guilty of using horrible names, though the frequency is much much lower.

[censored], I finally remember. Admiral Proudmoore, the guy who lead the fleets.

» Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:35 pm

Count Goldwine? Azra Nightwielder?

But, I don't hear many Warcraft names taking Home-Wrecker as part of a name.

She was a home wrecker. She made that part of her name, as many Nords do, because that is what she did.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:03 am

She was a home wrecker. She made that part of her name, as many Nords do, because that is what she did.

I know. Signy's family name isn't Home-Wrecker. I don't even know why I mentioned her .

» Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:25 pm

I don't think so. There's just more of it. Forgotten Realms is filled with filler. Pages upon pages of fluff involving a monsters from a bloated bestiary and familiar nations and characters involved in various cataclysms, tragedies and epic disasters suitable for RPG campaigns. The role of the Forgotten Realms is to provide a setting for storytelling, and over the years, it's tried to do that as comprehensively as possible. The Forgotten Realms timeline is http://www.o-love.net/realms/fr_time_notable.html, but filled with utterly bland trivia. It's composed of a mixture of campaigns to kill the evil wizard becoming historical events (random example "Nessmara, a lamia noble skilled in the Art who dwells amidst the ruined city of Illimar in the Gulthmere Woods, recovers the broken fragments of the Maguscepter. Once reassembled, the sentient scepter twists its mistress's desires towards its own ends: ruling the city of Westgate." and boggling minutiae like "Establishment of the first elvish settlements of Shantel Othreier" - really just historical scribble intended to give people that would normally be called "an encounter" some sort of reason for being in the general area or acting in a totally chaotically neutral way or whatever.

Similarly, reading the in-game books from http://www.sorcerers.net/Worlds/FR/index.php is almost impossible, because they're intolerably bland. Even moreso than real historical books. Really, have a look at that link and compare them to some of TIL's books. I dare you. I dare anyone to read those books without falling asleep.

But the main emphasis of the Forgotten Realms is, like D&D itself as a set of rules, a mechanism to facilitate storytelling. I've never met someone interested in the lore of the Forgotten Realms, but certainly many people taken in by the storytelling. Encounters, characters, conflicts and resolutions. What RPs are about. Hence, R. A. Salvatore. Though I'd dispute the claim that he's an "excellent author", but that's for another time.

I wont argue with you about R.A Salvatore being an excellent author- that is merely my opinion, an opinion that lucky for me a LOT of people share- I enjoy his insightful reflections into the minds of his characters (especially Drizzt Do Urden).

However now I must venture to battle with you yet again- I realize from the view of an outsider that Forgotten realms may seem cut and dry- and while I have read the ingame books in Baldur's Gate and can agree that they are dry I still found merit in them- One thing that Forgotten realms does a much better job of is not botching existing lore to an extreme degree- The Forgotten Realms my character trod through in Baldur's Gate 2 (Debatably the best game of all time- only opposed by the almighty Morrowind) is the same Forgotten relams that I read about in R.A Salvatore's Books. The Cyrodiil I read about in the first PGE was not the same Cyrodiil my Oblivion character tread through- As much as you lore masters may hate to admit it Oblivion's lore is still canon- although it messed with the existing lore in many many bad ways. The definition of lore is ultimately tricky to define- what may seem boring to you is still lore to others- I do take issue with anyone that calls forgotten realms generic (please by all means point out something generic about it- I would be glad to shoot your assumption down, really I would) I would gladly argue against any that call TES generic if that were at issue (and believe me I have seen more then my share of idiots that think so).

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:32 am

however i did not read everything from this topic ('cuse my lameness tonight), i must disagree with you friend but ... WarCraft has Lore yes it is not so much as in The Elder Scrolls, but it has Lore, trough they included more SciFi - Mumbo Jumbo, but in my humble oppionion it is not that bad as some people seem to talk and think about, it has some real nice features, and do not forgot orcs in the first TES games where also Savages who turned into civilized green guys in later games.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:12 am

I don't even know what that means and something tells me I'm fortunate for it.

It means that Warcraft 3 and it's expansion both had excellent stories with a very decent and most interesting background, and that they completely butchered it in WoW.
But to the OP, you should've asked this question in a more neutral place. Although I admit that TES lore goes far deeper than anything in Warcraft, the majority of the people here are fanatic WoW haters, as you can clearly see. I think this might cloud their judgement ^_^

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:53 am

I know. Signy's family name isn't Home-Wrecker. I don't even know why I mentioned her .

In Morrowind, there's a male Nord daedra worshipper named Horstar Home-Wrecker.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:44 am

It means that Warcraft 3 and it's expansion both had excellent stories with a very decent and most interesting background, and that they completely butchered it in WoW.
But to the OP, you should've asked this question in a more neutral place. Although I admit that TES lore goes far deeper than anything in Warcraft, the majority of the people here are fanatic WoW haters, as you can clearly see. I think this might cloud their judgement ^_^

i don't hate world of warcraft. it disappointed me that that's the only blizzard game i actually refused to play, but i don't hate it. even if world of warcraft didn't exist, and it was between wc3 and tes, i'd still choose tes. wc lore doesn't interest me. i don't know why but it just doesn't get my love as much as starcraft and the original diablo.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:56 am

Okaaaaaaaaaaay, Since when has World of Warcraft had lore? Did I miss something?

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:35 am

I love the way Blizzard humanized the orcs in Warcraft lore, and it isn't very elf-centric which is more than enough to make it stand apart from most of the competition. The night elves have this matriarch amazon warrior society with a few male druids, but this isn't properly reflected in World of Warcraft.

In the mid 90's Blizzard were making a point-and-click Warcraft adventure game about Thrall, but they scrapped it and turned it into a novel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gslAG2OEO1c

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:31 am

Of course. It has a story, and a lot more oomph. It's too bad I can't care about Blizzard's backgrounds.

Only one I liked was the little cursed town of Khanduras...and King Leoric.

En Taro Tassadar.

Khanduras was the continent, not the town. The town is Tristram.

Anywho, on to TES lore vs. WC lore: TES's is definately more detailed and deep. WC's is okay, they cover all the neccesities, and have just enough twists to separate them from the category of "Stale Fairyland."

~~I like Diablo's lore better than WC's. There's less of it, but it's more interesting.~~

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:52 am

Khanduras was the continent, not the town. The town is Tristram.

Uhhh...that's what I was referring to. You know, little town belong to Khanduras? But, you're wrong. Khanduras was a kingdom containing Tristram. I don't even recall if the continent had a name. I think it was called Sanctuary or something. It bordered Westmarch and both were collectively called the West, supposedly a cultural anomaly in comparison to the vast magic-oriented East.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:09 am

seventius is a genius,
I agree, Wow needs to know the difference between a storyline and lore,
Lore is legend, things that are there for a reason and are expertly crafted to fit with everything and explains all the unexplainable questions,
anybody can say that the gods created the different races, but when there are actual written books in the game to describe the little things, that is what seperates the men from the boys,
where you feel like it is no longer a role playing game, but a role playing life. By the way im single.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:07 am

Uhhh...that's what I was referring to. You know, little town belong to Khanduras? But, you're wrong. Khanduras was a kingdom containing Tristram. I don't even recall if the continent had a name. I think it was called Sanctuary or something. It bordered Westmarch and both were collectively called the West, supposedly a cultural anomaly in comparison to the vast magic-oriented East.

Okay, http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Sanctuary.jpg Khanduras is the nation, and Sanctuary is the continent. For some reason, I thought Khanduras was the whole continent, and Sanctuary was the whole planet. Well, actually it seems there's only one continent on this planet, so I guess that last part is true.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 2:19 pm

Okay, http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Sanctuary.jpg Khanduras is the nation, and Sanctuary is the continent. For some reason, I thought Khanduras was the whole continent, and Sanctuary was the whole planet. Well, actually it seems there's only one continent on this planet, so I guess that last part is true.

It's pathetic I knew that without even looking in the manual.

But, I'd like to thank the OP for motivating me to look through my boxes of books. I managed to find my Organic Chemistry textbook that'll help me review. Also, I found the Idiot too.

» Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:10 am

It's pathetic I knew that without even looking in the manual.

But, I'd like to thank the OP for motivating me to look through my boxes of books. I managed to find my Organic Chemistry textbook that'll help me review. Also, I found the Idiot too.

You mean the epic play by Homer? Oh wait-- that's the ILLIAD.... my bad.

As for that continent being the ONLY one in WoW---- Unlikely. The "minotaur things" (forget what they called them...) are from another continent.