Thank you Arthmoor. Well at this point I have only looked at .esp's that have Oblivion.esm as their master. I would think that if the new file saved by Tes4Edit is smaller than the old one, it was in any case a worthwhile thing to do the cleanup - I hope... :happy:

Cleanup of VAs Better Gold with No Menu Icon no version number

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=5122

Cleaning issues:

• [Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 9 Removed Records: 0 Elapsed Time: 00:00
  
  Undeleting: [REFR:01000CE6] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of AleswellInn "Aleswell Inn" [CELL:0002F7D6])
  
• [Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 9 Undeleted Records: 1 Elapsed Time: 00:00

OK here it found an Undeleting record... otherwise clean I learn: undeleting makes the new .esp bigger than the old one. :nod:

Kvatch Rebuilt and The Lost Spires needed cleaning. I think they are on the list already, but I'm not sure atm. http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24312 needed cleaning as well.

Cleanup of Enhanced Economy version 5.1

I confirm it is clean.

Cleanup of Hoarfrost Castle, version 1.2.2

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=14714

Found issues:

• [Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 11458 Removed Records: 4 Elapsed Time: 00:00
  
• [Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 11454 Undeleted Records: 730 Elapsed Time: 00:01

That's quite a bit of undeleting records. I did not investigate at this time if any further manual cleaning was required.

Thanks andalaybay! Kvatch Rebuilt I have installed, will run it through cleaner tomorrow. Now getting a bit tired of it I must admit.... :pinch:

Are you using the latest TES4Edit? I haven't tried cleaning with that one yet. The one time I started to run a filter with it, it was going past 13 minutes and 1.1GB. I probably should not have had my whole load order loaded, but I didn't think it was going to be so thorough I guess, ha-ha...

Uhmmm... to be honest I am not sure: I use version 2.5.3... There is a version 3.0.15 EXPERIMENTAL on Tesnexus but I'm always a bit uneasy with experimental because I'm not so much the experimental type (only with computer software that is.... )

Well I can say that the LODGen seems to have benefited greatly from the update. I no longer see pieces of Skingrad's architecture floating in the sky as I approach it, anyway. I'll play around with the new edit mode once I start doing the finishing touches on this new setup.


Happy gaming!
- Tomlong75210

We don't need notes in the BOSS masterlist about which mods need cleaning or are clean.

What we need is a BOSS-like community project (let's name it... CLEAN!!! Someone make an acronym with that.) with an automated cleaning tool. It would be based on a future version of CBash, I guess, unless ElminsterEU adds command-line support to TES4Edit. Then, the most knowledgeable cleaning experts can go through a mod once, identify dirty and wild edits, as well as references that need undeleting. Then they add a mod entry with those records in the CLEAN masterlist, and everyone else can just run CLEAN.exe and bam, their copy of that mod is clean too.

The CLEAN project would neatly solve the problem ElminsterEU mentions, that of everyone doing their own cleaning and ending up with a different version. A consensus would be quickly reached among experts on how to clean a particular mod, and this final cleaned version would be the reference to help out people who experience difficulties with the mod.

A very important requirement for the CLEAN masterlist would be to track mod versions AND file checksums (i.e. CRC or MD5), especially for mods that are still in development, because applying automated cleaning designed for another version would likely be a disaster. But in any case the focus would be on older released mods that are abandoned or in final state. Imagine installing all the great quest mods from Simyaz, plus the Lost Spires, plus all the Eldosian dungeons, etc, and have them all clean in minutes at the press of a button. Sounds like a dream, but honestly with support from the right people this project could take shape very quickly.

Well, then, why don't you do it then! It's all well and good for others to make suggestions... I did my cleaning a long time ago and just simply use my cleaned versions whenever I do a fresh install. I've also done a lot of bug fixes and other adjustments, so I don't even remember what needed cleaning and what was a bug fix anymore...

Cleanup of West Roads, version 1.3

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=29523

Found issues:

* [Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 1394 Removed Records: 5 Elapsed Time: 00:00
* [Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 1389 Undeleted Records: 10 Elapsed Time: 00:00


Tested with all implicit dependencies loaded. I did not investigate at this time if any further manual cleaning was required.

I have separate projects for those. I clean first, and those go into the Clean Plugins project. Afterward, I do tweaks, and those go into My Changes, which sits one priority spot higher in BAIN over the other. ^___^ I like keeping all versions in their "original" state, ha-ha.

I signed up TESCSWiki too. ^___^


Happy gaming!
- Tomlong75210

Thomas, thank you for reporting. I updated the CS Wiki To Clean list accordingly. If you are a member of the CS Wiki it would be great to update the Wiki with any findings.

What were the implicit dependencies for this one? I'm thinking if one could or should make a respective note in the Wiki to point them out for the next cleaner.

Yeah I would say so. In the meantime, clean a couple of your mods and post any finding and update the CS Wiki. That would be cool too. :icecream:

http://cs.elderscrolls.com/constwiki/index.php/TES4Edit_Cleaning_Guide#List_of_Mods_Needing_Cleaning

The Already Clean List follows right thereafter.

-Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul
-Kvatch Rebuilt
-UL River Ethe
-UL Skingrad Outskirts

West Roads contains implicit compatibility tweaks for all of those mods.
I signed up over at the CS Wiki and made an adjustment to the Let The People Drink entry for further clarification.

Excellent! I saw your update. Don't you want to add the version number of LTPD ? I guess it's 2.5

Currently Hoarfrost Castle holds the UDR issues record with 730!! :ribbon:

Tested: Moonshadow Elves - Sc.esp

(Link not provided, potential nvde photos)

Mod is clean.

A word of caution, however. This mod might bloat your save game.

EDIT: Version number added.

Don't do that. It is pointless anyway, as if you have your entire load order loaded into TES4Edit, then the cleaning will be skewed due to earlier loading mods containing the same vanilla records but different to vanilla. This would mean that the one you are cleaning, which edits those same records but has them identical to master, will NOT have the records removed, as the earlier loaded mod changes the record.



You should get the latest version, 3.0.15, it's perfectly safe.

Good to know, thank you Vorians! I will obey.

And if I understand you correctly, you would advise against "just loading the whole modlist" up to the one mod you want to clean, right? Because I was thinking of doing that myself in order to include all possible dependencies.

Absolutely I advise against it, and so does Elminster When cleaning, you should ONLY ever load the files which the ESP you wish to clean is either implicitly or explicitly dependant upon, absolutely no others whatsoever at all not even to consider the idea of adding just one more to save time or for fun or perhaps because they do similar things to the one you are already preparing to clean so it seemed like a good idea to do them together. Bad idea! Grab a stick and hit that idea until it goes away.

:toughninja:
Ok it's gone now.
Still the part of the guide speaking of the "indirect dependencies" is the really intricate part of cleaning.

For experienced modders like you, tell me please, how hard or easy is it to find out about these "indirects". Let me put up an example:

There is Hoarfrost Castle. It adds a room in the Cheyinhal Mages Guild basemant, apparently right in the very spot where Origin of the Mages Guild also creates a room. To resolve this conflict a nice guy named Vorians (yes, you ) made a compatibilty patch which places the one room slightly elsewhere in the basemant. Thanks for that by the way!

HC is only dependent on Oblivion.esm, while OMG is dependent on Oblivion.esm, CURP.esm and possibly CURP_Controller.esm Now lets assume we want to clean Vorians' patch: I guess one would have to load OB.esm, the 2 CURP.esm, HC.esp and OMG.esp plus the patch of course, correct? I'm not in front of WB right now, so can't say if these are all already Masters to your patch or not. But if one of them were not, would it be the correct judgment call to still include it for cleaning the patch? :unsure:

You're pretty rude, aren't ya? So according to you if one has ideas or a clear vision of what needs to be done, but no time to implement them he shouldn't share them? Brainstorming is evil?

Unfortunately, there are about two or three people in this community who can make the tools needed to realize such a project. Until they decide to nothing can be done.
Even if they did, I won't be the one to lead such a large-scale community project. I already contribute to the wiki, to BOSS and other stuff and I don't have more time available. Heck, I barely play Oblivion in the middle of all that.

I know. That was a mistake on my part. It has been about five months since I last cleaned a plugin. I definitely have not had TES4Edit eating over 1GB while cleaning plugins before. I even have that posted on my site (in caps) http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/?page=plugin_cleaning_basic


Edit: I don't remember what I was doing at the time either. I was pretty tired last week...

Edit: @Tommy_H: I got home pretty late, and the BCS Championship (American College Football thing) took up most of my evening. I managed to update my website a bit though. As long as the road conditions are not too bad today, I should be home much earlier, and I'll have a chance to look over my cleaned plugins projects.

Had to laugh at that one :rofl: Vorians and Arthmoor handle all that quite well I've seen. Besides when you get that many loaded only to find two records or something - I leave them.

I agree most with Elminster about one thing - that the best results will be in convincing mod makers to do this prior to release. That is the source of it.

Creating new lists about what to clean what not to clean will only lead to it being outdated later - then what kind of service is it?

Posting about it here is preaching to the choir. Bring this up on Nexus where some modders are more than here and it is shocking-threatening for some.