Great to hear! And thanks for tracking that down. We all appreciate the work you do for the community qith your tools, and passing these error messages back to you is just our way of helping you continually improve it.

I'll be monitoring intently for that 15.2 release ... tick, tock, tick, tock :drool:

Hello,

After using with great success Gecko for many years, I upgraded my system - alas, it now uses Vista... However, everything works fine (Oblivion, the CS, etc.), except for Gecko, which gives the following error message:

Exception during program initializationJava.io.IOException: Unable to locate Oblivion installation directoryTES4Gecko.Main.main(Main.java:145)

Note that the Oblivion installation folder is NOT the default one (one of the reasons being the CS problem with Vista) and that I tried both versions 14.5 and 15.1 of Gecko. The Java version I use is 1.6.

Cheers,
PKR.

Thanks for the great tool. I made great use of it in the earlier versions. About to give it a go once again (since reaching my cap of 254 mods)

I have a quick question. Would it be possible for this tool have an option to de-merge/reverse merge plugins. For example. If you merge 10 plugins which alter different objects in the world, then decide you wish to remove all changes made by one of the plugins you just merged, but keeping the other 9, is it possible for the tool to clean all edits from the merged plugin, using one as plugin as a reference?

Cause that would save a lot of manual editing or redoing of merged mods

Have you tried checking the registry setting for your Oblivion install path?

I posted a response about this just a few posts back:


:D

Question: If Gecko can't create silent mp3 files due to a "MemoryLimitExceeded", is this a small hint that my mod is beginning to get too big?

Background: Gecko just gave me a couple of grey hairs due to this error message. Luckily it went away after I deleted the index file gecko had created for the involved mods. After that it had created a lot of files (I'm closing in on 15.000 created files), with around 2 gig of RAM and more than enough of HDD space though. Gave me quite a headache. I even tried splitting the dialog into multiple files, without much success :blink:. Now I'm concerned if this may have been more than a random fluke, but the final message saying "alright, enough dialog. Begin working on something else!"

One issue with the Java Swing environment is that memory management bites. To the user, what this means is that repeating large operations like merging or displaying large mods w/o bringing Gecko down and restarting can give the infamous OutOfMemory error. One of the enhancements in v15.2 (just released; see OP) is that that handling has been improved, but still you're probably only good for 3 or 4 merges max with a large master like ST or TR before restarting becomes necessary. But that is much better than it used to be.

I was able to copy Oblivion.ESM to another name and generate over 120K MP3 & LIP files w/o incident, but that is probably the sort of thing you want to do immediately after a Gecko restart.

BTW:

TES4Gecko 15.2 is out!

Steve

Thanks for the new release!

Well, the problem for me was that restarting didn't help (not even that of the whole PC), which had kind of shocked me. I heavily rely on Gecko to create silent voice files .

That is odd. I consider the OB master to be the worst-case scenario for that. If you'd like to PM a location for your master, feel free.

Steve

Hey,

I'm in the process of merging the UOMP plugins directly into their corresponding official plugin. For this, I used the 'Merge to Master' feature in TES4Gecko v15.1 (I hadn't updated yet). I didn't ESMify the official plugin, I just clicked on 'All Files' so that ESPs would be recognized when searching for a master. Then I selected the corresponding UOMP plugin as the plugin to be injected into the master. Everything seems to have check out okay (from giving the finished product a glance on TES4Edit). I do have one question though, in both my new official plugin and the old UOMP plugin, Gecko placed an unused 'Static', with the EditorID 'TES4GeckoXXXXXXXX' (where X's were the FormID given to this unused 'Static'). Should I be worried about it this? Am I going about this process correctly? Does anyone else have any tips? Should I redo this entire thing using v15.2?

Sorry for the questions and thanks for any help,

Edit: Okay, ignore the whole thing about 'TES4GeckoXXXXXXXX'. It turns out that was actually something Kivan added to the Battlehorn Castle UOMP plugin for LOD purposes. So far, my process of merging the UOMP to their parent DLC is working out okay. So my only question now is, is what I'm doing okay? Meaning, has anyone tried this and gotten bad results?

Thanks, I was just going to ask the same question; probably something for the Read Me!

Didn't want to double post but found the tread too late, sorry.

So, I am about to merge for first time with Gecko. I chose 22 mods, gave them priority, clicked OK for merging and...
... got message: Error! Gecko-Oblivion index - access denied.

I am on vista if this matters.

thanks

How to Generate LIP files Using TES4Gecko 15.2 and TESCS 1.0

This is a brief run-through on the generation of an ESP that is compatible with CS 1.0 and has no ESM dependencies whatsoever. This allows for a quick load into CS 1.0, which is the only version that supports generation of LIPz. This requires some familiarity with Gecko:

• Displaying a plugin,
  
• Copying data to the Gecko clipboard,
  
• Using the Gecko right-click menu system.

The procedure:

• First, fire up Gecko, hit Display/Copy, and select the plugin for which LIPs are to be generated.
  
• Then select the entire groups for DIAL, NPC_ & RACE and copy to the clipboard. http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t60/sacarrow/GeckoLIPTutorial1.jpg
  
• Then select only the QUST IDs for which the dialogue is desired and copy to the clipboard. http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t60/sacarrow/GeckoLIPTutorial2.jpg
  
• If there are factions listed in the desired dialogue conditions, copy only those FACTs to the clipboard. http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t60/sacarrow/GeckoLIPTutorial3.jpg
  
• The go to the top of the clipboard window and right-click on Gecko Clipboard.esp. Select the only entry, Prepare for Lip Synch; you'll get a real frenzied http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t60/sacarrow/GeckoLIPTutorial4.jpg that can be safely ignored as the clipboard can only be saved to Gecko Clipboard.esp or a new file anyway.
  
• Hit Yes and the fun begins. Depending on the base plugin size, it may take a while.

What this procedure does:

• Winnows all dialogue INFOs not related to the included quests and also removes all QSTI references except for those included quests.
  
• Removes all QUST, DIAL & INFO conditions except those related to NPC, race or faction; the latter only for the factions included.
  
• Goes back through all plugins in the master list and gathers all NPCs referred to in the remaining dialogue conditions and all defined races; races are collected unconditionally.
  
• Clears the master list.

The resultant plugin is self-contained; any entity referred to should be in the plugin itself. The one known exception is the static used as an NPC in the condition for the Generic line labeled "ABOVE HERE ARE GREETINGS THAT CAN LINK TO OTHER GREETINGS", clearly to ensure that that response is never called.

The new plugin may now be saved using Save Clipboard to New. I recommend a name like <name of plugin or quest>LIP.esp. Them move your WAV files to their proper places under Data/Sound/Voice//, go into CS 1.0, and generate away. I have noticed the occasional warning related to either the bogus static mentioned above or the very occasional collision of form IDs due to the "flattening" of the plugin; those warnings may be safely ignored. Once complete, the LIP files may be moved to their real home. And don't forget to convert those WAVs to MP3s for Oblivion itself!

HTH,
Steve

Hey mate, excellent info, thank you!

Would you please also post how to install CS1.0 along with CS1.2? I used to have them both under my old computer (XP), but now I have a new rig (Vista 64) and my old brain doesn't remember how to install one without borking the other...

Cheers,
PKR.

Pasing along a request from xDarkAngel89x:

A feature I'd like to see for people to be able to create fps patches easier,

"Disable References" button. Select an esp. Then open a your text file that contains 1 line per RefID to be disabled.
Automatically override all refid's that do not have scripts/quests attatched into a new plugin. Then take all of those ref's, set their new z position to the current z - 40000, and set the Parent to player and "set enable state opposite of parent" to disable.


I created a macro to assist me in tes4edit and it still took over an hour to disable 100 objects. Which could have been done in about 3-4 minutes with a proper tool.

15.2 works well. Thank you to all the contributors over the years. At long last, this tool is what it should be. Some might say, what the cs should be. But let's not go there.
Thanks again,
fstony.

Hey wow! I got credit for reporting a bug, and I don't have the vaguest clue what it was at this point. :liplick:

It just so happens that my question is related, however, so go figure.

Are there any known or suspected cases where using the Clean Plugin feature breaks a mod? And if so, what should I look out for?

I ask for two reasons. One, I've seen occassional postings where people have alleged that TES4Gecko Clean Plugin broke their mod; and two, I thought I had run into the same issue myself, but it turned out that I just had to rebuild my Bashed patch after cleaning it. Go figure.

So anyway, before I go crazy and just start cleaning every mod I download, I thought I'd check to see if there are certain scenarios in which one should not clean a plugin.

And if this is an RTFM issue, just let me know. :facepalm:

Thanks!

-RMWChaos

Question: How save is the merging of plugins in the following situation?

There's an already big (and I mean really big) .esp file, around 6 MB, with tons of information and some plugins depending on it. FormIDs of it must not change therefore.

Now I want to build a new worldspace, and when the worldspace is finished, merge it into the above mentioned .esp.

If I set the priority of the merge files to [1] for the first and [2] for the second, will FormIDs of mod 1 stay the same?



You shouldn't believe anything you've been told. Judge yourself. In the end everyone is just stating opinions, though some are based on facts and knowledge, others on myths and misunderstandings.

So, keeping this in mind...:

1. Imho the tes4edit cleaning should be used. When it comes to cleaning they do the same thing (i.e. comparing the plugin with their master, then removing what's duplicated and therefore identical to master) - but tes4edit has a way better memory usage (e.g. when cleaning Integration: TSL. tes4gecko chokes on it, while tes4edit doesn't on my system), and tes4edit lists all changes and creates a backup file.
2. There exists something which I would call "identical to master by design" situations. There are a few in FCOM, there are a few in LAME. They're usually there to prevent problems with potentially earlier loaded mods which may cause bad mod interaction otherwise. Those shouldn't be cleaned out. Though they're extremely rare exceptions.
3. Cleaning does remove records that are identical to master. While there are some that claim that automatical cleaning has destroyed their mods, they never were able to show any kind of evidence. Evidence which would be very easy to produce. Furthermore those claims often came from people that made mods with a wide varietey of dirt, like e.g. issues associated with Recompile All Script or Generate All Pathgrids. If you ask me, those claims are likely defensive excuses to not learn how to use external tools - and until I see an actual evidence of a mod destroyed by cleaning it with tes4edit, I won't believe these claims. Note however that I say tes4edit - as mentioned tes4gecko can choke on some massive .esp files, and I don't think it's healthy if that happens during saving the plugin).

So in short: Use tes4edit's cleaning, if only because it's more memory efficient and automatically creates a backup file .

Well, according to this http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1038279&hl=tes4edit, it would appear that there are many mods that should not be cleaned for one reason or another. Man, it's just never easy.

WHOA! Edit! I think I get it now; just needed to sleep on it. Was missing one important step: changing the master list to point to the converted master before merging to master; then there is no problem with circular masters.

Ok, so if I have this right, and it appears to be working, these should be the correct steps for merging a plugin to its esp master:

1. Convert to Master to make the .esp a .esm
Ex. 'Knights.esp' to 'Knights.esm'

2. Edit the Master List of the plugin to be merged to point to the newly generated .esm
Ex. Edit Master List of 'Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp' to point from 'Knights.esp' to 'Knights.esm'

3. Merge to Master, select newly created .esm, then .esp to be merged
Ex. Select 'Knights.esm' and then 'Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp'

4. Convert to Plugin the .esm back to .esp (select yes to overwrite - but keep a backup of original!)
Ex. Convert 'Knights.esm' to 'Knights.esp'

5. Remove the converted .esm and the merged .esp
Ex. Remove 'Knights.esm' and 'Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp'

I think that should do it. Did I miss anything?

Thanks,

-RMWChaos



(Original Post)
Alright, I must be dense because I am just not getting it!

I've been all over the web reading tutorials on merging, mod de-isolation, Bash esmify and espify, merge to master, etc. However, I just can't figure out how to merge a plugin to another plugin that is it's master. The result I always get is a circular master reference.

Ex.
I want to merge 'Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp' with 'Knights.esp' in order to reduce my total number of plugins (to add more mods, of course). When I do this with Gecko, the resulting file has 'Knights.esp' as a master. Editing the master list results in warnings that there are references which will be deleted if I remove it.

If I esmify 'Knights.esp' first, then use Gecko merge to master, 'Knights.esp' is not listed despite the master bit flip - presumably because Gecko looks for the .esm extension rather than the master bit.

If I convert 'Knights.esp' to master, then merge to master, then convert to esp, the resulting 'Knights.esp' still has itself as a master.

So ... conundrum.

:banghead:

What am I doing wrong here?

Maybe I need to esmify 'Knights.esp' first, then open 'Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp' in CS, and merge it there, then espify? Going to try that next.

Thanks,

-RMWChaos

I never tested that scenario, but I am sure Steve Carrow can answer your question.

A suggestion.

• Convert the "big" esp of 6Mb to an esm and use the display/copy function and make a note of the high Form ID (top left of the Gecko display screen).
  
• Create the new WS esp and make it dependent on the esm.
  
• Merge (Merge to master) the "new WS esp" to the esm, use a managed merge and set the starting Form ID (from your note, ensuring no existing ID's will be altered) when finished convert the esm back to an esp.

I've found a bug in Gecko's merge function. It seems that targets set on XMarkerHeading objects are not retaining their proper formID indexes when being merged into a mod that causes an intermediate mod to be assinged as a master. Best explained by example.

For Open Cities, I have 4 merged plugins that combine the Cyrodiil cities into a single ESP, depending on which configuration is desired. Two of these involve the Bravil Blood & Mud plugin. There are three markers in Chorrol that target persistent hay bails so that the archers practicing there won't air mail shots off randomly behind their intended target. Gecko handles merging these records in just fine as long as Blood & Mud isn't involved, but as soon as either "Open Cities Full + Bravil Blood & Mud.esp" or "Open Cities Full + Bravil Blood & Mud + Leyawiin Reborn.esp" are thrown in, the target hay bails don't get properly updated and end up as unreferenced forms in the merged plugin, like so:



The forms should instead be indexed with 03, not 02, because in these two plugins 02 now belongs to Blood&Mud.esp because that is a required master for the Open Cities extension to Bravil B&M.

This should be relatively easy to duplicate and confirm with dummy mods.

1. Make a dummy esp, can have any old random whatever in it.

2a. Make one ESP that has the dummy as a parent, place an object. Place an XMarkerHeading that uses that object as a target.

2b. Make another ESP that has only oblivion.esm as a parent. Place an object, then place an XMarkerHeading that uses the object as a target.

3. Make another ESP, can have any old whatever random edits.

4a. Merge 1 with 2a. Load the results into Tes4Edit and run "check for errors" from the left pane by right clicking on the merged ESP.

4b. Merge 1 with 2b. Repeat the same "check for errors".

Note that 4a should report invalid references for the XTRG records, and 4b shouldn't report any errors provided nothing else went wrong in the CS.

I'm gonna need a step-by-step here. I barely understood the "ESP as a master" concept when it came up before and this sounds very similar. And no, I'm not going to try to reproduce the issue on simple mods 'til I can see it in the original. I'm assuming that the ESPs listed are available on TESNexus so I can get them. What I'll need are instructions as to the order the plugins were merged and also any custom plugins used.

My immediate suspicion is that this is a case of the "diamond problem" wherein the same object is modified differently in two plugins; upon merging, one set of changes are tossed. It's possible that the object merge keeps one reference, while the XMarker target keeps the other. But I'll need a more complete description of the steps that were taken.

Steve

Yes, this is in a released mod available for some time now: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16360
You'll also need this one: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12016

Reproducing it is fairly straightforward.

* Put all of the individual city ESP files into Data, and the Open Cities Resources.esm file.
* Put Blood&Mud.esp into Data.
* Make sure with whatever arrangements come up that Blood&Mud.esp is before the others in load order.
* Start Gecko, merge plugins.
* Set the following, all using "1" in the priority slot:

Open Cities Anvil.esp
Open Cities Bravil Blood&Mud.esp
Open Cities Bruma.esp
Open Cities Cheydinhal.esp
Open Cities Chorrol.esp
Open Cities Leyawiin.esp
Open Cities Skingrad.esp

This will cause Blood&Mud.esp to be added as a master to the MergedPlugin.esp file, which is done correctly. Load that merged plugin into TES4Edit and run the "check for errors" process on it. the XTRG records will be improperly merged and thus produce the error. If I manually change those from 02 to 03 for the index, everything fits.

To see it without the error introduced, merge Open Cities Bravil.esp instead of Open Cities Bravil Blood&Mud.esp. This will leave out Blood&Mud.esp and the marker target value will not be missing when you check for errors.

It's worth noting that Open Cities has been deliberately segmented to allow for flawless merges to avoid formID collisions and it has thus far worked except for this one issue which I wasn't even aware of until this morning.

Do you guys plan on releasing a version to work on 64 bit operating systems?