Also, and this proves my point, you came in to not really learn about the game but to claim facts which you don't have, and neither do your "friends."

You say you are just here to state that if there is no end game it will fail. Why not come into a forum asking questions such as "What is end game looking like, have they discussed it much?" "What types of things are they planning for max level?" etc etc etc.

You come in the way you did and no wonder you are not liked and called a troll. You claim facts that are not there and then claim there is no endgame based on non existant facts. boy no wonder it has been a rough thread for you.

Aeno

I played eq, only played wow for the first month and went back to eq for a bit.

The way to not be like wow is to not make a game with no learning curve, not quest leveled, a persistent non instanced world, no hot bars or skill trees, don't be casual and accessible to those with an 5 min attention span, have group content with a dynamic world and freedom.

OMG OMG OMG

This must be something the devs have no clue about, ffs, ESO WILL FAIL !

.. wait wait wait what ?

really if you dont want to pay then dont play simple as that. and pls keep world of warcraft away as far as you can from TESO , wow is dying and really who even bothers to play that anymore. TESO is still new and dont start to judge a game that hasnt even been released yet and im sure they are working to make end gaming experience more fun and epic than other mmos.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be hardcoe players. There will always be. But if they choose to burn through the content as fast as they can, then they have no reason to complain about insufficient content. After all, it probably takes the developers at least 10 times the amount of time and effort to design the dungeon that they burned through in a few hours.

So basically your argument is.... Oh what is your argument?

Good job at putting words in my mouth though,logic fail!!!

Ironically, that's exactly what they're asking for: that ESO go even further towards being "just another MMO."

And UO had already taken the course south well ahead of them... not really sure what happened with EQ2 though. "Same thing, worse delivery" maybe?

But yes. My worst fear (regarding ESO at least) is that ZOS will jump ship and contort itself out of shape trying to appease the people who are too busy looking at what it's not to appreciate what it is.

Unfortunately, rom what I can tell both you and the OP is asking for it to do exactly that before it even launches...

City of Heroes never grabbed me in the "omg can't wait to get back" way, but I am saddened by it's passing. It was always one of those games I thought about going back to but never quite did.

Apparently there's a kickstarter going for a team trying to rebuild the spirit of CoH. I wish them well.

Of course. Were both reasonable and agree on that. What I'm saying is hat when those players leave if endgame isn't engaging right out of the gate, will the suits at Zeni max understand that or will they see the loss of subs and knee jerk?

That kind of condescending attitude will just get you reported, sooner or later.

Ahhh for that, I do not know. I'm just a consumer who's waiting to play the game

But what I know is if ESO doesn't manage to keep the customers happy, then there are other games coming out later on which will demand our time too. Destiny, for example. So as you can see, I'm pretty neutral about ESO. It's just a MMO that I'm going to play, and I am no really devoted fan nor a hater.

I see where he's coming from though, most of the posters here aren't posting to have a conversation but to flame anyone who questions game mechanics or have an opinion. Were all supposedly advlts here, and should act like it instead of resorting to flames or logical fallacies.

Without expansions, nothing will keep the game alive.

Many will roll alts while waiting for end-game content expansions, but they won't wait forever. As long as ZOS is timely with updates of good quality content across the board, not just end-game, ESO will survive.

My argument is that you and your buttbuddy here are arguing stupid points - no1 knows what endgame is like because we cant even get CLOSE to it.
Why bring up (and defend) these supposed 'facts' when they are clear lies? Why state "WoW did it better" when WoW has been out for YEARS, and the game you compare it to isn't even out yet? Seems really dumb and pointless. So rather than let you both spread hate and worry to the people that will take it seriously, I will defend it
(Guess what, same thing happened the moment NDA was lifted)

So why discuss end-game PvE at all?
Well, EITHER;
1) To ask for info on it
2) To say "oh boy I hope this happens"
3) To troll with some 'facts' which are 100% false because no1 has done all end-game stuff yet

(guess which you and the OP are doing, hint; it's the third option)

because its being made by one of the main PVP developers in the pvp world?

I don't get why that is a bad thing for so many people. Nothing wrong with "just another MMO" in my book

Have these type of topics ever accomplished anything but incite a flame fest? Pointing out something as obvious "its highly important MMOs have a strong endgame" in such a manner was just going to produce.... this.

True enough.

/close thread

When "most (current) mmo players" are already addicted to WoW, trying to break them off WoW is a bit of a fool's quest. Better to look at "who can we convert to the MMO" and "who's not happy with what WoW offers" instead.

Trouble is, there's a tonne of people offering "WoW, only better!" and not quite delivering. Also a tonne of people offering "Not WoW, we promise" and then trying to pass off an alpha as a release. Which confuses the hell out of people as to what is actually a viable entry into the feild.

In going to the hybrid 'action/rpg' model, ESO is at least a step ahead of Eve mechanically speaking. (Also a step ahead of Planetside IMO, but that's personal bias.) It has the potential to be an "easy to learn, hard to master" game, whereas EvE is more the "brutal start, but pure gravy if you can pass that" kind of game. But, as I said, I won't really *know* if it lives up to the potential until I've actually explored it. Which will take longer than the 12 hours I managed to put in last beta. (Stupid work schedule. OTOH, they were 12 consecutive hours, which is something literally no other game than Eve has pulled off from me. Even if ESO's endgame is dull as dirt, it'll still stand out in my mind for that.)

Of course, in doing *all* of that you consign yourself to being a niche game like EVE. So to succeed at that approach, have a realistic idea of what kind of numbers you're going to pull over the first year and budget accordingly. The true reason EVE is a well-known "Excpetion to the Rule" while Darkfall is just... sort of out there if you look for it, is because CCP knew what they were getting into. (Or at least, that's my theory.)

Be interesting to see how Pantheon does, if it gets made, for those suffering from EQ nostalgia.

Gods, I hope not.

Otherwise, their names will fall to the same level of infamy as that of Smedley.

Having an opinion is fine. But when someone points out that opinion is based on something that is not true, one should back down and not continue to push the point in spite of the evidence.

Doomsaying that ESO will fail because there is no endgame despite no one knowing whether there is an endgame or not, and then calling those who oppose you 'children'? That's not 'acting like an advlt' in my book.

Funny statement from one (OP) who don't even has access to the beta?

The OP topic does not make sense a lot as I think it is ZOS big business to think how keep players playing, so obvious advice will not help.

But there is problem how to keep people playing.

Assume one game is focused on PvE end-game only. So it would mean endless race for end-game gear. It would got quickly feeling that once end-game gear is gained it has to be quickly replaced by new end game content.

So if game focuses too much on hardcoe players they will get end-game gear in one week (probably by farming one top level instance) and next week game must provide new instance with new end-game gear to be farmed. Unfortunately for most of the players if will mean nothing.

So the problem will always be the same - game can not be focused too much on end-game because it will work only for small group of hardcoe players.

In my opinion game must be build on high level triada: top level instances - PvP - character builds. You actually then got GW2 - I liked GW2 but it had been build in some way that made world feeling empty and it did not keep people playing.

The pure PvE game also is hardly possible to survive because PvP is considered as final test for your skills, PvE grind is fine but only playing against IQ makes challenge.

Why are so many people on this boards so against giving end game raiders what they want? No offense, but seeing as how illogical that is, I can't help but think it's just a really bad case of fan-boy-ism.

If the tables were turned, and the masses were crying out for more engaging end game PvP content, the PvE players would be here crying about how PvE is the focus and Zeni doesn't need to focus on PvP.

/shrug

I also played all the games you listed, and many other mmos, and don't feel the same way as you and the "many people" you know.

The endgame that I and so many others are looking forward to is Alliance vs. Alliance (AvA) - pvp siege warfare.

Much like DAOC, I plan to spend months and months engaging in this "endgame" content, among other things.

I feel like I just got stupid from even opening this thread...