It's free, unobtrusive, you don't need to be online to play the game past the initial check, you can install as many copies of the game as you like on as many systems as you like... would you rather have "always on" DRM or limited-use CD keys? Piracy is a real, serious issue in the PC gaming scene, as long as that's going to be the case, there's going to be DRM. I'd rather it be something like this than something like Bioshock's or Assassin Creed 2's.

I personally prefer having the disc. Gives me greater peace of mind. I don't mind if it is released on Steam, provided that it's released normally as well.

Steam doesn't stop piracy. It just annoys people that don't like it.

You may only have to have Steam online once for the initial check, but you have to have Steam running to play the game. If we only had to install Steam for that initial check, then we could uninstall Steam & never have to use it again to play the game, I wouldn't mind as much.

Steam, for me, is crap. It offers absolutely nothing good for me. Valve's anti-cheat system, for online play, is complete garbage. It's completely useless. Game devs need to go a different route for anti-piracy.

You know whats worse than Steam and G4WL together? Atari... The publishing company not the system.

I'm not sure about this one - it seems as a lot of people have struggle with Oblivion and Steam, fortunately it works fine for me. If it works correctly without any problems I think it's okay, otherwise just release the DVD-Version.

It's going to be on steam weather we want it to or not, I don't know why you people are complaining. If you don't want it on steam, just go buy the disk. I can understand if the disk worked like FEAR 2 were it downloaded from steam anyway, but ultimately steam is the best platform for gaming on the PC. I'm all about moving towards the digital realm and I trust Steam and Bethesda not to screw us over because a whole part of the longevity to there games is the modding community.

I think you're a little confused. The New Vegas disc copy requires a Steam account to use, otherwise it can't be installed.
Some people here are afraid that TES 5 will end up being the same thing. Disc copy requires Steam account.
Lastly, its whether not weather.


Anyways, Steam isn't that bad. There is worse.... Atari.

I don't know. Make it available, if it's anything like modern warfare 2 was then NO.

Got the hard copy, and you can't run it if steam doesn't open. I had to turn it on everytime I played. It's just annoying to have things running for me if I'm not using them.

Yes, but let's not even mention At*ri on these forums...
No, I wasn't confused, just not aware. Now I can see why people are worried slightly, Though I also see exactly why there doing it. With Steam required it gives theme the ability to create a social network at much lower costs, with all the rage that they are these days from a development standpoint it makes perfect sense. Steam 2.0 is far better in functionality than the first Steam as well it's pretty much just like using a browser. Not only that you have some of the best copyright protection around.

True, steam doesn't have 100% copyright protection but consider that Bethesda is still LLC...meaning it's an independent arm of it's investment company. I wouldn't want Zenimax or Bethesda to loose any money I love there games. As somebody who is actually on the IT/PR side of business I will fully vouch for the companies decision to go to steam. Steam is the future, it powered trains....it can now power the PC. DLC weather we like it or not is the future of gaming next to cloud. The only thing I won't support is a company not giving us full rights to the game and just renting us the license such as the case with OnLive.

UPDATE: to further solidify my argument I will provide you with this link.
Game Industry .biz.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2010-09-20-npd-downloads-now-bigger-than-retail-on-pc

to me Steamworks seems like it could be part of anti-trust actions against retailers, in that it's setting gamers up to dl their future games & get Steam closer to be a games distribution monopoly.

if everyone used steam in theory the could jack up the price,

I found this article interesting -

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_245/7285-Steam-A-Monopoly-In-the-Making

I want steam to come to XBOX and PS3 as it is available for MAC as seeing not all games are available on MAC which is normal and fits to XBOX and PS3 too.

There is no reason for a game not to be available on PC.

Yeah, I want world domination for PC gaming(steam).

Except for Valve already has a monopoly of sorts on the DLC market ...they could determine which shooters or RPG's there customers see and they don't. Steam is not the Devil, they are a good business that I support fully. I would gladly support TESV on steam, I think it adds a great deal of functionality to the game and gives the consumer more features, but hey...I'm Industry. So I guess I'm a bit biased. It's not Anti-Trust, it's an alternative business model that even GameStop has taken notice of via there Digital Downloads.

Agreed.
You shouldn't be required to pay for internet service to play a game in SP mode if said game is available retail and boxed. Besides, my home is nowhere near a source. My main pc is not connected to the net, nor can it be. I access the net from the library in town or a relative's home.

No need to limit SP playability to those with local internet access.

No, because the reasoning for logging onto an online service to play a single-player game and yes even when I try selecting offline mode to play mount and blade war band, it still tries to connect to the internet, is just soo stupid to me.

Sure that system keeps pirating down a bit but I'm not one of those screw the company so I can have a free stolen video game types... if I don't got the cash I wait...

Can you, now? All documentation on SteamWorks I could find states that:

1. You can only install one copy of a game on a computer (no multiple differently patched/modded versions for you!)

2. You can only install games on the same hard drive Steam is installed on, in a sub-folder.

I think it could be something about Warband rather than Steam. Can you ignore it and play the game?

@Nefarious One,
so you can't play FO:NV. It is sad really. But every PC can be connected to internet. If possible, take your PC case, go to a friend with Internet. Install/activate games you have and that's it. BTW, I am sure Steam can develop a system where you can download your unique executables and activation informations via usb sticks. Something can be worked out. Steam is free without hardware limitations after all.

Nope, every time I go to launch that game some time or another it makes me connect. I can launch the game once or twice with out connecting to steam in offline mode but it will make me connect again before it launches mount and blade: war band. That connecting to the network thing even when in offline mode seems to defeat the point of offline mode. The darn thing (steam) seems to be trying to update its self before launching a game and if it can't connect to the steam network then no mount and blade launch for me.

Added the (steam) reference after thing in final sentence above.

1. I am trying a game right now, I am 100% sure it will let me play it. Wait for my response. Edit: It works without problem. I just make a copy of the game folder and run, check the files and it is loading the files from the mod folder. You must be happy.
2. Windows can create hard links. So you can install the files in other locations. But you're right, it would be nice to have that support natively.

Besides you know what it means. First part of the sentence means, there is no activation limit where you can install a game 3 or 5 times max. Second part shows this limitation is hardware free. So you can install in many computers, you can even play at the same time in offline modes(which is why I call it DReaM instead of DRM).

Batman: Arkham Asylum; 4 activations per month.
Borderlands, 5 machine limit
Crysis; 5 machine limit
Crysis Warhead; 5 machine limit
Dark Void Zero; 5 machine limit
Grand Theft Auto IV Episodes Expansion; 15 machine limit
Neopets; 5 machine limit
Anno 1404/Dawn of Discovery: Venice Expansion; 3 machine limit
Avatar; 3 machine limit, 1 activation added back every 30 days.
Chronicles of Riddike: Assault on Dark Athena; 3 machine limit, one activation added back every 30 days.
Alpha Protocol; 5 machine limit, promised to be removed 2 years after release date
Football Manager 2009; 5 machine limit
Earth 2160; 3 machine activation limit
Wings of Prey; Starforce DRM with 3 activation limit

Looks nice right. There is worse though: Constant internet connection required:

Assassin's Creed 2
Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands
The Settlers 7
Silent Hunter 5
Splinter Cell: Conviction

@Sir Henry Echo
You understand your case is not an ideal situation. It is a bug and it must be fixed. I would report this problem on forums. I would try Warband and see what could be the problem but I missed the last sale. :cheat:

@KhadirgroGhurkag,
Now that I think about it, I am pretty sure if I move the folder to somewhere else, it will still let me play. Do you want me to try that too. :hubbahubba:
Edit: Yes it is working. :twirl:

Do you want to know how I knew it would work? Simple, Steam is not DRM. It is DRM that keeps you installing as many times as you want or restricting where you install your games. Steam is also installation free.

Got that different games in different patch versions too? And yes, given that patches are likely to introduce new bugs, remove features from the game (Bethesda itself did this with Oblivion) or even make save games incompatible, that's a hard requirement for me.

And yes, I know how to make junctions on the NTFS file system.



Compare:

Hearts of Iron 3 (from GamersGate): no limits, no restrictions, nothing running in the background.

Fallout 3 (from GamersGate): no limits, no restrictions, GFWL in the background, but this can be disabled without any ill effects.

I really prefer the GamersGate version.

I think you're trying too hard.


That's nice. If only we can convince game companies and devs. But you see the current situation. Steam is closer to Hearts of Iron and far far away from other types of DRMs. In future maybe the rival of Steam will be no DRM. But first we have to get rid of the others. SUPPORT STEAM, for the PC gaming.

Of course it is.

Buy a Steamworks game in retail and try to play it without activating it on Steam, it won't work. Or try to play an activated game without launching Steam, it won't work. Or try to sell the game, you can't, it forever tied to your account. And forget the password and username to the account, and you're doomed. A friend of mine forgot her password and the secret answer, and can no longer access the games she bought.

It may be a lesser "evil" compared to many alternatives, but in the essence, it's still "evil".


There is already several rivals of Steam without DRM, most noticeably GOG. Supporting Steam means you happily accept DRM, and that's not something I want to support, nor do I think it's a good thing.

I meant it as "not conventional DRM".

"Withouht launching steam", when you launch a game, steam automatically starts and launches the game. It is not 100% hidden from the user but easily overlook-able. Maybe they make it completely hidden. But then people will complain about it being hidden.

And I understand the notion of binding it to accounts. I would do it the same way. It is not an evil way, it is a necessary way to fix second hand sales problem. One can also find a way to sell their accounts.

And don't buy Steam games from retail. A waste of plastic and resources. Go digital. Steam is environment friendly.


I think if she bought a game from digital ways, with a receipt she can prove at least one game as hers from her account, she can get it back. Also this is a very extreme case and not steam's fault. Half of internet is about accounts and secret questions.


Yes, I happily accept Steam's version of DRM. I want to support it, as I think it is a good thing. I don't find it evil at all. There are lots of wrong choices made in the industry, most of it is stupidity not evil-ity.

PS. I hope people don't think I am commanding them, it is all suggestions. Support whatever you feel is right.

not evil, but reeks of greed imo & I very much dislike being forced to log into an online service & ask "may I please play my legally purchased single player game

Not everyone has the bandwidth to dl a 5-6gb file. for me it seems more eco to go to a store even in a car than leaving my comp on 24/7 for a year or two to download a game over 56k modem


Imo Steam sounds like a good option for those with the bandwidth, But Steamworks takes away that option, leaving some of us (at least me) wondering If I should even consider even buying Bethesda games in the future despite that I love the games.

At least we know, it isn't pirates that is the concern. As no DRM can stop them. But you should put some clothes to avoid harassment. I think steam is still naked but with privacy. Bad anology? And I give it to them with their concerns about second hand sales. I really don't think we should compare interactive games that directly come to our homes with movies that has the privilege to be seen on theaters first.

And don't see it that way. I don't think I'm logging into an online service & ask ""may I please play my legally purchased single player game" instead, I launch my game organizer/catalog software and play my game. Offline mode provides that I am not asking anyone if I can play my game. It is there in my account which I can login even in offline mode and play whereever I want.


I hope that problem will go away for all us. It must be in human rights to get a 1 MBit connection. I'm just advising if you can afford, don't buy it on retail. But still it is nice to have that option too, isn't it?


What's wrong with Steamworks?

but "offline mode" I hear isn't indefinite it still need to phone home eventually



other than forcing the buying public to use Steam, nothing at all, though not everyone can clear that hurdle