Perhaps you could get a screenshot of the water height edit? It'll be easier to tell whether the edit was intentional or not if we can see it, but I will hazard a guess at no.

Also, do you think you could get a dirty ref count on eyja.esp since you're already there and looking over the plugin?

Wayyy over my head buddy. Don't know anything about height edits or how to take a screenshot of one in game.. I did get tes4edit if you mean a sshot of eyja.esp with that specific reference tracked down in the program.. that i MIGHT be able to do, I only used tes4edit for one thing in the past (to modify the water height edit glenvar castle adds to the southern shore)

As far as dirty ref counts i have no idea where to find that. If you let me know how I'll certainly try though.

See the opening post of http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1177005-moded-oblivion-screenshot-thread-276/ for a guide on how to take screenshots. It can be very useful for trouble shooting.

I know how to take a screenshot in game, but not how to take a picture of height edits or whatever. I was mainly asking if he meant a screenshot in tes4edit or some other program or if there was something I could take a shot of in-game to show me a specific height edit (maybe some developer console [censored]e i dont know about)

This is probably a bit premature, but when a dirty mod is posted, could its CRC checksum (before cleaning) also be posted with it (and checksums recorded in the list perhaps)?

This is so that the next versions of BOSS and Wrye Bash will be able to detect specific dirty plugins. It looks like those releases are still a bit off, so getting hold of the checksums is a bit involved, but for those that want to go the extra mile and help, here are some instructions for using 7-zip to get the CRCs:

• Open 7-zip File Manager.
  
• In the 7-zip File Manager, navigate to the plugin you wish to calculate the checksum of.
  
• Right-click the plugin and select "Calculate checksum" from the menu. The calculation won't take more than a couple of seconds for even large plugins.
  
• The relevant checksum is the 8 character alphanumerical string after "CRC checksum for data:"

It's a bit out-of-the-way, I know. The next version of BOSS will have an option to display CRCs which will make the process a lot quicker, but I think it's worth letting others know that the information would be appreciated even now.

Having these checksums reported would be a big step towards accurate automatic detection of dirty mods. The CRCs of all the currently known dirty mods also need to be calculated, but that's a fairly large backlog and I can get on to that later, I think it's best if I try to minimise growth in it ATM.

If for some reason, I get the sudden urge to calculate a bunch of check sums, where would you like them posted? In the BOSS thread?

If such an inexplicable urge occurs, posting them in the BOSS thread or in this one will be fine. I keep tabs on both.

Oh, and one last question: you need the checksum of the pre-cleaned version right? i.e. the orginal plugin.

Yep. Pre-cleaned. I don't need the cleaned plugin's CRC.

Ah damn - Sorry Wrinkly, just noticed your above posts .. Bad timing I have just been cleaning all my mods and dont have originals left.


For the OP - A few more details to add to the list


DarknessHollows.esp - Version 1.6 - 22 ITM

DLCBattlehornCastle.esp - 13 ITM 74 UDR (You have this listed but no results)

Oblivifall - Ambient Dungeon SFX.esp - Version 1.2 - 1 ITM

Edit: Missed one I did on the desktop ...

Apachii_Goddess_Store.esp - Version 1.6 - 3 UDR

Edit2: Just one question - Why isn't this topic stickied? - Reported this comment, see what the moderators think.

Open TES4Edit, load eyja.esp and xulfallenleafeverglade.esp together, navigate to the offending cell edit in any plugin in the Worldspace block (see the UL thread for a cell gridmap if you need help with an estimation), scroll down to the water height portion, scroll so we can compare edits made by Eyja and Fallenleaf Everglade, and hit the print screen key.

Same as taking a screenshot ingame, only you are taking a screenshot of the TES4Edit interface.

@alt3rn1ty: The main problem with stickying a list like this is that it needs to be updated constantly, and it is largely up to the community to report whether mods need cleaning or are already clean (I really cannot do that by myself). This means that we need to allow for a fair amount of posting in the list thread, and once we hit post limit, the thread is locked and not only can we not continue making posts for commits to the lists, but I can't edit the lists anymore. If stickied, whenever we hit post limit, we would need to start a new thread, get it stickied again, un-sticky the old thread, and do that every time we hit 200 posts. I'm not sure the moderators would particularly enjoy the extra workload for this one thread.

The two workarounds are:

1: Request for exception to the post limit for that thread, since the threads have to be manually locked when the post limit is reached (and I'm quite sure that won't happen).

2: Split the list into two threads, one that is stickied that you are not allowed to comment in (but remains unlocked so the OP can be edited), and one unstickied where the commit requests are made. This seems inefficient to me, though.

Understood, it just seems a shame such a valuable OP will eventually fall off the edge of the forum.

Anyway, thank you for starting and maintaining this. I have popped in a few times but needed to put a couple of hours asside to get to grips with the subject. A bit late to the party but have appreciated the need to do this for quite a while.

The combination of the link to Brumbeks excellent guide, plus all the verified ITM and UDR values anyone can expect from their first tentative steps into trying this (and having such an extensive list which pretty much everyone will find something in their load order for a reference to begin), builds confidence in cleaning mods very quickly. Once past doing the procedure very carefully for the first few tries... Turns a complicated subject into a walk in the park.

Very nice.

Don't worry. I've now mirrored the list in three other places (the CS Wiki, TES Alliance, and Arthmoor's AFK Mods board), so rest assured this info will never be lost.

A few more details for the list:

All Progress plugins are clean and don't need any additional cleaning. This includes (I didn't try ProgressGSD.esp because I don't use it):

ProgressMBSP.esp [v2.00]
ProgressSBSP.esp [v1.00]
ProgressRBSP.esp [v1.00]
ProgressRacial.esp [v1.00]

And here are the record counts for a few of the plugins listed:

ClocksOfCyrodiil.esp 46 ITM, 20 UDR
The Mystery of the Dulan cult.esp 4569 ITM, 16 UDR (get a coffee, takes about 11 minutes to filter)
Realistic Water.esp [v3.00] 3 ITM, 0 UDR
VaultsofCyrodiil.esp 15 ITM, 58 UDR

Dulan cult is also one of those in need of special instructions IIRC. I forget exactly what, but it's got some other issues besides just a high ITM count.

*casts Summon Vorians*

Since he probably had to do all that cleanup for the BC compatible version, he would be the best one to ask.

:poke:

That was so long ago, I really don't recall what special issues Dulan Cult had now. Should be easy for someone who knows what they're looking at in TES4Edit to spot though, I should think. I don't have the free time to look into such things at the moment, maybe this weekend if no one else can find the info first.

*casts Unsummon Self*
:bolt:

I've got a question concerning path grids.

Are path grid edits in outdoor cells without any other mod-related changes, neither persistent nor temporary or visible when distant or at least land alterations, wild edits in general or do they still have a purpose?

I certainly always consider pathgrid edits in cells which contain no other record edits to be wild edits. There is one rare exception, which is where a mod needs to add a direct path to reach a location which didn't have a direct path already, but in my experience it is rare that any mod truly needed that path, usually there is already one available, simply not in a straight line.

Thanks for the information!

In case of mods that don't add new creatures, NPCs or packages, it means that such occurences are wild edits, then.

No. If a mod plops a new dungeon down in the wilderness, the path grid edits are to re-route the path grids around and into the ruin. Vorians said they are wild edits if the cell has NO OTHER RECORD EDITS. That detail is very important. Landscape editing can entail several cells. Those landscape edits might require path grid edits. You need to know what to look for if you are getting into this level of cleaning.

I recommend you leave them alone if you don't know what path grids are.

I've mentioned landscape edits - or the lack of them - in my initial question. The case is an outdoor cell in Tamriel Worldspace without any edit whatsoever (no landscape edit!) apart from a pathgrid alteration. There are, however, landscape edits and pathgrid changes in the neighboring cells, but not in that particular one. (all checked in TES4EDIT)

Thanks for the feedback, btw.

In that case it sounds like the author might have tried to auto-gen the path grids, which usually results in edits half-way across Tamriel You can try removing them and then perhaps have a look at the results in the CS afterwards to see if all the path grids are still linked.

Or the CS scattered junk edits around. There's a few areas in Tamriel that cause that. One of them happens to be the region just north of Faregyl. It's not really an issue unless you have more than one mod needing to edit the area. I take the time to remove stuff like that only for my own use, or in my own mods for release. Otherwise you could be chasing these ghosts for ages.

I offer my personal opinion there, others may disagree But most certainly yes, if a mod does not contain new AI packages, and does not place NPCs or creatures (this is more than simply containing actor records, as the mod might make use of existing creatures or NPCs and place them) then it's highly unlikely that any cell containing ONLY pathgrid records is a needed edit.
HOWEVER
If you remove such edits, you should then take a look using the CS along the borders of the cells touching those which you just removed, to ensure that there are still pathgrid links crossing the cell borders if there used to be such links there without the mod. Sometimes, it is necessary to remove those wild-edit pathgrid records, launch the CS, restore any lost cross-border path-links, then once again open in TES4Edit and remove the wild records and again check in the CS that the links remain. If you cannot get the links to exist after that, then you may still need to include those pathgrid records even though they are wild edits.