I think people were looking for a new home with high expectations but the reality sunk in that this is just another MMO.

Ehm... There are exactly two snippets about adventure zones that i am aware of: 1, that they exist, and 2, a dev mentioning that as a raider himself, he was satisfied with them.

How exactly makes that adventure zones appear 'very underwhelming' to anyone is beyond me.

Yeah. I'm honestly surprised and a little put off at how hostile people are being over me simply stating my opinion. People are cursing, swearing, literally calling me names like children.

I didn't say ESO is going to fail. I said something that might make it fail if they don't deliver. Which is..true? I don't know. Way too many hostile kids in here.

I think he means he's waiting for his mother to buy it for him for Christmas....

No the irritation comes in when people come onto the board and right off the bat make a thread either to start a negative vibeor post about what they clearly know nothing about. how many times have people responded with "They are limited to the first 15 or so levels so they can't know what endgame is about," and he continually ignores it saying his friends, not even him, are saying their is no endgame. They are level capped and haven't experienced endgame..period...end of story.

Aeno

Listen. When those hardcoe nerds burned through the content there wasn't another ship to jump to unless they went back to eq or UO. Eq had started heading south by then.

Now when those players unsub and go back to wow is Zeni going to flip and do something irrational to the business model you might not like?

There are always going to be those players who have level pwnzcitis syndrom. So what. People have burned through WOW, DDO, NWO, GW2, etc etc etc etc. This game is a month release and there seems to be a pretty nervous snippit of the gaming society hell bent on prophesying it's doom. Amusing actually.

Can we keep this rational and on topic?

I'll admit, I'd rather have doomporm than goreporm. (AKA any movie made by Rob Zombie. Love his music, hate his cinema.)

Yes?

I was a addressing a general argument which suggested that neither model can survive. Not the specific question of whether or not ESO's compromise position could.

Also, while Eve's learning curve is http://www.flickr.com/photos/23579228@N04/2335016192/ I'm not yet convinced that it's actual *peak* is higher than ESO's, and won't be until I've had a chance to explore the whole of the game. (And bear in mind, I am a major Eve fangirl and would still be playing the hell out of it right now if I could.)

Someone else said, but I'll repeat:
NDA was only lifted for the group that hasn't actually seen the PvE endgame yet. OTOH, we have tasted the PvP endgame and even most of the earlier naysayers have said "omfg this changes *EVERYTHING*."

Only holdouts being the "where's my damn arena already" crowd. But they're not exaclty looking for PvE

That 'one guy' is someone who sets records for 'fastest time to cap,' and holds numerous server-first accomplishments. His experience is about as far from the average player's as that of Wayne Gretzky's career is from the average amateur beer-league hockey player.

No you didn't
What you are doing is basically a version of schrodingers cat.

You are claiming - on the one side - that "there IS no engaging, end-game PvE content!"
Which is a definitive claim, you are making a STATEMENT (which are usually made up of facts)

The truth is, you have ZERO facts to back your argument up

It's the problem of the cat because, no1 knows whether or not the end-game content is good yet, because;
1) the game is not out yet
2) those who are playing end-game stuff can't comment because it's under NDA
3) the end-game content planned for release ISN'T EVEN AVAILABLE YET.

You HAVE to see how you have ZERO knowledge of the claims your making.
That's why everyone thinks you are a troll (which you are)

I agree with the OP. If they are betting the whole game on Cyrodiil and people subscribing just for AvAvA, they are going to face plant. HARD. If not, they REALLY need to do some press on the Adventure Zones. I cannot emphasize this enough.

Having said that, I have seen patch notes from recently anf it does look like they are taking the game in the right direction. Ive already bought the game for my wife and I, whether or not they get another penny from us depends on the PvE content they have established for end game. I could go back to GW2 and play WvWvW for absolutely free if I wanted to.

Seeing this makes me miss City of Heroes, again. The best game for alt-crazy people like me. And an endgame that I thought was actually fun. Unlike WoW and Guild Wars 2 and SWTOR where when I finally got to max I was bored silly. WoW and GW2 had no reason for me to really roll alts and SWTOR's story kept me making new characters for a while until I got a bit tired of it thanks to friends leaving.

Either way, As long as the game is good at keeping me engaged, who cares? The main attraction to me is RP. If you can get me a community that cares, is helpful and fun to play with doesn't matter if the game-itself- is sub-par... Just my opinion.

Hopefully they go back to WOW before they ruin the game for the rest of us, like they did with almost every other game.

Because they're going to do that anyway, no matter what ZOS tries to do.

Seriously, the worst thing a game can do is [censored]-slap it's supporters trying to appease it's nay-sayers. It's far better to resolve yourself to being a niche-game than to tread the path of SWG.

That's coz you're not listening to those who are talking to you. There is more than enough PVE content for the average gamer. You think you're a hardcoe badass PVE raider who can complete the story and 50+ and 50++ content in 2 minutes and 16 seconds? That's your own damn fault for rushing through it, and no developers in the world can churn out content faster than you can clear it. So stop saying there's no end game PVE content. Sorry bud, but you're talking a lot of nonsense here. Some of the worst nonsense I've seen on this forum.

My main concern is that it seems like Zenimax is betting the entire game revolving around end game PvP, something most MMO players do not like. That's an issue.

I hope there is engaging end game content, and I have heard that there is not.

Better, children?

Zenimax knowes that, atleast i hope, but thats nothing new, the moment we are in Endgame and there is nothing to do, the game will fail y.

You do realize no one really knows about end game right? For all you know there is. You seem to be avoiding that fact

I don't see eso rivaling eves complexity and challenge, but I would be pleasantly surprised.

Maybe not the average casual player, but I'd say it's a good book mark for all those guys who level In sleeping rotations and what not. I'm just saying end game needs to be engaging from week one post release.

So...your argument is basically that...WoW was [censored] for those hardcoe nerds when it released because it had not-enough end-game content to satisfy them for years on end...but they had no other games to play so they begrudgingly stuck with it?

And what...it consistently updated over the years (thanks in part to the subscription model) and now has lots of end-game content?

And you think that....SOMEHOW when ESO plans on taking the same route that...WoW is amazing and ESO is doomed to fail?

Gfg buddy, this 'logic' is hilarious.

you do know that wow was not the first mmorpg ever right?

so the only way to not be a wow clone is to have no quests, no abilities, no learning curve, no world, no elves, etc etc etc i dont really see there being any game left...

See, now if you just explained it like this in the first place, maybe people wouldn't have tried to curb-stomp you. And your apology is accepted.

And what would you define as "engaging end game content"? Please enlighten us. And if you're thinking of raids then please go back to WoW.

Oh boy...so you heard about endgame content from people who haven't experienced it because they have been level capped.

You know I heard about a book from a group of people that didn't read it ...I think the book svcks end of story.

Aeno

Come on, lots of games will start off with really hard PvE content for hose hardcoe guys to spend months figuring out and devising plans for with [censored] loot %. That's how they keep them. Then your average gamer sees those hardcoe guys decked out in badass [censored] and think [censored] I wanna that. It's healthy for a MMO to have hardcoe dedicated player base, it keeps the casuals around and fives average players a chance to complete PvE.

How are they betting the entire game on PvP? Can you show proof that this is the case?

No?

Because I (and people in this thread) can and have already shown proof to the contrary

Therefore we win, and your argument is [censored].

I agree it's an issue, I've done some research, looked/listened/read what they have planned, and my worries were alleviated.

I hope there is engaging end-game PvE stuff too

And whomever you "heard that from" is talking straight out of their ass (and thus, you are by association to these fake 'facts')

Please show us proof that you have/know someone in the private beta, who is max level at end-game AND who has already completed all the veteran dungeons, 50+ and 50++ content, AND the adventure zones which aren't even out yet.

If you can do this (like you should have from the start) we will then all praise you and not buy the game

If not, screw off.