Hey guys,

I am not currently in the Beta, am trying to get access, but I know many people from my GW2, LOTR, and WoW guilds that are in the Beta and they all are saying the same thing, that they think ESO will go pay to play, and for one reason: There is no engaging end game content.

A game purely focused on PvP that offers literally no competitive and engaging end game PvE content is doomed to fail, and that's just because that's how the market is. It's not because it can NOT work, but it's because literally every single MMO to date has had some form of competitive end game content, save Guild Wars, and honestly, we all see how far that went. GW2 is not doing very well at all on subs. It's declining.

Most people don't know this, but for the first time in over 3 years, World of Warcraft just saw an INCREASE in subs. They went from 7.6 million to 7.8 million. 200k subs, and during a content patch. Polls and datamining show that this is from end game content and the amount of things offered at end level.

Long story short, a sub based model only works if content is offered to players on a semi-monthly basis and it includes PvP AND PVE content. You cannot ride a sub model with no competitive raiding progression. You just cannot.

Again, this is not because you can't do it, but it's just how the market is. Around here, WoW is a dirty word, but it's the biggest, most played, and most known MMO, so you have to draw from that. To not do so is ignorant. Most people that play WoW participate in SOME FORM OR ANOTHER of end game content, whether that be LFR to 25 man heroic progression raiding. But everything in between those is end game content. Without those things, WoW would be dead. End of story.

So yeah, ESO needs to get it together and offer some end game content for people who do not like to just pvp. If they don't, it is going to fail, no questions.

THE SKY IS FALLING!

...wait. It isn't. Stop posting doomporm.

the journey my friend. it's all about the journey. "end game" is a term used to describe the downfall of mmo's. journey.

An MMO that said "the journey is the end game!" failed, and it was called Guild Wars.

Sure it was lack of trinity and no sub model, also NCSOFT published it so what do you expect.

guild wars was a co-rpg. not an mmo.

I don't remember guild wars ever saying that.

if you mean gw2. that failed cause it was designed around a cash shop.

End-game? Mate, i haven't even started yet. I'll be taking my sweet time during my adventures.

And i trust this game will be very good. I will be playing it. I will be paying for it. And i will enjoy it.

And not one single doom scenario posted in the forums is going to change this.

thank god there is engaging end game content then

I guess what's engaging depends on personal preference But basically, apparently your friends have no idea what they're talking about. If they've just been in the beta, then naturally they haven't seen any of it, the beta content is only the first zone

A lot of PvP types think that ESO's AvAvA PvP is the best in any game ever.

But besides that, there are at least three and maybe more PvE endgames, which is a lot more than most games provide:

1) Adventure Zones (have not been revealed to the public but they exist, they are currently being tested): large group PvE content (think raids) in an open area with various dungeons.

2) 50+/++ content: do the other two factions' quests, another 150+ hours questing and exploration each.

3) Veteran dungeons: harder versions of the dungeon instances with additional areas and new quests and story.

4) PvE in Cyrodiil: lots of dungeons and quest objectives in the PvP area for all group sizes, requiring max level and potential PvP conflict to access.

5) Crafting: one of the richest and deepest crafting systems ever.

And that's what we have so far. Already far more than most games release with. Add to that significant content updates every six weeks.

ESO is like a fine w(h)ine.

You don't gulp it down. You savor the flavor for a long time before swallowing.

Unless you're an alcoholic.

im an alcoholic. but trust me when I say I savor the flavor.

This^

It is already pay to play. So nothing will change then.

Regarding WoW, http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/ site begs to differ. WoW is dying slowly. I do agree though that we need to have end content for PvE and PvP. I think PvP is enough to thirst our needs due to continuous engagement and guild participation due to the need of keeping one keep. For PvE, a challenging raid that is not too tedious, but rewarding is good.

Said no one ever yet? Literally?

yes. i don`t understand the people who just rush their way to max level(clicking on the quest dialogues like a madman , staying awake all night etc etc) and then they cry because the game does not have enough content xD

also as sirkandi said , there are a lot of things to do after reaching the max level.(much more than what WOW ofered hes players upon it`s release)

so basically your friends can go plough themselves in a corner since they are either blind or biased.

I really don't get why people have such a hard time grasping/accepting this. PvE is an extremely important aspect of any MMO. It just is. Saying that it isn't is just..wrong.

Why should a video game series that has ALWAYS been PvE (every TES game is PVE..) deviate straight to PvP purely for no reason?

Thank you for solving the riddle of this troll. Lol

He he, how can it go pay2play when it is already a sub model?

I see this game being a success, and expect it to remain healthy for a long time.

Because there is PvE content and we just feel pressured by hard core PvE that think everyone loves 20+ raids

Well, the story is there if you swallow it. Good thing everything is in voice acting or it'll probably be bland. They said that the leveling to 50 will take you 70 hours if you rush through it, and 150 hours if you are fond of the story. Now, if you play this as a single player, thinking you're alone in an MMO, you'll say you got your bucks back because of the content of the story.

Not everything is end game content, but having that is a HUGE plus for a lot of people/MMO people.

EDIT: 150 hours is only in one zone. Don't forget about level 50+/level 50++ so, it'll take you 450 hours just to go through the dialogues and everything.

So..us 7.8 MILLION players that play WoW are just wrong..and you 100k who want a pure pvp ESO experience are automatically right, and PvE has no place?

Lol, right. Seems legit.

Lol... Of course you're going to see an increase in subs with new players. WoW doesn't count the number of players actually playing, or paying to play their game. They count the amount of people that "Have". That doesn't for one minute mean that there's 7.8 million people playing the game. If I had to take a shot in the dark, the number of players still playing WoW, is maybe 1-1.5 million. Of course, there's no denying it's the most successful mmorpg out there to date, can't argue the trillions of dollars in Blizzards pockets. But the fact is, end game get's boring to anyone, and everyone eventually. WoW has actually been hit hard with a decrease in players through their crappy expansions, that were literally beat in three days. I remember reading an article when the Lich King first came out, that one of the top guilds beat the content in about 2 days, not surprising, but I doubt they stayed on much longer than that.

I'm not even sure how you can come to this accusation if you haven't even been in the Beta. It also sounds to me like you've done no research on TESO at all. Or you'd probably find those video's, and or articles of dev's stating each factions side of gameplay PvE ONLY, has over 100+ hours of gameplay, and I believe that was rushing things, and skipping quests and all that fun jazz.