It would be a truly sad thing to see it get killed because of this. Maybe someone Zaldir is actually responding to would be willing to pass along the fixed plugin files? That's all that's broken are the two plugin files.

Just put part of my mod list through the washing machine. The results...

Dirty:




Already clean:

I don't know of a Zaldir, but I do know a Zaldiir, and have been in contact with him a number of times. He's responsive to communication. I couldn't find KR Underground on Nexus for download but Googling produces a Nexus forum thread by Zaldiir promoting the mod. Are people actually contacting the correct person about this? There is a Zaldir registered on Nexus, but that person hasn't been active since 2003.

EDIT
Just seen that the issues most recently reported with Better Cities are in fact caused by KR Underground rather than BC, so I'm going to try to contact Zaldiir myself, seeing as I've been in contact with him before.

I dunno, I was trying to contact the "zaldir" listed here since that's the profile that started the thread. Maybe his box is full here though. This forum has a nasty habit of not telling you that when you send messages to a full one.

Also had an http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1167176-kvatch-rebuilt-underground-beta/ at the end of the thread when I first discovered a few of the edits. There's more than just those though. So if you end up getting ahold of him I can provide the two fixed files which will allow the mod to function properly.

I've only ever contacted him through his Nexus profile, and have indeed sent him a PM. I also mentioned that you can provide fixed files if he hasn't made further edits to the mod since the last public release.

Been in contact, he's going to PM Arthmoor now.

Vorians: Can you elaborate more on how to clean the wild edit in the Naked Nord? A link would suffice if this info is already on the TES4Cleaning Guide.

I don't think it needs anything special. Nothing vanilla is deleted, and no vanilla persistent objects are edited either.

Got in touch, sent the fixed files to him. Hopefully beta 4 was the most recent.

EDIT: Yep. He's got the files now so I've removed the BOSS warning.


I don't recall how serious the wild edit was, but could certainly check if you still want to know what it is.

Excellent. I'm going to un-flag the mod in the lists now, too.

Glad we got that sorted.

Well I'd wait until he actually publishes the fixes...

Thanks Vorians and Arthmoor. I am not sure if I need to do anything if the wild edit is not serious. If not, a brief step-by-step guide (for idiots like me) would be helpful. Or a link to a website/help file would also do.

IWRRetrofittedLights.esp ITM 3
Auriel's_Retreat.esp ITM 2875 Really.
Fishing in Cyrodiil.esp ITM 36
PONLights.esp ITM 4
Elsweyr plantations & co..esp UDR 133
P1DcandlesForKleptos.esp ITM 1
Anvil_MorningGlory_Mixed.esp ITM 1

Adding: I couldn't find any information about whether or not it is safe to clean the bashed patch in the tutorial I read. Should I?

I downloaded and checked the mod before my previous post, I cannot see anything special about it. I believe that I came to the conclusion several weeks ago in another thread that the reason I had it in memory as a problem was that it renamed a vanilla interior cell, and I had another mod renaming the same interior cell; I'd merged the two mods together with Gecko a couple years previous and the differing cell names had upset the merge, so removing the renames resolved. Fairly sure that is all it was, and since for the majority of people merging with Gecko is not advised, it wouldn't be worth mentioning if that is all that's special about Naked Nord.

Lol, I was just taking a look at this myself and found that it's just a bit more than that. The renamed interior cells are probably not a big deal. An annoyance, but one that should just be left alone.

There is one wild dialogue edit: 00024102. That should be removed as it's an artifact of translation.

In the Tamriel worldspace, there's a couple of more important issues. The entire "Block 0,-2" branch should be removed as there is a wild landscape edit at the Leyawiin west gate. The entire "Block 1,-1" branch should also be removed as the only two edits there are the result of someone clicking on the havok sim in the CS and causing two vanilla skeleton parts to settle to the ground.

I wonder why nobody has ever asked for a patch for this for OC since it drops a few things in Leyawiin that would become inaccessible.

Yes they can be removed, but I didn't mention them as I thought the query was looking for some serious issues needing resolving for the mod to work.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=24608
BOSS indicates this file requires special cleaning and contains NULL references, so I ran TES4Edit and got this:

[00:00] Checking for Errors in [01] Waterfront Shack.esp
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EF9] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront02 [CELL:00005F4C] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 3,11))
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EF8] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront02 [CELL:00005F4C] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 3,11))
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EF7] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront02 [CELL:00005F4C] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 3,11))
[00:00] Above errors were found in :GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront02 [CELL:00005F4C] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 3,11)
[00:00] Above errors were found in :GRUP Cell Children of ICWaterfront02 [CELL:00005F4C] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 3,11)
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EFE] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront01 [CELL:00005F4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 2,11))
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EFB] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront01 [CELL:00005F4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 2,11))
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EFA] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront01 [CELL:00005F4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 2,11))
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EF6] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront01 [CELL:00005F4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 2,11))
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EF5] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront01 [CELL:00005F4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 2,11))
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EF3] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront01 [CELL:00005F4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 2,11))
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EF2] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront01 [CELL:00005F4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 2,11))
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EEF] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront01 [CELL:00005F4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 2,11))
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EEE] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront01 [CELL:00005F4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 2,11))
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EE9] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront01 [CELL:00005F4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 2,11))
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EE8] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront01 [CELL:00005F4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 2,11))
[00:00] NAME - Base -> Found a NULL reference, expected: ACTI,ALCH,AMMO,APPA,ARMO,BOOK,CLOT,CONT,DOOR,FLOR,FURN,GRAS,INGR,KEYM,LIGH,LVLC,MISC,SBSP,SGST,SLGM,SOUN,STAT,TREE,WEAP
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[REFR:01000EE7] (places NULL - Null Reference [00000000] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront01 [CELL:00005F4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 2,11))
[00:00] Above errors were found in :GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ICWaterfront01 [CELL:00005F4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 2,11)
[00:00] Above errors were found in :GRUP Cell Children of ICWaterfront01 [CELL:00005F4B] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 2,11)
[00:00] Above errors were found in :GRUP Exterior Cell Sub-Block 1, 0
[00:00] Above errors were found in :GRUP Exterior Cell Block 0, 0
[00:00] Above errors were found in :GRUP World Children of Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C]
[00:00] Above errors were found in :GRUP Top "WRLD"
[00:00] Above errors were found in :[01] Waterfront Shack.esp
[00:00] All Done!

They generate more concise errors via the UDR function since the NULL refs are considered invalid. Then it's a simple matter of tracking down the rogue deletes from there.

@Telyn: Thanks for that, I've added the mod along with a list of the NULL Refs under special cleaning instructions. You can find them very easy by running Undelete and Disable, as Arthmoor said. This allows you to easily track them down (just search fro FormIDs to pull them up) and re-delete them (hopefully in a more permanent fashion, as NULL Refs are not things you want in your plugin at all).

I also noticed someone ninja'd Wayshrines Improved into the wiki lists, so that's been added over here, now, as well. (13 ITM, 0 UDR).

Thank you both. I have not had to do special cleaning before, but with the instructions here it was very simple .

could someone please post special cleaning instructions for artefacts of the ancestors "http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=7079" as this is listed as needing cleaning but Tes4edit won't load it. also does anyone know where to find the meaning of the errors displayed when tes4edit checks a mod for errors?

If tes4edit won't load it, tes4edit can't clean it either

Is that the mod that has the corrupted record? If so it'll need something more low-level than tes4edit can go, like TESSnip.

but what are you suppossed to do with tessnip the error code in tes4edit is: "00:05] Background Loader: Fatal: " and deleting the entire cell DELETEDHdADungeon results in it loading in tes4edit but which part of the cell is preventing the mod from loading in tes4edit. Thanks for the reply. edit: I think I figured it out. Deleting the seemingly unused part GRUP under the heading GRUP Cell underneath DELETEDHdADungeon lets this mod load in tes4edit thanks for the direction to tessnip. If this has no negative consequences that I'm unaware of perhaps it should be uplooded to cleaning instructions as only knowing that it needs to be cleaned without knowing about tessnip or what to do with it is pretty annoying. Thanks for the help.

I'm looking into this now. Once I have pinpointed the problem, I will add special cleaning instructions for Artefacts of the Ancestors.

thanks