I don't see why everyone has such a problem with using steam, granted if you buy a hardcopy you shouldnt have to use it, but if it weren't steam, it would be GFWL or something else just as [censored]. Even if you lack an internet connection, you can play offline with steam.

You buy the hardcopy, stick it in computer, it asks you for steam account or whatever, so you make one and download it. Steam will then automatically update the game if it can, but it wont download the game if you own a hardcopy. Also make sure steam has remember password checked. From then you can backup and save the games files to your computer or whatever, so when you start up game whilst logged out of steam, it will ask you to login, you then hit play offline and it will allow you to play. If you can't even connect to steam once to activate it, then your out of luck.

GFWL makes you have to be signed in and online to even save games, so just be lucky you can use steam offline. The reason people have trouble playing games offline, is because they simply set it to play offline. The files need to be backed up elsewhere to work offline.

Steam also supports mods really well, so all those saying it doesn't are lying. I have Fallout 3 on steam, and i can play any mods just aswell, the folders are exactly the same, just in differnet locations.

Also if you don't want to have steam because you think its pointless, you will find it has its uses. You can get some really good deals and save up to 80% on some games, and before long you will find you are using steam more and more. Also as others have said, theres an in-game browser which is useful as you don't have to minimize the game, and if you don't want to use steam overlay due to a poor computer or such, just go into task manager and end it. It's simple.

I really don't see the fuss here, the only people that will be effected by steam requirement, are those with no internet connection to activate it, and even then i'm sure you can use a friends computer or something.

I do agree though that steam should be optional, but if it isn't, there really is no need to complain.

Funny, my non-Steam, non-hardcopy, G4WL-enabled Fallout 3 off GamersGate does nothing of this sort.



Can I install a Steam-enabled game multiple times, in different versions, and only ever update any of the software (Steam itself included) when I chose and to a patch version of my choice, regardless of if I have an internet connection or not (downloading the patch on another computer and transferring via USB, for example, even if I have a "working" internet connection), without any loss of functionality?

If the answer to all of this is "yes, easily", I'm fine with the game being Steam-enabled. If the answer additionally is "that's the default behaviour", Steam is better than I heard. If, on the other hand, the answer to any of these requirements is "you can't do that", I'll stick to the game distribution which empowers me to do what I want to do, thanks.

Don't know about the GFWL, i've played bioshock 2 using it, and whenever i was logged out of my account, it would tell me to log in to save, which was a right pain. I did have a GFWL online account though, because bioshock 2 has online play, so an offline account would force me to make a second to play online, and lose all my previous saves etc. Which really annoyed me.

And to your second question, i've played games on steam offline, yet when gone online told me i have to update, so yes, you can play without updating, however i don't think you can play different versions, as when you install it, it has to be updated once, so it will always be the latest one when you first install it. And you can't transfer patches i don't belive.

I am all for steam being optional, but i'm just stating that it's not as bad as people make out. If you don't set your game up right to work offline, it is going to cause problems.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-agcb-2555
This may provide a useful read to certain people, as it says you need to sign in once, and can play without updating etc.

Well... as mentioned before, sometimes Steam won't let me play games in offline mode. I don't know why, but I've experienced that several times... but it does mostly work though. <_<

Thanks for posting that link. Maybe I'll get rid of those incredible loading times steam has in offline mode..

Also, I couldn't find the disable automatic updates anywhere in the settings, where can I find that?

as i said before the could just do what they did with oblivion no GWFL or Steam that's the way to go in my opinion

This is probably a stupid question.. What is GWFL?

Games for Windows Live.

Go to library in steam
right click on game you want to disable updates for
go to properties
go to updates tab
drop down box to - "do not automatically update this game"

Wait are we talking about physical copy vs. Steam digital copy, or Steam DRM vs. stupid securom disk checking?

Because if its the latter, I prefer steam.
But if its the former, I prefer physical copy.

I voted NO
no Steam(works) for me please. I don't mind it being available on steam

So have Beth announced that they will have seperate DRM's?
I think if it's on steam, that even the hard copy goes through Steam..

Great! Thanks.

Any way to stop the client updates too?

No internet requirements for single player games!
Achievements, friends and what ever is on Steam have nothing to do with TES.
Needs to be very, very mod-friendly. Steam might not be.
Physical copy should come with a map and other stuff: a must buy.

most of the time I used Xfire but i had to stop because a few of my games had conflicts with steam I much prefeer having the freedom to choose what program i want to use instead of just giving me steam I don't mind achievements and all but I would rather have no steam then achievements

I never liked achievements.. Some times it would require you to complete a game 3 times in a different way (far cry 2).. Most achievements I find agonising, even tedious... Like destroying every bunker in a particular(CoD5:W@W), I would litirally spend an hour running through the map to check where I missed one.. Most achievements are like 'complete the single player campaign', things that you would do anyway.
But I love fun rewards that make you play the game in a different way, like 'complete the game at highest difficulty', 'complete the main quest at level 1' or 'kill # chickens in # time'. Something that would require a challange.

you can't stop client updates sorry



steam is as mod friendly as if no DRM was being used, it works exactly the same way

On my computer, I and only I decide which software gets updated (or downgraded), when it happens, and to which patch level it gets updated. Any software which doesn't abide by these simple rules and tries to usurp my control over my own hardware won't get installed. So, for me - no Steam, until they change this policy.

http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/publishingservices.php

I fail to see the logic behind most of the Steam hate nowadays. It was understandable back in 2004 when Valve's servers broke every other day and people couldn't authenticate their games, but the platform has come a long way since then. Granted, if you only use Steam to play 1-2 products (shame on you, you should have every single Valve game) it may seem unecessary. There was a time when I was like you too - that single digit games list sitting there, staring back at me, mocking me. But no more! I could see TES V taking advantage of lots of goodies, most notably the Steamcloud for backing up character saves and .ini configurations.

Games on Steam are assigned to your account, not an individual PC. Install and uninstall as much as you like, anywhere. There'd probably be a physical copy anyway, so even for those with slow internet connections you'd only have to download any later updates. Bethesda could take advantage of the platform for various other goodies too, such as guest passes and integrated DLC. Yes, Steam is truly aimed more at independent developers and multiplayer gaming communities, but I've never had any regrets about games using it.

Of course, I would prefer a retail version of the game. The biggest problem with Steam-based games is that they get relatively unimpressive retail versions, with a quick reference card or two and all the actual meaty content being digital. In a series such as TES where we're all self-admitted goodie addicts, I'd rather keep the illustrious maps and manuals coming. Steam's great, but I could care less either way. Just stop with the silly arguments.

You gave arguments to why steam is so great, yet you have not taken out the arguments that have been mentioned previously. Like why signing in and preparing to launch game takes ages (more than 10 seconds, always), while the actual loading of the game takes less than a second.

Is there a way to turn off update news? Is there a way to turn off the animations?

And last time I checked, Steam IS a DRM.
http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/03/Internet-DRM-and-the-changing-online-world

Lies and slander, since HL2 was called the "the best game ever made."
I played it at my friends and beat it and its episodes, bought it and beat it at least 5 times. Everytime I go to my friends I beat it again. I love HL2 with a firey passion that will last for eternity. And yes, I played HL1 and liked it, but it is NOTHING compared to HL2.

Why this New Vegas steam thing? Obsidian has nothing to do with Valve.

Someone probably thought all PC gamers have high-speed broadband connections & worshopped at the temple of vaporous water

which we don't, not all of us anyway

if it goes on online retail, i hope it uses Impulse, give some balance to the industry.

I don't want it on steam because, I have other games on steam and they can take 6 hours to install and it is so frusturating.

It doesn't require an active connection. I used to play HL2 all the time.

It doesn't make sense to me, because Valve made Steam and HL2, so obviously it would require a one-time online activation, but Obsidean made New Vegas so why are they using Steam to authenticate their product.

The problem I have with Steam here is that Elder Scrolls games have always been about customization; modding the game to hell and back is what keeps these games playable. I'm afraid that if content management systems like Steam get involved, it's going to become an absolute nightmare.