Tes4Edit Cleaning Guide on CS Wiki : IV - Oblivion

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:09 am

For experienced modders like you, tell me please, how hard or easy is it to find out about these "indirects".

Read the readme and the Description box for the ESP, check the release thread for the mod on Beth forums and read all posts by the mod author in that thread. If it doesn't say in any of those locations, you're stuffed. Only the mod creator can truly know what mods he specifically designed his mod to work around without issue, so if he doesn't list that down in the readme, there's absolutely no way anyone else is going to know - including the most likely answer, that there aren't any implicit dependencies. Personally I simply assume that there are no implicit dependencies if the author hasn't mentioned any, but that doesn't mean I'm right every time. I certainly do NOT take the time to check release threads for all of the author's posts, I just check the readme and the Description box and decide from that.

Which is why, as Psymon just reminded us, Elminster stated that the mod authors should be doing the cleaning not the mod users.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:31 am

We can at least tackle some of the older, popular mods that are not likely to be updated (i.e., big quest mods.) BC has saved me from cleaning a few nasty re-cleaning jobs: The Mystery of the Dulan Cult and Blood&Mud. The are many mods that have a very simple structure (i.e., new item mods) and those are still worth cleaning. If there are lots of scripts and dependencies and whatnot, we can leave those to the mod authors (if they're still around...) That still leaves thousands.

OOooh, I just found the Hoarfrost Castle + OMG patch yesterday. Thanks Vorians! That was a completely random search, but I am glad I tried. The conflict definitely bothered me... I throw out mods for less, and I haven't really tried out Hoarfrost Castle yet. OMG is almost always in my LO, so the castle mod's chances were not looking very good until I discovered that patch.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:45 am

Had to laugh at that one :rofl: Vorians and Arthmoor handle all that quite well I've seen. Besides when you get that many loaded only to find two records or something - I leave them.

Yeah... now you made me :rofl:

I knew it was a silly example because I know Vorians and Arthmoor are among those very diligent about cleaning up their "acts"

It was really just meant as an example for illustration.

OK so I learn we should not be attempting to mind-read the authors, but try to go on tangibles like readme's and so on.

I am fully aware that having those list on CS Wiki is not ideal because of outdating, conflicting double-information listed elsewhere and so on. However, it is still not bad to have them, I say.

See, I was not aware of them actually until I read a post by Arthmoor the other day where he said he updated the list with the LTPD cleaning issue (someone had CTDs with it). Obviously I checked if I had any of those listed mods installed and sure enough I have. So now at least I now I need to do some cleaning. That's quite an education from previously. I mean I've read one SHOULD clean but always pushed it aside... baaahhh, relatively stable game, so why bother.... well we could read from Arkngt the other day what "dirty" mods can do... cost him lots of time and hassle.

So if a gamer decides he wants to start cleaning, those lists are not such a bad place to spend 10 minutes and get an idea of where to start or which to skip.

I would just make a plea for any new or updated contributions to include the mod version number, if available. Otherwise the next user has no idea if the entry pertains to an older version or not.

Of course making the modders aware of the desireabilty to clean would be ideal, but as has been said we can forget about it, on a large scale anyway.

In principle, modders should edit / update the "Already Clean" list, while mod users should update the "Needs Cleaning" list.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:54 am

Yeah... now you made me :rofl:

I knew it was a silly example because I know Vorians and Arthmoor are among those very diligent about cleaning up their "acts"

It was really just meant as an example for illustration.

OK so I learn we should not be attempting to mind-read the authors, but try to go on tangibles like readme's and so on.

I am fully aware that having those list on CS Wiki is not ideal because of outdating, conflicting double-information listed elsewhere and so on. However, it is still not bad to have them, I say.

See, I was not aware of them actually until I read a post by Arthmoor the other day where he said he updated the list with the LTPD cleaning issue (someone had CTDs with it). Obviously I checked if I had any of those listed mods installed and sure enough I have. So now at least I now I need to do some cleaning. That's quite an education from previously. I mean I've read one SHOULD clean but always pushed it aside... baaahhh, relatively stable game, so why bother.... well we could read from Arkngt the other day what "dirty" mods can do... cost him lots of time and hassle.

So if a gamer decides he wants to start cleaning, those lists are not such a bad place to spend 10 minutes and get an idea of where to start or which to skip.

I would just make a plea for any new or updated contributions to include the mod version number, if available. Otherwise the next user has no idea if the entry pertains to an older version or not.

Of course making the modders aware of the desireabilty to clean would be ideal, but as has been said we can forget about it, on a large scale anyway.

In principle, modders should edit / update the "Already Clean" list, while mod users should update the "Needs Cleaning" list.

We should use the latest "cleaned" version numbers, and stick to the version+ because not everyone wants to update their mods, certain mods anyway...

Edit: wording

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:42 am

Cleanup of Oblivion WarCry, version 1.09 EV

http://forums.bethso...1#entry16271741

Found issues:

[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 2431 Removed Records: 28 Elapsed Time: 00:00
[Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 2403 Undeleted Records: 0 Elapsed Time: 00:00

WarCry has only Oblivion.esm as master.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:52 pm

Cleanup of Strotis IC Player Home, no version number

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35485

Found nothing, mod is clean. I made an addition to the CS Wiki Clean list.Thank you, Stroti! :thumbsup:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:49 am

Cleanup of Oblivion WarCry, version 1.09 EV

http://forums.bethso...1#entry16271741

Found issues:

[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 2431 Removed Records: 28 Elapsed Time: 00:00
[Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 2403 Undeleted Records: 0 Elapsed Time: 00:00

WarCry has only Oblivion.esm as master.

What records were found? That was a pretty recent update.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:57 am

Cleanup of COBL Races TNR, version 1.53

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21104

Found nothing, mod is clean. I made an addition to the CS Wiki Clean list.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:38 am

I have found it very useful that some mods now state that they have been cleaned with Tes4edit in their readme. I try to pay attention to those.

Thanks for starting this thread and the updated list, much appreciated. :thumbsup:

I am now starting something completly new to my game experience, a game with no overhauls. My goal is to cap my level at 25 (using Wrye Leveling) and then just play quest mods, forget all the vanilla and overhaul quests that I have done 20 time already. Just mods that make changes (which more overhauls do now), most of which are 3-4 year old mods. So I should be able to contribute something (I hope, RL permitting).

Keep up the good work.

Peter Id (first time poster, long time reader

)

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:37 am

We can at least tackle some of the older, popular mods that are not likely to be updated (i.e., big quest mods.) BC has saved me from cleaning a few nasty re-cleaning jobs: The Mystery of the Dulan Cult and Blood&Mud.

BC does not include a replacer ESP for Blood & Mud, so you'll still need to check that one (and it does need a bit of cleaning, but I don't think it's bad. Has been a couple years since I looked at it though, I may misremember).

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:58 am

What records were found? That was a pretty recent update.

Yes I know, but the Oblivion WarCry EV v1.09 cleanup run found these 28 ITM's:

Spoiler

Removing: MarkTestSpriggan "Spriggan" [CREA:000AD371]Removing: E3KvatchAttackClanFear02 "Clannfear" [CREA:0009808C]Removing: E3KvatchAttackClanFear01 "Clannfear" [CREA:0009805E]Removing: E3KvatchAttackCaptainClanfear01 "Clannfear" [CREA:00098046]Removing: OGCreatureClannfearRuntWeak "Clannfear" [CREA:00097C7D]Removing: MS94Clannfear "Clannfear" [CREA:00097C7C]Removing: OGCreatureClannfearRunt "Clannfear" [CREA:000545E6]Removing: ArenaEbonyHelmet "Ebony Helmet" [ARMO:000733F3]Removing: ArenaEbonyShield "Ebony Shield" [ARMO:000733EF]Removing: EbonyShield "Ebony Shield" [ARMO:00036356]Removing: EbonyGreaves "Ebony Greaves" [ARMO:00036354]Removing: EbonyBoots "Ebony Boots" [ARMO:00036353]Removing: EbonyGauntlets "Ebony Gauntlets" [ARMO:00036352]Removing: EbonyHelmet "Ebony Helmet" [ARMO:00036351]Removing: GlassGreaves "Glass Greaves" [ARMO:00036342]Removing: EbonyCuirass "Ebony Cuirass" [ARMO:0002AD85]Removing: DAClavicusMasque "Masque of Clavicus Vile" [ARMO:000228EE]Removing: DAUmbraShield15 "Umbra's Ebony Shield" [ARMO:0000A312]Removing: DAUmbraHelmet15 "Umbra's Ebony Helmet" [ARMO:0000A311]Removing: DAUmbraGreaves15 "Umbra's Ebony Greaves" [ARMO:0000A310]Removing: DAUmbraGauntlets15 "Umbra's Ebony Gauntlets" [ARMO:0000A30F]Removing: DAUmbraBoots15 "Umbra's Ebony Boots" [ARMO:0000A30D]Removing: DAUmbraShield9 "Umbra's Ebony Shield" [ARMO:0000A30C]Removing: DAUmbraHelmet9 "Umbra's Ebony Helmet" [ARMO:0000A30B]Removing: DAUmbraGreaves9 "Umbra's Ebony Greaves" [ARMO:0000A30A]Removing: DAUmbraGauntlets9 "Umbra's Ebony Gauntlets" [ARMO:0000A309]Removing: LpAtronachFrostTouch "Freezing Touch" [SPEL:0003C17E]Removing: LpAtronachFrostBolt "Atronach Frostbolt" [SPEL:0003C17B]

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:04 am

BC does not include a replacer ESP for Blood & Mud, so you'll still need to check that one (and it does need a bit of cleaning, but I don't think it's bad. Has been a couple years since I looked at it though, I may misremember).

...that means the only replacers I'm using from BC are Dulan Cult and Vaults...hmm... I must be using the version out of the Cleaned 2010 project. Yeah...I need to go through those when I get home...

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:58 pm

Cleanup of COBL Races TNR SI, version 1.53

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21104

That's the Shivering Isles version of Cobl Races TNR.
Here also found nothing, mod is clean. I made an addition to the CS Wiki Clean list.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:26 am

Cleanup of Kvatch Rebuilt, version 1.1

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=15412
That's the original, "Non-Grammar Patch" version. There is a "Grammar Patch" version (which I am successfully using) that has Tesnexus ID no. 33330. Its cleanup run yields more records processed but the same number of issues found (26 and 4, see below)

What I am reporting here is the cleanup run for the original "Kvatch Rebuilt.esp" v1.1 only. It lists Oblivion.esm and Kvatch Rebuilt.esm as masters.

Found issues:

[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 2895 Removed Records: 26 Elapsed Time: 00:00
[Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 2869 Undeleted Records: 4 Elapsed Time: 00:00

Full cleanup log:

Spoiler

Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP1NorthernCamp [CELL:0101CE2F] (in KRStage1 "Kvatch" [WRLD:0101CB05] at -35,-2)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP1Chapel [CELL:0101CDA4] (in KRStage1 "Kvatch" [WRLD:0101CB05] at -35,-3)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0101CD38] (in KRStage1 "Kvatch" [WRLD:0101CB05] at -38,-3)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP1Keep [CELL:0101CCCB] (in KRStage1 "Kvatch" [WRLD:0101CB05] at -36,-2)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP1PinderStatue [CELL:0101CC80] (in KRStage1 "Kvatch" [WRLD:0101CB05] at -36,-3)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP1MainGate [CELL:0101CC30] (in KRStage1 "Kvatch" [WRLD:0101CB05] at -36,-4)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP1Arena [CELL:0101CBFD] (in KRStage1 "Kvatch" [WRLD:0101CB05] at -34,-2)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP1EasternRuins [CELL:0101CBB9] (in KRStage1 "Kvatch" [WRLD:0101CB05] at -34,-3)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP1SouthEastCorner [CELL:0101CB99] (in KRStage1 "Kvatch" [WRLD:0101CB05] at -34,-4)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0101CB80] (in KRStage1 "Kvatch" [WRLD:0101CB05] at -37,-1)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP1Moat [CELL:0101CB26] (in KRStage1 "Kvatch" [WRLD:0101CB05] at -37,-3)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0101CB18] (in KRStage1 "Kvatch" [WRLD:0101CB05] at -37,-4)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP2NorthernCamp [CELL:01013497] (in KRStage2 "Kvatch" [WRLD:01013108] at -35,-2)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP2Chapel [CELL:01013404] (in KRStage2 "Kvatch" [WRLD:01013108] at -35,-3)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01013393] (in KRStage2 "Kvatch" [WRLD:01013108] at -38,-3)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP2Keep [CELL:0101331B] (in KRStage2 "Kvatch" [WRLD:01013108] at -36,-2)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP2PinderStatue [CELL:010132B3] (in KRStage2 "Kvatch" [WRLD:01013108] at -36,-3)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP2MainGate [CELL:01013233] (in KRStage2 "Kvatch" [WRLD:01013108] at -36,-4)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP2Arena [CELL:01013200] (in KRStage2 "Kvatch" [WRLD:01013108] at -34,-2)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP2Mausoleum [CELL:010131BC] (in KRStage2 "Kvatch" [WRLD:01013108] at -34,-3)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP2SouthEastCorner [CELL:0101319C] (in KRStage2 "Kvatch" [WRLD:01013108] at -34,-4)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:01013183] (in KRStage2 "Kvatch" [WRLD:01013108] at -37,-1)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRP2WesternMoat [CELL:01013129] (in KRStage2 "Kvatch" [WRLD:01013108] at -37,-3)Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0101311B] (in KRStage2 "Kvatch" [WRLD:01013108] at -37,-4)Removing: [REFR:0014C7BA] (places RockWestWealdBurnt04 [STAT:0002CB3C] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0000AB34] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at -35,-1))Removing: [REFR:0014C7B8] (places RockWestWealdBurnt04 [STAT:0002CB3C] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0000AB34] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at -35,-1))[Removing "Identical to Master" records done]  Processed Records: 2895 Removed Records: 26 Elapsed Time: 00:00Undeleting: [REFR:0018B276] (places LL1WildernessPlains [LVLC:000343DC] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0000AB6B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at -44,-3))Undeleting: [REFR:000C9472] (places RockGreatForest050Lichen [STAT:0003CFDF] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of [CELL:0000AB4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at -44,-2))Undeleting: [REFR:0018B29F] (places LL1WildernessPlains [LVLC:000343DC] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRMain02LaughingStandCamp [CELL:0000AB4C] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at -43,-2))Undeleting: [REFR:0010333E] (places RockGreatForest1500GC [STAT:0003D035] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KRMain04SaltMarshCaveWaterfall [CELL:000033CA] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 32,20))[Undeleting and Disabling References done]  Processed Records: 2869 Undeleted Records: 4 Elapsed Time: 00:00

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:50 pm

Cleanup of official DLC Shivering Isles, version 1.2.0406 (version from my GOTY DVD)

Found nothing, mod is clean.
I made an addition to the Already Clean list.

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:14 pm

Cleanup of Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses, SI version

Found nothing, mod is clean.
I will add to the Already clean list.

It is the SI version of the file I've been cleaning. This plugin has 2 masters: Oblivion.esm and Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm. When all 3 are loaded in Tes4Edit and the "inherited by parent" filter is applied, all three are showing a red background, indicating conflicts. I still went ahead with the next 2 cleanup steps but they found do issues. So I guess all is fine as is.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:22 am

Cleanup of Cobl Glue, version 1.73

Found issues:

[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 1604 Removed Records: 0 Elapsed Time: 00:00
[Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 1604 Undeleted Records: 14 Elapsed Time: 00:00

So the only issues were undeleted records.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:58 am

Cleanup of Bob's Armory Oblivion version 1.1

Which is why, as Psymon just reminded us, Elminster stated that the mod authors should be doing the cleaning not the mod users.

Cleanup of Oblivion WarCry, version 1.09 EV

Yes I know, but the Oblivion WarCry EV v1.09 cleanup run found these 28 ITM's:

Which are just indetical to master's anyway's , already cleaned up for the Next Update which is am looking at right now..

And if it is Related to FCOM (Frans, OOO, MMM, Warcry, Bob's ) or Cobl please notify us VIA the MAIN threads ...

Has I or Rest team members may not read this thread all the time..

Once Again notify the Mod Authors or Caretakers once again..

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:46 am

Cleanup of All Natural - Real Lights, version 1.1

Found issues:

[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 29799 Removed Records: 0 Elapsed Time: 00:00
[Undeleting and Disabling References done] Processed Records: 29799 Undeleted Records: 3 Elapsed Time: 00:01

Almost 30.000 records but only 3 UDR's found :thumbsup: These are the details:

Spoiler

Undeleting: [REFR:00032FA7] (places CandleFat02 [STAT:000191AC] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of LeyawiinBlackwoodCompanyTrainingHall "Blackwood Company Training Hall " [CELL:00032F01])Undeleting: [REFR:00032FA4] (places CandleFat01 [STAT:000191AB] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of LeyawiinBlackwoodCompanyTrainingHall "Blackwood Company Training Hall " [CELL:00032F01])Undeleting: [REFR:00032F8D] (places CandleFat02 [STAT:000191AC] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of LeyawiinBlackwoodCompanyTrainingHall "Blackwood Company Training Hall " [CELL:00032F01])

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:48 am

Cleanup of official DLC Shivering Isles, version 1.2.0406 (version from my GOTY DVD)

Found nothing, mod is clean.
I made an addition to the Already Clean list.

:rofl: :rofl: :teehee: :lmao:
Cleaned DLCShiveringIsles.esp, found nothing... oh how right you are! That's a dummy ESP which exists purely to force the game to load the SI BSA files, it does not contain a single record in it (other than the Header, but that doesn't count).

Thanks for posting that, made me laugh as you can tell :whistling:

» Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:30 pm

Cleanup of official DLC Shivering Isles, version 1.2.0406 (version from my GOTY DVD)

Found nothing, mod is clean.
I made an addition to the Already Clean list.

Tommy_H...??

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:34 am

Cleanup of official DLC Shivering Isles, version 1.2.0406 (version from my GOTY DVD)

Found nothing, mod is clean.
I made an addition to the Already Clean list.

Umm... :whisper: :lmao:

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:05 am

OK, that's a bit embarrassing. Relish the moment, I will not give you another one.

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:26 am

OK, that's a bit embarrassing. Relish the moment, I will not give you another one.

I pulled one of those two days ago, but I caught myself first...kind of, ha-ha.

No worries!
- Tomlong75210

Edit: Well, that was a typo...

» Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:42 am

OK, that's a bit embarrassing. Relish the moment, I will not give you another one.

There is of course nothing wrong with adding it to the clean list, it was only the idea of checking it first that was funny.