thats debatable.

the fact of the matter is you're all making it sound like or possibly actually believe theres an in-game cash shop. which is just false.

there is the shop on the website for the game, and an account store on the website. nothing more.

It's a shop that gives you in-game items. That's a cash shop for the game, regardless of where the button for it is located.

There will be a cash shop for "commodities" (name changes, minions, stuff...)

Confirmed by the DEVs, and there is no reason to hide it.

Keep in mind most pay to play MMOs do have a cash shop nowaday.

WoW does, FFXIV does too (sort of).

Its CE and Pre-Order Bonus. EVERY single MMO does the same thing. That has nothing to do with a cash shop...it just doesn't.

So, is there a cash shop or not?

They may not have an actual cash shop at launch, but if their "Imperial Edition/Collector's Edition" shenanigans turn out to be lucrative it probably won't be long before they decide on the addition of a cash shop being a good idea.

I really want to play TESO for it's gameplay, I really want(ed) it to be a succes, but Zenimax tries really hard to discourage me to want to purchase their game...

Yes

To clarify:

"There won't be anything like bonus points, but we'll have a shop to buy kind of fun stuff and services too, like name changes and things like that," Firor said in an interview with German site Buffed. "But it's not part of the core game. Anything in the core game is included in the subscription."

and you can bet you last septim that there will also be "ingame announcements' in the chat box every so often to Remind people of the cash shop items that are available for purchase. this was something allways got my blood boiling in anger, but i have become accustomed to it now just like we are becoming accustomed to the "somewhat hidden cash shop / not cash shop"

I bet there wont be anything like that.

And im sure im gonna win the bet too

What the hell am I paying for with subscription and game box.

The right to login only?

Seriously.....It's starting to feel a lot like this.

Whats preventing you from playing exactly?

Not being an imperial or not having a white horse?

What I meant is that they keep adding "cosmetic" stuff as purchasble.

And yes, why should I pay 20€ to be able to play that specific race?

they are in the game are they not? Am I paying the game? Am I paying a monthly sub? Then why isn't the INGAME fully available to the "normal" customer?

As i've already said, next thing will be a area of new dungeons and what not, but hey its "cosmetic" since its just new pixels after all......

Just a friendly reminder folks! dont forget to pick up your additional pixels and skins youll need for the upcoming expansion set to be ready for download this Friday!

Hah, funny how a race that's been in the last three single player games isn't a part of the core game. Well.. who knows, one day we might be able to pay for playing as a Daedra.
You think it goes against the lore? Who cares, not being able to play as an Imperial is also against common sense aswell, but that doesn't matter.
Is it taking it too far? Naah, a few years ago a cash shop and paygates was considered something bad, nowdays people are used to it, so they'll get used to seeing Daedra's running around eventually too.
You don't like it? Don't play it. Bah... the boiling frog syndrome... -.-

Like I've said before and I'll say it again: The only way they can get away with this is to blame it on ambiguity. Doesn't change the fact that nothing they say can be taken for granted from this point onwards.

Because thats how they are selling their product.

Like it or not.

While what you say is TRUE i challenge you to become a game developer and not do exactly the same.

Ah, yes you gotta survive on the market too.

So basically they cut a piece of the game to sell off for higher price and separated.

Like cutting the heads of the "bread" and selling them separately, since hey, they promised a bread, so there you go, but if you want the full bread you gotta pay extra for it.

Yes its called marketing. Mind you i dont like it either.

You can also buy from a different baker.

Really, your answer is a different game?

So, we're not allowed to voice our unhappiness since the answer will be, "take it or leave it"?

Marketing is advertising your product, saying you're selling apples, and then they sell you seeds, since "take or leave it, if u plant them you do eventually get apples", is not.

When did i say you are not allowed to voice your unhappiness?

But i am just as allowed as you are to voice my disagreement.

But no, you cant complain forever, at some point you will have to chose: do i still buy this product? And most of you will. So i wonder whats the point of complaining so loudly.

OP I could not agree with you more. Money can buy you advantages in this game.

Would've been fine and dandy as long they wouldn't have been two faced about it. You don't see me raging at other game developers for their CE's, cash shops, paywall/paygates.
You know how a market works? You make something consumers wants to buy. If it's good enough people will buy it. And that's the change from us, as consumers, that has changed along the years. We've grown an acceptence to this behavior. And people accepting their marketing model is also the people responsible for it to continue.
A company doesn't only need to survive, it wants to grow to make even More money for the suits. That's capitalism 101. And if they can take advantage of you, then they will. I've seen it myself, I've experienced it first hand how people are being treated poorly just to make the company a few extra bucks, and if the employee isn't accepting it then they are being replaced.
Yes, I've been replaced. I got fired myself not too long ago because I didn't take their BS. So I very much would accept the challange, because I have something a lot of people don't have these days and that's inegrity and morale, and that's without stepping on other peoples toes.

When it fails and the devs are looking for why instead of cherry picking their feedback and/or just looking at pre-release sales.

Because people want to voice their concern and there really is not better option than posting in this specific forum.

Because ... the internet.

Staying silent will get us nowhere thats for sure.

But to be honest i've found out barely 3 days ago, so yea, im extremely disgruntled at what zenimax promised when the game was planned to what we have on hands now.

And I would love a straight answer from them, what exactly do I buy with sub+game box, hiding stuff then adding them at will for extra money is just plain wrong I suppose.

No im not saying free game changing expansions, where work is clearly done, but this was already planned, they simply "oops oh yea forgot to mention there is this ingame too if you pay extra".

What I am afraid is not what my money buys now, is what will there be in the future. Will I have to keep paying extra to stay on par with the rest or not? Because this is the road I envision they are heading towards, and would love them to say something about that specifically, to which so far they've been either contradicting themselves or playing the wording game where every word they spit out can mean 100 different things.

Thats brave. And i really mean it.

For the same reason i ended up working alone. Because my work matters (professional gardenere here).

But Zenimax is a big company, and you really cant expect the same kind of moral integrity from them.

While Matt Firor is a nice guy (and as a daoc player you will never convince me otherwise) he is not the one selling the game.