Wow, that was a tired mistake. Those are definitely not magic overhauls. I will move those now. Wow, guys, thanks for catching all of my brain shut down mistakes. As for UOMP and UOMPs. UOMP stand for Unofficial Oblivion Mod Patches, but when you refer to the UOMP for an individual DLC, the same term is used. It confuses me, but I will change everything to UOMP to be consistent, no problem.


Thanks for the feedback!
- Tomlong75210

Aggh- every time I think I got it all figured out I read something that makes me doubt myself.

This time with USIP.

I do have installed the Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp and as per the recent posts in the FCOM thread I installed OMOBS SI.esp ... so exactly which version of the USIP should I be using.

If you mean the _FCOM version that is also MOBS then that is confusing as the description states:
So how do I interpret that? Does that mean if I use that version of the USIP I do not need the Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests-SI only.esp?

The wording and brevity on the frans patches page is frustrating in its lack of in-depth information.

thanks

I just said that because the filename is UOMP as well.
Btw in the Stabilization -> Unofficial Official Patches there is a Updated Official DLC MOBS file. Isn't it outdated by the UOMP 1-5 MOBS file? I think the two mods try to do the same thing. Well, not, because the first is not UOMPs (:P) compatible without Bash, but this section is for the Unofficial Patches. I dont know which one is more useful, I'm currently in my PileUp10GigaOlbivionModsBeforePlay state.

I vote major update - erm, sorry

Joking asside - The more information/simple examples to encourage BAIN shy people the better, mentally its a bit of a step too far. I know its easy once you have taken the step but initially it seems too daunting, so much so I think that is the reason we see people still strongly advocating OBMM above BAIN, even though they are both equally useful and still warrant installing both, I think the fear is if enough people take up BAIN the people who cant get their heads around it initially will be left out in the cold which will never be the case really.

Anyway enough pontificating, I just think more step by steps such as those for producing BAINs' would be beneficial for a lot of people to ease them into its use.

You still need the version that Fran requires, "USIP_MOBS", since you have Fran's SI quest module. That version of the USIP plugin does not only contain stat changes. Otherwise, FCOM would not require it. I also think it is kind of odd that the only place to find the "regular" version of the USIP_MOBS plugin is on the Frans patches page. Maybe Corepc can do something about that. I'll ask later.



That is true, it is known as "UOMP". You can use the Updated Official DLC MOBS plugins and import the stats. Using either is fine. I will put notes about this on that page though, thanks.



Okay, I guess this means that the BAIN guide will have to be kept around. The whole thing needs to be rewritten with the site revamp though.


Edit: typo

Forgot to mention I saw this a few days ago - Somewhere on your site you have noted that the BAIN installers go in a folder located in Oblivion\Oblivion Mods\ which is wrong because the default location has \Oblivion mods\ at the same folder level as \Oblivion\
I think probably better would be more detailed ie \bethesda softworks\oblivion mods\bash installers\ <---- put your BAIN friendly zips/rars/7zips in here (unless you altered Wrye bash path for this folder).

Yeah but what of those with non-default location installs?

Mine is on such a drive and Oblivion directory is on the same level as Oblivion Mods directory created by Wrye Bash.

I think you mean where a user has chosen not to install to the default....

C:\program files\bethesda softworks\ but used say D:\ instead? - so just expand the default location

C:\program files\bethesda softworks\oblivion mods\bash installers\ <---- put your BAIN friendly zips/rars/7zips in here (unless you altered Wrye bash path for this folder, or did not use the standard Oblivion installation location)

Anyone with the knowledge enough to realise the advantages of using a different partition/drive at installation time and avoid using their system partition (and UAC problems by avoiding the default \program files\) should know enough to change that path accordingly.

I think even new mod users rapidly start using the grey matter to learn things about their system they probably never knew before, most mod users are a bit more savvy than your average facebook fodder who consider themselves geeks ( insulting to geeks I think apologies if you were eating)

Reference the above its here - http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/installmods/baininstallation

>>notes: Unless you changed the sOblivionMods file path in the bash.ini, the Bash Installers folder is in \Oblivion\Oblivion Mods\

I thought I had left that somewhere. I was reminded of that as I changed the Bash config instructions on the Wrye Bash page. Thank you for pointing that out.

I think (and this is my humble uniformed (probably wrong) opinion) that modding oblivion (not the creation of, just using them) can be a scary place to the vanilla user who has no experience of modding in other games (though I'm finding my feet thanks to the wealth of information and experience provided by more advanced users). From what I've read Wrye Bash has many advantages over OBMM but OBMM seems easier to get to grips with. Most of the mod install guides (well the ones where people actually sound like they know what they are talking about) seem to be very BAIN orientated.

I think it would be great if you guys could put together an OBMM guide for the beginner (while stressing the advantages of Wrye Bash with a view to getting the beginner going with OBMM and letting them hop over to Wrye Bash when they are more comfortable). Perhaps with youtube vids or slide show detailing the average install and perhaps other popular set-ups (in fact this approach for Wrye Bash would be great!).

As a non-techy type (yes, a dumb***!). I love instant gratification! Things that look complex from the outset have me running for the hills. I know I'm a lazy bugger. As I'm finding out the reward is well worth the effort.

Feel free to tell me to **** off. I'm sure you guys have your hands full writing scripts, making mods and what not. (not to mention days jobs etc.)

So basically what I'm getting at is a dummies guide. Sorry if anything I've stated is wrong but I'm new the Oblivion mod scene.

Thanks for your hard work (mods & tools) & support (forums & guides) which you give freely to end user's such as myself.

Thank you for the feedback. I can put an OBMM guide together as well. However, have you read the Oblivion Mod Manager and OMOD Installation pages? It seems to me that those cover most of the OBMM specific questions, alongside the main site pages. I do not want to stress the advantages of BAIN on pages intended for OBMM users. It can be distracting and start users that are not actually ready onto a path of major frustration. Any such bias on the site in the general pages (that are not introducing the different installation method options) should not preference an installation type. Comments about how BAIN might be useful for users of multiple cosmetic mods are fine, but, otherwise, the site should be user-friendly for all installation methods. I will take much more care with that in the future.


Thanks again for the input!
- Tomlong75210

I haven't read them to my shame! geez digitally hanging with you guys is making me realize how bloody lazy I am! Sorry!

Dont put yourself down, for anyone starting out with Oblivion its a bit of a daunting complex subject, especially if you have not had any previous Elder Scrolls experience. And there are so many distractions/paths to follow getting lost along the way happens a lot, its like being a kid in a local corner sweet shop "so many choices O_o", a by-product of which makes it a mod conflict minefield. Best rule of thumb - One at a time, read the readmes - you may get a hint that opens up a level of understanding which is the key to solving a lot of problems - Patience required - Installing a lot of mods in one go until you are experienced with them and their requirements is more than likely going to lead to a very complicated problem that you (or anyone else who doesnt know what you did to cause the mess) cant un-tangle and you will have to go for a clean install again ( when you have done it a few times you kind of get a self imposed discipline anyway because you dont want to go through that lot again )

Good luck with your choices.


@ Tomlong

Another note - But first O_o, you have done a lot of re-organising in a short space of time. Lords help us when you aren't doing this remotely.

On this following page....
http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/installmods/baininstallation

In the Related pages - Could you also link to...
http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/walkthroughs/baininstallguide/convert

If you have already done it or it doesn't tie in with your overall plan just ignore me, but following up on what someone else said about one branch expanding to others step by step fashion and not flooding the user experience with information overload I think that link would be handy there.

You are following my train of though quite well, actually. I already have a page outside of that guide that covers similar information and is already linked there.

Example BAIN Conversions - http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/installmods/baininstallation/bainconversions <-- I just have not gotten around to updating it with the rest of those. I linked the relevant FCOM step here, and I should link the page you pointed out as well. Thank you for reminding me.


The remote isolation has ended, but I have been too caught up catching up on sleep, troubleshooting (online and at home now) to start moving on the site yet. I have actually written up the initial revamp plan, but now I am waiting for the "right" time to create the thread about it. I probably just need to go ahead and do it, but I want to put it up while a lot of users are here. I was thinking of creating the thread on Friday or Saturday; however, traffic was pretty heavy yesterday afternoon as well. If you have any recommendations about this, by all means, inform me. If I get sidetracked with a bunch of troubleshooting cases, this definitely will not happen until the weekend.

One more before I go setting up dual booting the new release of Linux Mint

On this page http://sites.google.com/site/oblivionpoinfo/walkthroughs/baininstallguide/convert

Down near the bottom in the Cosmetics department, not sure if these fit there, you do mention them somewhere else on site but they are an expansion to Roberts v5 similar to Rough leather shoes fix for female so logically they need a 'needs work' 'simple BAIN already' appended aswell in that section...

The average body to update v5 and the two Stock Clothing and armour for average (posting links to save you finding where you put them...)
http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=27909
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=20328
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=21055

And, Kudos - lots of, for the amount of dedication you have applied to this, its shaping up to be a marvellous one-stop-shop guide collated from the nether regions of the oblivion communities

Yup, I am planning to do those as well. Actually, I am going to start trying out this BCF thing and maybe even get a Nexus page on which I'll upload BCFs and OMOD scripts (and instructions) for various popular finalized mods. For Robert's mod, I am going to ask AlienSlof about uploading a repackaged pack that is BAIN-Ready and OMOD-Ready, but that is for later....


Edit: Remember, I have only just decided to keep that guide around. It is much outdated (after only a few months, haha) which is why a number of pages in the guide do not reflect the changes to the main site pages (i.e., Downloading Mods, on which you will find links to those Robert expansions.)

Could you tell me which of these packages (from your PList) you have active?

261 - QTP3R.7z (F410216B)
262 - Qarl's Texture Pack 3 R Patch.7z (CABF0638)
263 - Optimized QTP3 Meshes - Fixed-26756.7z (8A16159E)
264 - Qarl's Texture Pack Optimized Meshes-23178.7z (F37715BD)
265 - QTP - Better Tiling Textures-6996.7z (4721AEEE)
512 - Bomret's Detailed Normal Maps (Vanilla)-18430.7z (93950EE6)
513 - Bomret's Texture Pack - Shivering Isles.7z (4C957AC7)
539 - BTQ Landscape LODs-7212.7z (8FD0B82F)
577 - Koldorn's LOD Noise Replacer-9952.7z (F15C44C4)
580 - Landscape LOD Normal Map Fix-2446.rar (64A1764E)
581 - Landscape LOD Textures by Xerus-17300.7z (A7ACC8C6)
585 - PK - LandscapeLOD Normals-27046.7z (DCAE4A52)
586 - Qarl's LOD Smaller Uncompressed Normal Maps-26911.7z (012B30AD)
590 - Reduced LOD - BTQ 512.7z-11441.7z (B9ABA154)
591 - Reduced LOD - QN512.7z-11441.7z (51B3F715)
597 - Shaja - Landscape LOD Textures (Border Regions)-2210.7z (8E19C19B)
598 - Shaja - Landscape LOD Textures-2182.zip (D0A94F6B)

Thanks

Sure. It will take a couple minutes for BAIN to initialize though, haha...


Edit: From the top...

261 - I do not have QTP3 installed at the moment, but I intend to do that later. This will be active, but I only have ATP installed as the main world textures replacer.
262 - Activate this if you activate 261.
263 - ""
264 - This is the pack that contains all of those extra meshes. Do not use this. I will remove it from my package list later.
265 - I do not think this mod is necessary, but I am checking the conflict report now.
512 - Active
513 - Active (and should be installed before Detailed Terrain)
539 - Active (This is the original with the 2048x2048 textures.)
577 - Active (medium)
580 - Not active (but could be, as it covers more distant normals than certain other packs)
581 - Not active (but will be. I am really looking forward to trying this. It completely overwrites 580, as would other full distant normal map and textures replacers would.)
585 - Not active (and covers the same files as #586, which is less than what is covered by #580)
586 - ""
590 - Not active (This is the 512x512 version of BTQ's textures, #539. I prefer the visuals with the 2048x2048 even over the 4096x4096 files)
591 - Active (The smaller normals have less of that checkered affect when shadows are cast over distant landscapes. It really bothers me, and I plan to try the alternatives that are supposed to imporve upon this, #585 and #586. It covers the same data files as well.)
597 - Not Active (but I want to try Shaja's this summer. I just realized I do not have any border texture replacers installed. I used to have one installed. This might be it actually, haha...)
598 - ""

I need to look at the border region replacer options. How did I miss that...

>> notes: 1) All of my active packages would be active if I were still using QTP3, a matter of personal preference. 2) Separate the DT shader edits into a separate archive, OMOD it, and install it through OBMM. The rest of the data files are still better off installed through BAIN.

Erm its me.....again, do i need OMOD conversion data for Unofficial Oblivion Patch Supplemental v3.2.7 or can i just pack it up into an OMOD with no script?

Cheers tomlong

It is a simple package. There are not special steps required. I am sure that that is written in the guide, directly. If it is not, let me know.

265 - QTP - Better Tiling Textures-6996.7z (4721AEEE): The readme says "this package is and add-on for Qarl-texture pack 2". So I figured your weren't using it.
539 + BTQ Landscape LODs-7212.7z (8FD0B82F): The readme says "The package is design to fit with Better tiling textures for Qarl (ID=6996). Howewer, it can be used as a stand-alone replacement." So I wasn't sure how it would work with QTP3.
Thanks for supplying the installed status for me.

265 - I think that that mod was incorporated with the upgrade to QTP3, so I probably should get rid of that.
539 - This is a stand-alone replacer, and as (I think) those textures were included, this fits QTP3 just fine. All you have to do is look at TOTO. These mods are fine to use with QTP3.

*Reminders* (brain is currently dying)
- Robert Male v4 Muscular Stock replacers by Senchan
- Robert Male v4 Average Stock replacers by TLBTLBTLB
- more Robert stuff
- elaborate on MMM general spawn rate plugin choices in FCOM guide, BAIN step
- anolyze Fran packaging steps in all guides
- generalize patching Ren's mod for compatibility with Robert's mod for all cosmetic mods
- lots of related pages updates
- reorganize INI tweaks
- want to apologize for the HORRIBLE formatting on Google Sites, ugh...
- post the proposed format of the new site
- add Darker Nights, Darker Dungeons and something else to the popular outdated mods page
- add installation/download notes to the popular outdated mods page
- add special instructions or notes for users that use the Bash installer (this might already be there, but double check...)
- remind users about setting BSA redirection in other parts of the setup process
- add "in sequential order" or some other explicit comment to aesthetics guide
- add "BOOM!" sound problem and fix
- add CTD on fast travel problem and fix (although the fix is still slightly unclear)
- add cosmetic mod problems: bald characters, black eyes, annoying dark elf in prison cell not talking, cannot change between hairs and/or eyes, mismatched textures, body seams (no real solution)
- add land misalignment (not real) problem with a screen shot
- screen shots...
- update Enhanced Vegetation, remove Better Tiling Qarl from BAIN list, update BAIN list...

Hi,

I looked through your site (really an extensive effort!) I looked at the Popular Outdated Mods list and thought about doing a bit of shameless self-promotion by mentioning Real Sleep Extended. Now I don't know you're exact criteria for putting anything there (Map Marker Overhaul certainly outdates Landmarks With Wells, but does so much more that it may not be natural to list it there), but I think it is fair to list Real Sleep Extended as a replacer for Real Sleep, Real Sleep Updated, and probably Bedrolls (including aaaBorsBedrolls v1.4).

RSE's many new features aside, it fixes the known bug in RS & RSU that makes the attributes start to fly away when the player becomes a Vampire. It also improves upon the other bedroll mods by being the only that is compatible with See You Sleep, and the only which lets you place multiple bedrolls without creating savegame bloat, lets you pick up bedrolls while enemies are nearby or where the beggars place out new bedrolls after some time.