TES4Edit cleaning : IV

» Fri May 04, 2012 9:45 am

Boss is telling me i have loads of dirty edits which need cleaning so do i have to "clean" them, following this guide i presume http://cs.elderscrolls.com/index.php/TES4Edit_Cleaning_Guide or will it not really make any difference?

Just wondering how many people do clean their mods.

» Fri May 04, 2012 12:10 am

depends how many dirty edits they have and how many mods you are running... dirty mods in a heavily modded setup are a time bomb just waiting to ruin your fun. try to keep your modlist about high quality stuff and trusted modders.

» Fri May 04, 2012 2:38 am

Boss is telling me i have loads of dirty edits which need cleaning so do i have to "clean" them, following this guide i presume http://cs.elderscrolls.com/index.php/TES4Edit_Cleaning_Guide or will it not really make any difference?

Just wondering how many people do clean their mods.

BOSS tells you that your mods need cleaning and provides a link to instructions on how to clean them so that you can ignore the messages. Cleaning mods in no way provides any benefit whatsoever to your game, and the messages BOSS gives are just pointless wastes of space designed specifically to confuse you and make you miss the more important messages in the BOSS Log. I spend countless hours implementing support for these messages and then adding reports of dirty plugins as messages because I take great pleasure in wasting people's time.

/sarcasm

Of course you should clean them. :dry:

One dirty edit probably won't screw up your game, but they're bad for it, and you can do something about them, so why wouldn't you?

» Fri May 04, 2012 7:11 am

Ok thanks, sorry wrinklyninja didnt mean to offend you, im just quite new to wyre bash and modding so i didnt know how much of a impact dirty edits have on your game. Excuse me while i have a lot of reading to do

» Fri May 04, 2012 1:58 am

Ok thanks, sorry wrinklyninja didnt mean to offend you, im just quite new to wyre bash and modding so i didnt know how much of a impact dirty edits have on your game. Excuse me while i have a lot of reading to do :smile:

I didn't so much take offense as despair at the lack of logical thinking displayed. We all have off days though, and you're probably overwhelmed with new stuff or something.

» Fri May 04, 2012 1:59 pm

I didn't so much take offense as despair at the lack of logical thinking displayed. We all have off days though, and you're probably overwhelmed with new stuff or something.

From just reading the first few paragraphs of the cleaning guide i already have a better understanding and can understand your sarcasm more now to what i said. I am a bit overwhelmed with it all, only installed bash for the first time yestarday and have been reading and using it all of today. So my head had turned into mush by the time i made this thread

» Thu May 03, 2012 10:29 pm

Just read the whole guide and tried cleaning my first mod: http://tes.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=8711 i dont think it has any implicit dependancies and oblivion.esm was loaded as its explicit and this is what it removed:

Spoiler

[Filtering done] Processed Records: 1218776 Elapsed Time: 00:04
Removing: [CELL:000223E9] (in TestWorld [WRLD:0002525F] at 0,4)
Removing: GRUP Exterior Cell Sub-Block 0, 0
Removing: GRUP Exterior Cell Block 0, 0
Removing: [CELL:00002F2F] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 36,37)
Removing: GRUP Exterior Cell Sub-Block 4, 4
Removing: GRUP Exterior Cell Block 1, 1
Removing: NarfinselExRef [REFR:0001758D] (places ARDoor01b "Stone Door" [DOOR:0002EED2] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of [CELL:00023777] (in Tamriel [WRLD:0000003C] at 0,0))
Removing: [REFR:0005B30A] (places RootHavok07 [STAT:00060359] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FyrelightCave "Fyrelight Cave" [CELL:00014987])
Removing: VeyondCave03 "Veyond Sea of Darkness" [CELL:0005B2AB]
Removing: UnderpallCave03 "Underpall Keep - North Wing" [CELL:0003E22D]
Removing: ArrowshaftCavern02 "Lower Arrowshaft Cavern " [CELL:000A7948]
Removing: WarehouseCrime "Crime Warehouse" [CELL:0002A087]
Removing: Wenyandawik02 "Wenyandawik Edesel" [CELL:00095EDB]
Removing: ExhaustedMine02 "Exhausted Mine Spent Works" [CELL:0005F48E]
Removing: ToadstoolHollow03 "Toadstool Hollow Doubleback" [CELL:00097032]
Removing: Varondo02 "Varondo Beldastare" [CELL:00084E3C]
Removing: Veyond03 "Veyond Bangrara" [CELL:0001CDC8]
Removing: [REFR:000A8B6B] (places RootHavok01 [STAT:0006035D] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ArrowshaftCavern03 "Arrowshaft Cavern Subtarrane" [CELL:000A7946])
Removing: [REFR:00083D96] (places CaveDaylightAmbTRANS600 [LIGH:000A6FAB] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KingscrestCavern03 "Kingscrest Cavern Basin Chambers" [CELL:0008371B])
Removing: [REFR:00083D22] (places RootHavok01 [STAT:0006035D] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of KingscrestCavern03 "Kingscrest Cavern Basin Chambers" [CELL:0008371B])
Removing: UndertowCavern02 "Undertow Cavern Hold-Your-Breath" [CELL:0003FA4D]
Removing: Vahtacen02 "Vahtacen Lorsel" [CELL:0004B77B]
Removing: Welke02 "Welke Ceyede" [CELL:00093189]
Removing: [REFR:0008310C] (places SewerDaylight500 [LIGH:00083077] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of ImperialSewersElvenGardens02 "Sunken Sewers" [CELL:0000ABB2])
Removing: TempleMothCatacombs04 "Shrine of The Moth" [CELL:00092B52]
Removing: WindCave02 "Wind Cave Great Pit" [CELL:000A7944]
Removing: [REFR:000A229D] (places CDoor01 "Wood Door" [DOOR:00003513] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of BrokenPromisesCave "Broken Promises Cave" [CELL:000A0414])
Removing: GRUP Cell Persistent Children of BrokenPromisesCave "Broken Promises Cave" [CELL:000A0414]
Removing: [REFR:00085E42] (places AMBDungeonLP08 [SOUN:0007810D] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of FortHomestead01 "Fort Homestead" [CELL:00015E3F])
Removing: [REFR:00027D89] (places CathedralDoor03 "Door" [DOOR:0001DE2B] in GRUP Cell Persistent Children of SkingradChapelofJulianos "The Great Chapel of Julianos " [CELL:00027D5A])
Removing: GRUP Cell Persistent Children of SkingradChapelofJulianos "The Great Chapel of Julianos " [CELL:00027D5A]
Removing: Vilverin03 "Vilverin Wendesel" [CELL:000463F4]
Removing: BramblePointCave02 "Inner Bramblepoint Cave" [CELL:000A794C]
Removing: [REFR:00049D3C] (places cobweb04 [STAT:0001EF18] in GRUP Cell Temporary Children of LeyawiinCastleBasemant "Castle Leyawiin Basemant" [CELL:00048BD5])
Removing: GRUP Cell Temporary Children of LeyawiinCastleBasemant "Castle Leyawiin Basemant" [CELL:00048BD5]
Removing: LeyawiinCastleBasemant "Castle Leyawiin Basemant" [CELL:00048BD5]
Removing: Wendelbek04 "Wendelbek Silaseli" [CELL:000463E9]
Removing: CrayfishCave03 "Crayfish Vents" [CELL:0008B330]
Removing: Anutwyll02 "Anutwyll Inner Chambers" [CELL:000345A8]
Removing: Wendelbek02 "Wendelbek Aldmerisel" [CELL:000463F2]
Removing: Wendir02 "Wendir Nagasel" [CELL:000939C2]
Removing: SPLShockHit [SOUN:00146835]
Removing: NPCHorseDeath [SOUN:000A6544]
Removing: NPCHorseFootBack [SOUN:000CB506]
Removing: NPCHorseFootFront [SOUN:000A6545]
[Removing "Identical to Master" records done] Processed Records: 3670 Removed Records: 45 Elapsed Time: 00:00

I have no idea if thats what it should of removed or not :/ It probably did it right, im just paranoid as its my first cleaned mod. The first edit says its in a test world so i guess they are all unintentional edits.

» Thu May 03, 2012 10:51 pm

Bare in mind that some mods should NOT be cleaned. An example of this is MMM (Mart's Monster Mod). Luckily, most of the authors that require that no cleaning be done have documented it in their readmes.

And just to reiterate the importance of cleaning, it does help to stablize the game play, and so, less crashes = more game time. :biggrin:

» Fri May 04, 2012 1:30 pm

Bare in mind that some mods should NOT be cleaned. An example of this is MMM (Mart's Monster Mod). Luckily, most of the authors that require that no cleaning be done have documented it in their readmes.

And just to reiterate the importance of cleaning, it does help to stablize the game play, and so, less crashes = more game time. :biggrin:

Yes i think OOO is another one. Im reading the reports from boss and will obviously avoid the ones which say those edits are intentional and are not to be cleaned. It would be nice if all authors specified wether there mod can be cleaned or has been cleaned.

» Fri May 04, 2012 6:16 am

First of all, it's pretty much always safe to simply try cleaning and accept the results from following the Cleaning Guide process. That's because TES4Edit always creates a date-timestamped backup of the mod prior to actually doing anything. So if you encounter problems, you can always revert to the backup. And the backups are named in such a way they will not count against your 400 ESP+ESM+BSA files in the Data folder limit.

That said, I have cleaned hundreds following that guide and never had a problem with it's results. Just be sure you save the clean result when prompted upon closing TES4Edit.

-Dubious-

» Fri May 04, 2012 1:28 am

First of all, it's pretty much always safe to simply try cleaning and accept the results from following the Cleaning Guide process. That's because TES4Edit always creates a date-timestamped backup of the mod prior to actually doing anything. So if you encounter problems, you can always revert to the backup. And the backups are named in such a way they will not count against your 400 ESP+ESM+BSA files in the Data folder limit.

That said, I have cleaned hundreds following that guide and never had a problem with it's results. Just be sure you save the clean result when prompted upon closing TES4Edit.

-Dubious-

Thanks Dubious, thats put my mind at rest a bit. Yes i have and will save the backups it makes in case something does go wrong. But i feel overall feel a lot more confident now than i did when i first started reading the guide

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:11 am

it's pretty funny to look at BOSS log for unclean mods. as long as you're only adding well known great mods, everything is fine an dandy. now try adding something more obscure and all of a sudden bang! hundrers of dirty edits :lol:

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:42 am

Well known mods have dirty edits which need cleaning to aswell apparently. Like kvatch rebuilt for example. Is there anything wrong with looking at the boss log?

» Fri May 04, 2012 12:07 am

Kvatch Rebuilt shouldn't have any dirty edits left in it. Surely you're thinking of Kvatch Aftermath.

» Fri May 04, 2012 10:38 am

Well known mods have dirty edits which need cleaning to aswell apparently. Like kvatch rebuilt for example. Is there anything wrong with looking at the boss log?

Isn't that basically the same as your original question which frustrated WrinkyNinja? If there was something wrong with looking at the BOSS log, why would the program creators and maintainers go to the effort of adding and updating the info for the log to provide, and displaying the log providing a massive amount of important information to assist you with any potential remaining issues after getting your load order sorted?

Kvatch Rebuilt shouldn't have any dirty edits left in it. Surely you're thinking of Kvatch Aftermath.

Could be an old version of Kvatch Rebuilt?

» Fri May 04, 2012 5:15 am

Must of been another kvatch mod then. I only questioned looking at boss because someone above said it was funny looking at it. And i have little experience in this area so far, so im looking at what everyone is saying in detail.

» Fri May 04, 2012 7:06 am

I think he simply meant he thought it was funny when looking at the log and seeing the results, how it tended to be less well known mods which were listed as needing cleaning. Not so surprising though really, as the better known mods will have a lot of users so the authors will have received reports of any issues including some pointing out the cleaning process.

» Fri May 04, 2012 1:20 pm

I think he simply meant he thought it was funny when looking at the log and seeing the results, how it tended to be less well known mods which were listed as needing cleaning. Not so surprising though really, as the better known mods will have a lot of users so the authors will have received reports of any issues including some pointing out the cleaning process.

Ah fair enough. Im still learning haha :biggrin:

But yes it makes sense less well known mods with perhaps less experienced authors have more dirty/wild edits. Would be nice if every author cleaned their mod before release though. Perhaps a reminder should pop up before a user uploads a mod saying "have you cleaned your mod? if not look here..." But that'll make our lifes to easy i suppose :smile:

One quick question, ive cleaned a few mods now, but in bain im now getting a orange background on the installer to which the mod i cleaned and it says there is a conflict, yet the conflict box is empty. Is this because i cleaned the esp, the installer still has the original and is recognising it is different? I dont suppose it'll hurt leaving it like that will it? I guess the only solution to that would be to repackage the mod with the cleaned esp instead of the original and reinstall?

Also what does non solid mean compared to a solid archive? as ones i repackage myself are non solid.

» Fri May 04, 2012 2:14 am

yeah my example was:

I've just built a very heavily modded setup, FCOM+++ with over 200 mods. most of them are well known stuff by trusted modders, which I added first.

during this stage of adding mods a few at a time, sometimes BOSS would warn me of say, 10 dirty records in a mod here and there.

now after I was done with the must have mods, I tried trails of cyrodiil, which is a good mod but of course you can't compare it to, say, new roads and bridges by arthmoor which is similar in nature.

I look at the BOSS log and trails of cyrodiil got hundreds of dirty records

of course after you clean them all it's fine and dandy, but the jarring difference between A FEW dirty records in well known mods and HUNDREDS of dirty records in a less known made me giggle a little bit

» Fri May 04, 2012 10:04 am

One quick question, ive cleaned a few mods now, but in bain im now getting a orange background on the installer to which the mod i cleaned and it says there is a conflict, yet the conflict box is empty. Is this because i cleaned the esp, the installer still has the original and is recognising it is different? I dont suppose it'll hurt leaving it like that will it? I guess the only solution to that would be to repackage the mod with the cleaned esp instead of the original and reinstall?

Also what does non solid mean compared to a solid archive? as ones i repackage myself are non solid.

Yes, that's why the BAIN installers are showing orange, the archive contains the original ESP while the Data folder contains the cleaned version. Personally I would repackage the archive with the cleaned ESP (moving the original into a backup folder in the same archive so it doesn't get installed but can be retreived if needed) then reinstall the mod, however that's optional, you don't have to do that if you don't want to.

» Fri May 04, 2012 11:49 am

yeah my example was:

I've just built a very heavily modded setup, FCOM+++ with over 200 mods. most of them are well known stuff by trusted modders, which I added first.

during this stage of adding mods a few at a time, sometimes BOSS would warn me of say, 10 dirty records in a mod here and there.

now after I was done with the must have mods, I tried trails of cyrodiil, which is a good mod but of course you can't compare it to, say, new roads and bridges by arthmoor which is similar in nature.

I look at the BOSS log and trails of cyrodiil got hundreds of dirty records :biggrin:

of course after you clean them all it's fine and dandy, but the jarring difference between A FEW dirty records in well known mods and HUNDREDS of dirty records in a less known made me giggle a little bit :biggrin:

ahh i see, sorry i misunderstood you :smile:

Yes, that's why the BAIN installers are showing orange, the archive contains the original ESP while the Data folder contains the cleaned version. Personally I would repackage the archive with the cleaned ESP (moving the original into a backup folder in the same archive so it doesn't get installed but can be retreived if needed) then reinstall the mod, however that's optional, you don't have to do that if you don't want to.

Ah thank you i thought so. I will repackage them then reinstall as also if you uninstall that mod the cleaned esp wont be uninstalled which will cause problems if i dont notice. So another reason to repackage them. It is a time consuming job mind.

Dammit, the only nexus currently down (oblivion) is the one i want to access...

» Thu May 03, 2012 11:39 pm

This might seem like a stupid question but if BOSS doesnt report a mod to have dirty edits, does that mean its clean? I ask as im unsure how boss detects these dirty edits, if they're recorded manually then i guess the answer is no as recording over 20,000 mods is a bit of a undertaking.

» Fri May 04, 2012 9:37 am

because I take great pleasure in wasting people's time.

Apparently so, considering I just read your entire post...

» Fri May 04, 2012 10:07 am

This might seem like a stupid question but if BOSS doesnt report a mod to have dirty edits, does that mean its clean?

Not necessarily, no. If a mod doesn't have CRC data available, we don't have any way to know if it's clean or not.

» Fri May 04, 2012 2:17 am

This might seem like a stupid question but if BOSS doesnt report a mod to have dirty edits, does that mean its clean? I ask as im unsure how boss detects these dirty edits, if they're recorded manually then i guess the answer is no as recording over 20,000 mods is a bit of a undertaking.

Practically speaking, always clean mods unless specifically instructed not to. In this day and age with Wrye BASH even "intential" dirty edits will be overwritten by the BASH Patch. If you were to examine OOO's esm file you'll see that the only dirty edits are to leveled lists, which BASH merges anyway, making the edits basically redundant. MMM is somewhat different, where a dirty edit touches one os MMM's new records it will potentially overwrite one of the patch esp's further up the MMM load order.

Dirty edits aren't really the issue though, they are just bloat. What you MUST remove are the deleted references, as those will cause crashes when another, later, esp/esm tries to edit the record.