TESV Ideas and Suggestions #130

Post » Fri May 27, 2011 12:31 am

Welcome to TES V Ideas and Suggestions # 130

This thread is for ideas and suggestions for TES:V and to keep all the general discussion in one series of threads.

To discuss major issues, use a separate topic, such as the levelling topic.

Other general topics on this will either be closed or moved here.

Please at least try to read the previous few threads to avoid too much repetition:


http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=975695
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=977724
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=978706
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=980442
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=982094
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=984030
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=986314
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=988887
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=993886
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=995978
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=998552
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1000774
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1003380
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1006476
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1009979
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1013455
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1016514
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1019615
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1020944
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1022343
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1023937
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1025326
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1026491
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1027877
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1028435
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1029965
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1031535
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1032326
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1034439
http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1036286
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Flesh Tunnel
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:45 am

This has probably been said in the past, but for thieves who don't want to kill, the ability to knock an NPC out would be great. That way a thief can still break into someone's home, and if the owner is there, rather than killing him, you simply knock him out.
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Horror- Puppe
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 12:43 am

Jesus another thread. Funny we dont hear anything fram Beth when the interest is clearly there. I guess i will loose track of this thread to, it is not possible to keep up.
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Oscar Vazquez
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:03 am

I would like to come back on the question of the saving system and the interest of removing potential exploits.

We play the game to be challenged, to be tested. The satisfaction in a game is to overcome those challenges. Parallely, in a RPG, there is the storyline progression that has you hooked, as well as the questionnable outrageous characters stats management. You want to go on, you invest your energy to see what next. It is also a major aim of the game in a RPG.

Now, if you fail or if you are not much successfull, it is part of the game challenge. Playing only to be tested, challenged may lead you to accept your failure. But we are also hooked on that storyline, with this character you became attached to, and to this part of story you just wrote by playing. If it is possible to overcome the challenge that had stoped you in your progression, that is about to prevent you to see what is next, it is most probable that you will exploit this flaw. But by doing this, you are just killing the challenging side of the game, harming your experience at the same time.

The save game system should balance both. The game should still be a challenge to your player skills (I mainly think about intuition, curiosity and tactic rather than interface handling) by preventing questionable ways to overcome the challenge, while preventing the player from the huge frustration to put hours of gaming into the wall of failure.

It should not be as easy to save and replay as in present TES, but the game should preserve the player from the frustration of loosing a few hours of game investement. It is important because a RPG is not just about enjoying the present, but about keeping tracks of what was done and forseeing what is next. Nobody likes to stop a good book right in the middle of it.

Setting limits to the savable places and times seems a good way to balance the stuff. Saving should face the same kind of limitations as sleeping. We may think that being in a fight or too close from ennemies should be a good limitation. We may also imagine not to be allowed to save when standing too close from an unknown area. Saving would require you to withdraw from the edge area to be back in an already explored place. If you add an autosave when camping or entering towns, it may limit the risk of loosing too huge gaming parts, while still limitating the multiple reloading just before a fight or opening a chest.

The idea is to make reloading acceptable from an overall game investement point of view, but a harassemant from an immediate powergaming one.
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Tamara Dost
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:32 am

On the whole save game issue:
I really wouldn't limit save games in any way or just allow saving at certain locations mainly because of the open world game design and openness of actions. If you could only save in towns the live of a criminal or someone who generally avoids towns would be hard to impossible. But also on the technical side, large open world games are, as the past TES game showed, very crash prone, playing for 5 hours only to have a CTD ruin your progress svcks big time.
A little thought is also that being beaten in game does not neccessarily always mean game over, for example getting "killed" in a town could mean you re-awake in a hospital or imprisoned, depending on what you did and there's also a chance to get saved in the wilderness. Only in dungeons and really dangerous areas getting killed pretty much always means it's over.
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Max Van Morrison
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:32 am

A section even nextier than the last.

4.4.3 Thieves Guild

Joining the Thieves Guild is, naturally, more difficult than joining the legal guilds, requiring that the character have been involved in several crimes. While they do not have to be caught, any evidence toward them, however slight, is recorded. This value adds up over multiple crimes, and once high enough a message is sent to the character. The message contains a vague greeting and instructions on a randomly generated minor theft in order to join the guild. This isn't so much as a test as it is to verify the guild's suspicion that the person is the uncaught thief, as non-thieves can ignore it without repercussion. Upon completing the task, the character will eventually be approached by a messenger from the guild who, after a few questions will give directions to how and where to meet the nearest doyen or guild hangout (or not, if they are declined), where they are also given information on low-rank fences. If the character is caught and arrested for their crimes, regardless of any saved evidence value a messenger will be waiting for them when they get out of jail. If they are convicted but NOT caught, a messenger will attempt to track them down, but obviously may not be any better able to than the guards. Similar to guild dues, members have quotas to meet. When buying/selling with guild fences, a portion of the profits are automatically subtracted and put toward meeting the quota (total requirement and amount left are kept track of in the journal). If they do not fence enough items, the thief may choose to pay out of pocket to any doyen. Unlike dues, quotas are weekly instead of monthly, but are more flexible. Late quotas may run for two or three weeks without penalty, as long as they are paid in full eventually. The time allowed depends on rank and how much is paid each week; being 10 gold short is much more forgivable than paying nothing at all. Characters may also choose to pay several quotas in advance, if they expect to be out of town (or in hiding) for some time.

The Thieves Guild manages elements of the criminal world, and though it is obviously illegal, it enjoys some degree of tolerance (even partnership) from law enforcement in exchange for controlling the harsher factors of the local underworld. Murder is strongly discouraged by the guild, as it threatens their tolerated position, and any member tied to a murder will have to pay a substantial fine to cover any bribes used to cover their tracks, and for the general time and efforts of those doing so. Members must be careful not to get in over their heads, as if a crime is deemed too severe or unforgivable, the thief may be directly handed over to the guard as a sign of good faith. For the average person, the guild is no different from any other gang of thieves and equally despised, but as the guild is secretive, most members are safe from this animosity. Members will be hunted and arrested as normal, but the guild will work to reduce their sentences or break them out, while non-members are left to rot. If they continue to resist recruitment, non-members are threatened and sabotaged (for example, being under surveillance and having a guard called when a crime is done). If their crimes are severe, they may be targeted for assassination. Aside from removing uncontrolled elements, the guild coordinates thieving, keeping them from targeting the overly poor. They are particularly hated by the nobility, both as favored targets and as a competitor in bribing authority. Aside from working as a successful merchant, the higher ranks of the Thieves Guild are an effective way to acquire wealth.

Ranks behave as follows. Promotion is optional and may usually be done at any time qualifications are met. Note that ranks are a combination of those found in Morrowind and Oblivion, removing some like "bandit" which implies a method of thievery not employed by the guild, or "Gray Fox" which would obviously not apply outside Oblivion.

Toad: The Thieves Guild receives many new applicants on a regular basis, many of whom tend to be very short-lived. As such, Toads are not yet regarded as full members, and do not receive its protection, though they are not targeted as freelancers. Their quotas are very small, paid for the dangled promise of full membership. Toad rank filters out the large number of thieves who are too unskilled or impatient for criminal life. Along with quotas, they are silently judged on effectiveness; the more crimes they commit without being caught, the higher the rating, while arrest or conviction drops it. Those who do well are eventually promoted, while most either give up on crime or have the decision made for them. Each doyen can only promote a limited number per month, and will generally pick from the few with the best record. Some hapless thieves may be stuck as Toads indefinitely, never quite doing well enough to outdo each batch of newcomers. Upon promotion, "real" members of the Thieves Guild are taught a line that can be used as a greeting in dialogue. Spoken to most people it acts as a simple hello, but other members of the guild will give a specific response, allowing guild members to subtly identify each other.

Blackcap: The primary spies and informants of the guild, Blackcaps are those who have proven they can handle the more intelligent, controlled thievery the guild promotes. Nearly as plentiful as Toads (due to some choosing not to advance), Blackcaps are found all over nearly every significant settlement, most of them largely indistinguishable from ordinary citizens. Their main role is to gather information, spying and eavesdropping in the background. In the player's case, they are given a fixed journal entry that can be accessed to open a larger store of information. Any useful pieces of knowledge are stored here, specifically information that is useful to the guild in knowing what to target or avoid. Who has gained or lost a job, whether a noble has hired an extra guard, times for shipments of goods, adventurers who have recently found treasure, and so on. Most of this information is automatically acquired and recorded by overhearing conversation, engaging in smalltalk with citizens through the day, or simply moving close enough to clearly see something. Many Blackcaps will also acquire information from beggars, who are nearly invisible to most people and witness many things throughout the day. In exchange for some money they will share what they learned, though this may not be as accurate as finding it oneself. At the end of the week this is given to the doyen for their own use (see Ringleader rank below). Accurate information will deduct from the quota along with gold and fenced items. Inaccurate information, likewise, will count against it to a greater degree. Information is local; you cannot deliver the info from one city to the doyen in another. Once they have acquired one month of quota's worth in valid information, the Blackcap is up for promotion, and has two options. One is to advance to Footpad. The other is to be re-classed as a Hood. Treated as more elite, "official" Blackcaps, Hoods garner more respect from the guild, and the gold equivalent of their information is not only increased, but any that goes over the quota limit is given as pay. Many thieves choose to become Hoods indefinitely, as their indirect contributions are difficult to prosecute them for, and they can make an adequate living from the quota overflow of their information. Depending on the size of the local guild and of the city, it can only have a limited number of Hoods, to avoid too much needless repetition of reports. A Hood can choose to advance to Footpad at any time. If their reports are too frequently incorrect, they may be asked to either move on to Footpad or retire.

Footpad: With an increased quota and a degree of protection from the law, Footpads are the true thieves of the Thieves Guild. In most cases they stick to picking pockets or low-grade break-ins, due to the nature of their guild protection. When reporting to the doyen, any crimes they committed that week are also attributed to them. Members of the guard who are influenced by the guild are informed of which crimes were committed by guild members, causing them to reduce their priority and focus on those committed by non-members. For Footpads, this only applies to relatively small crimes; they will not be protected for murder or major theft. Assignments given by the doyen reflect this limit. Footpads are often chosen to be the ones to act as messengers, recruiting and threatening non-members. They are also the minimum rank at which one can act as a guild fence. Rank establishes the value of items that may be officially fenced, as more valuable or recognizable items are more dangerous and difficult to move. After enough time has passed with solid performance (filling quotas and avoiding arrest), the Footpad can be promoted upon completion of a test, generally consisting of a more high-profile robbery as a test of skill.

Prowler: Upon reaching Prowler rank, thieves are given more difficult leeway, such as home break-ins, and receive access to better fences as a result. They are also given a key to a specially made training ground, a dungeon-like obstacle course designed to test various thieving skills (including locked chests/doors, crawlspaces at various altitudes, sentries with paint "arrows", tripwires, etc) built within the basemant of some guild hangouts. Courses have several challenges, such as scavenger hunts and time trials. Prowlers receive priority protection for mid-level crimes. They are also assigned supervision tasks, being skilled enough to follow most people but not well known enough in the guild to be recognized. Such tasks include observing suspected freelancers and trailing individuals who may be engaged in something potentially harmful to the guild. Promotion requires that two months worth of quota have been paid (counted from when the rank of Prowler is first reached), and for the character to achieve a certain score on the training ground at least twice, to ensure it's not a fluke.

Cat Burglar: Recognized as talented thieves, Cat Burglars are directed to target stores and guarded manors, and again have a higher quota and access to better fences. As the test for promotion demand some degree of skill in climbing and acrobatics, they are also given tasks to smuggle highly illegal items (lower ranks may smuggle more common contraband), being able to use alternate routes such as rooftops. Generally regarded as among the best "ordinary" thieves of the guild, Cat Burglars are usually the ones given the outside jobs the guild is hired for. If arrested, considerable efforts are often made to have them released early or broken out. Promotion requires two months worth of quota from becoming a Cat Burglar, and for the character to be able to complete the training course completely undetected by any sentries, more than once. Lastly, they are sworn to a dangerous loyalty oath; though standard arrests will continue to be resisted by the guild, any actions that intentionally betray the Thieves Guild will be met with zero tolerance.

Shadowfoot: Though the Thieves Guild is not the Dark Brotherhood, their skills in stealth and considerable influence make them quite capable of performing their own assassinations. Whenever a death is required, the task falls to the Shadowfoot rank, the official enforcers of the guild. Such killings may include dangerous freelancers, witnesses who will not be silenced, crusading guardsmen, and other guild members of Shadowfoot rank or above who betray the guild. Compared to more typical assassination, Shadowfoot attacks usually focus on completely vanishing the individual; killing them as stealthily as possible and disposing of the body, while the rest of the guild works to suppress any evidence or investigation, spreading rumors that the person simply left town and hasn't been seen since. Their homes are often picked clean by lower ranking members. Aside from their grimmer tasks those of Shadowfoot rank are free to engage in thieving as usual, though seldom actually need to, as successful assassinations fill their quota. Promotion can be done at almost any time, but is difficult. They must have performed at least three successful jobs, and be able to obtain a perfect score on all of the challenges in the training course.

Operative: The highest rank obtained through skills in general thieving, Operatives are the elite of the Thieves Guild and the only rank assigned the heists handed down by the Master Thief, as well as other difficult tasks such as breaking fellow guild members out of jail. They have access to the finest guild fences and every effort is made to keep them out of jail, though they are rarely caught. Their quotas are higher, but often easily filled by the income from heists. Those with other matters to attend to (I.e., adventurers) tend not to advance beyond Operative, as the higher ranks of the Thieves Guild involve a considerable amount of paperwork, so to speak. As well, Operatives are given a rather unique opportunity. Through the guild's contacts with high-ranking authority, Operatives who wish to retire (or simply have too much of the law on their tail) may be hired as agents by the local government, performing a covert task for them in exchange for amnesty. Promotion requires that at least one successful heist has been performed, and also requires a quasi-retirement through work as an agent. Higher ranks tend not to engage in as much pure thievery, along with the wiping of their record, effectively allowing the Ringleader to act as a doyen. Because they are thus acknowledged as no longer major legal threats, this is why doyen, despite being the most public members of the guild, are seldom targeted by the guard.

4.4.3.1 Ringleader/Mastermind

Ringleader: Mostly retired from active thieving (but entirely capable of it should they choose), Ringleaders act as the doyen of the Thieves Guild. Upon promotion they are given a unique item called a Thieves Ledger, which is the key to their function. Each ledger contains a list of guild thieves working in that area and their rank, as well as a list of names for every person/business/other buildings contained within that city. The front of the ledger also contains the specifics for when and where the doyen provides their services, such as "Garden of Dareloth;12am to 6am;while holding torch" to use Oblivion as an example. This may be edited at any time, and the information is automatically sent to the guild. A Ringleader may act as doyen as frequently as daily or as seldom as once a month; failure to provide services at least that often is not tolerated for long. Most choose to operate once a week. Thieves who are due on their quotas over that month are not punished for the absence of the doyen, and are only considered late if they still fail to pay after their appearance.

Hoods and Blackcaps from all over the area will frequently report to the Ringleader, in person if they are acting as doyen or otherwise with mail or other messages. The information they report is automatically added to the ledger. The doyen uses it to edit the priority of locations in the provided list of city areas. Poor people are low priority, both for the image of the guild, and for the fact that someone given a chance to financially recover can be more effectively robbed later. Manors whose owners are on a trip and have taken a guard with them are high priority, and so on. While functioning as a doyen, the Ringleader will be approached by the local guild thieves, either asking for assignment or paying their quota. Local fences will deliver the cut of their profits which goes toward each quota directly to the doyen, the details of which are also automatically added to the ledger (which lists quota owed/paid by each thief's name).

Assignment is given in the form of telling thieves which locations have high priority, and which have low, thus improving the effectiveness of their thieving and preventing several from trying to hit the same place. Thieves who meet their quota from targets will often halt thieving activity until the next meeting with the doyen, while those with more to go will then target another location of their own choosing. As such, doyen who are frequently active can more easily direct activity, while those who seldom act must rely on the common sense of their thieves. Much of the quota they carry is then picked up by a Mastermind; attempting to steal or skim off the top is, naturally, not tolerated. Any extra counts toward the doyen's own quota, with the overflow finally being their own profit. Due to the frequently large number of thieves in a city, a doyen can manage a sizable income.

Ringleaders handle most promotions, and hand out more specific assignments they are given by Masterminds, such as assigning Operatives to heists and a Shadowfoot to a target. Only heists come from one source; other tasks are a combination of things delivered by Masterminds, given directly to the Ringleader, or assigned by the Ringleader of their own volition, if they feel it needs doing. Doyen are judged by the overall effectiveness of their leadership in the area; the percentage of thieves above Toad rank who are caught, how many quotas are on time, the performance of tasks assigned to higher ranks (reflecting whether the Ringleader was correct in promoting them). Promotion requires a minimum of three months time as a Ringleader (not a sum of three months acting as a doyen) and a favorable overall performance ranking. Rather than by asking through advancement topics, this happens as a message from the Right Hand Man, and does not occur unless one of the limited positions for a Mastermind opens up.

Mastermind: The most delicate and important tasks of the guild are handled by the Masterminds, such as managing high-profile bribes. When an overzealous guard captain won't leave the guild alone, it's a Mastermind who has them reassigned to the corner of wastebasket and nowhere. The most effective Masterminds have a subtle touch; many live not as thieves but as prominent members of society, nobles and politicians or other reputable individuals of considerable social weight. Guards do not know they're aiding the guild, only that orders from above have told them to release a certain prisoner. A countess might tell their trusted advisor about a plan to send an agent to infiltrate the Thieves Guild, only to have that agent disappear thanks to a Shadowfoot the next day.

As the name implies, successful Masterminds are those who are clever. Many of their potential actions are not related to any specific scripting; instead, the Mastermind keeps an observant eye on the world around them and acts accordingly. If their actions aid the guild, it functions better. The healthier the guild, the more non-jailed members it has, and the more on-time quotas, thus, the more money in the Mastermind's pocket. Most quotas which are paid to the doyen, and most of that money then moves on to the Mastermind. A portion is their own profit, with the rest being designated as guild money. They manage most issues of guild funding, essentially acting like individual banks. Most of the guild's fortune is divided among the Masterminds, who watch over that portion as separate from their own personal income. Guild money is used for funding many of the actions the Mastermind may take to aid the guild, such as paying for bribes, hiring outsiders to perform tasks, cover-ups, salaries for assignments, and so on.

In addition to their nonspecific tasks, Masterminds are the main higher management through which the doyens communicate. If they cannot or choose not to perform a task themselves, they can write into the form of an assignment and send it to the doyen, who in turn will assign it to a thief of the proper rank. To aid in their tasks, during each of these communications the Mastermind is given a stockpile of information that the doyen has acquired since they last talked; what crimes were committed by who, which thieves were arrested, the results of specific assignments, info gathered by Hoods and Blackcaps that is not relevant to target priority. When a heist is handed down by the Master Thief, it goes to a Mastermind, who in turn sends it to the doyen whose underlings they think are most capable.

Because they are actively engaged in large-scale illegal activity compared to the recently-pardoned Ringleaders, Masterminds are again highly wanted individuals, but they are rarely caught thanks to the combination of a hands-off approach with the skills of a former Operative. Most members of the guild are not privy to their identity, as even interactions with the doyen are usually handled via messenger. There can be no more than one Mastermind per doyen, and if there are fewer, they are assigned to deal with several. Masterminds do have a form of quota, but their income is large enough that it is not needed to be actively dealt with, and is instead drawn from their overseen portion of guild finds automatically each week. Obviously, this amount does not count toward the guild, but is sent straight to the Master Thief. Skilled Masterminds make more than enough to counter this drain. Promotion is beyond the control of the Mastermind; when the Master Thief retires, they tell the Right Hand Man who they wish to succeed them, usually whichever Mastermind has had the most experience, unless they have specific reasons to choose someone else.

4.4.3.2 Master Thief

The Master Thief, by virtue of their job alone, is one of the most wanted people in the world, but also nearly impossible to catch. Only the Masterminds have any contact, and that is with the Right Hand Man. Likewise, Masterminds are generally not told who the others of their rank are, and don't know if one of their number has been promoted. They themselves are scarcely known, speaking to the guild only through the Ringleaders, who seldom know their name or face. As such, it is normal for nobody, even in the Thieves Guild, to know exactly who the Master Thief is, aside from their Right Hand Man.

The Right Hand Man is an NPC who assists the Master Thief, sending and receiving information. The office of the Master Thief is actually set (in terms of how the game sees it) by the location of the RHM; if the Master Thief tells them to relocate elsewhere, that new place becomes the hideout of the Master Thief. Duties of the rank are done within that area, otherwise, they are regarded as just another citizen. Whenever the Master Thief is replaced, the RHM directs them to the last place they used as an office. It is common for one individual to frequently move about different bases of operation, thus making it less likely for the RHM to be followed or associated with any single area.

Like other faction leaders the Master Thief can override many duties and actions performed by lower ranks, but their main role is in the devising of heists. A heist is an organized and complex thieving mission, typically involving a major target, multiple steps, and several Operatives working in tandem. For example, a heist might be made to target the treasury of a castle known to be hosting a party. The plan requires four operatives and two steps. One is designated to create a disturbance in one part of the castle, drawing the attention of guards. Two others are two approach the vault, disable the guards, and open it, triggering alarms. Instead of looting, however, one will enter the vault and the second will lock it behind them, after which they will remain outside the door. The guards will capture them and find the vault locked, and assume it was not broken into. The fourth Operative, meanwhile, will have snuck into the dungeon while activity went on elsewhere, breaking out their two colleagues after they are imprisoned. The second step takes place the next day. The three Operatives will infiltrate the party as guests and sneak into the castle, quietly again disabling the guards. The fourth, who has waited overnight inside the vault, will open it from the inside, allowing the others in without triggering alarms. In this way, they are able to enter and quickly and quietly take as much as they can carry before escaping.

While AI limitations would require heists given by an NPC Master Thief to be fairly basic and simple, the player can make them as intricate as they like. The income from a successful heist is split up among ranks, with the Master Thief, Masterminds, and Ringleaders taking the most, with the rest spread thin across the rest of the guild. The operatives who were involved are paid well. Though most of the guild doesn't see much of it, it's money they get for doing nothing just by being in the guild, and as such is well received, boosting morale and loyalty. To aid in their projects, most of the information that passes through doyens and Masterminds is also moved along to the Master Thief via the RHM, who can provide it whenever talked to. Like Masterminds, the Master Thief can create smaller assignments if they wish and send them into the guild, or perform other tasks helpful to the guild through their daily lives.

Between the "quotas" of the Masterminds and income from heists, the Master Thief can obtain considerable amounts of wealth. Some may be spent on supplies to be used by Operatives to aid in heists, but most is kept as personal profit. Despite this, most do not retain their job for long. Though the barrier of anonymity keeps them safe, efforts to track them down are constantly underway, and the majority of Master Thieves choose to retire in luxury before their position brings them harm. If an active or retired Master Thief is for whatever reason arrested or convicted, the Right Hand Man will send orders to the Masterminds to aid them as if they were coming from the master, treating them like any other guild member receiving help in breaking out. In this way, even if a Master Thief is killed nobody will actually know, as promotion is sent out via RHM in either case, and despite their anonymity they will still receive guild aid. While a Master Thief cannot be "fired" or otherwise lose their position, poor performance will weaken the guild through Operatives being arrested in heists and reduce general loyalty with the lack of payouts, weakening the barrier that protects their identity from the law. To retire, the Master Thief simply gives their choice of successor to the RHM and walks away, the same person as always as far as anyone knows.

Because of its secretive nature, being part of the Thieves Guild will not usually stand directly in the way of joining other factions, even (and especially) regarding the higher ranking members. Instead of restricting access to joining, most difficulty will instead come from the Thieves Guild itself, if a member decides to join an opposed group. Only the Master Thief has a list of who the Masterminds are, and so can also oppose their joining other groups if they so decide. The Master Thief can more or less do as they wish, having an unknown identity, but obviously will not gain any sort of bonus to treatment from fame elsewhere.

4.4.3.3 Expelled/rejoining

Most punishments in the Thieves Guild are financial, involving fines, increased quota, or confiscation of items. More serious offenses can lead to the thief being turned over to the guards to serve out there sentence in full, allowed to return to the guild and its privileges after sweating it out. Extreme defiance of guild rules, such as repeatedly engaging in prohibited crimes or attacking/robbing other members, can result in extreme punishment, such as the individual being dragged into the wilderness, their legs broken, and left there to fend for themselves. The most severe crime against the guild is to betray it, actively working against its practices for other factions or giving the names of its members to the guard. Doing so results in being expelled; at higher ranks, it results in being marked for death by the Shadowfoot rank.

Being expelled from the guild is not easy, generally requiring that it be done so intentionally, and as such rejoining is not easy either. In fact, by the rules it's not allowed at all, forcing a character who wants to return to the guild to do so under an alias. Expelled members are otherwise treated as rogue thieves, to be sabotaged or attacked, unless they also give up on crime, in which case the guild will leave them alone (unless they were high enough rank to be marked for death). Members who choose to retire are allowed to leave and no longer pay quotas, but they must also not engage in criminal activity, lest they be treated as rogue thieves. A retired guild member can return at any time, but must first "reactivate" their status with a doyen before stealing anything.
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Kristina Campbell
 
Posts: 3512
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:08 am

Post » Fri May 27, 2011 11:23 am

I hope they add something like a bandit guild to where you can raid villages and stuff like that. I also hope that they implement a camo system, not camo like we have today, but like wearing green in grass would make it harder to see you, and wearing green in snow would make it way easier. more wildernessy wilderness. have people that are looking for rat meat, bear pelts, ect. to make it worth hunting animals. make real beards, more styles of armor, and weapons, bring back medium armor. I would also like to see apparel stacking again like in morrowind.
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Sylvia Luciani
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:25 am

I hope they add something like a bandit guild to where you can raid villages and stuff like that.

Nothing agains the idea but again, just adding "guild" to the end of everything doesn't really work because a guild is actually a trade, commerce and services organisation and i doubt bandits would do that :P
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Hayley Bristow
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:00 am

A section even nextier than the last.

4.4.3 Thieves Guild

:thumbsup:


A couple quick suggestions.
  • Be able to see the name of the creature in a soul gem.
  • Realistic collision meshes. If possible, make them exactly as the original mesh for the object.

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Sarah Knight
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 8:09 am

How about making standard wildlife (i.e. wolves, bears, etc.) behave with a little more verisimilitude? You know, like not attacking the player and every NPC they encounter in a mindless fight to the death? This trend in games needs to stop; if you're going to throw in real world wildlife, you could try to make them behave more like their real world counterparts.
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Louise Dennis
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:16 am

How about making standard wildlife (i.e. wolves, bears, etc.) behave with a little more verisimilitude? You know, like not attacking the player and every NPC they encounter in a mindless fight to the death? This trend in games needs to stop; if you're going to throw in real world wildlife, you could try to make them behave more like their real world counterparts.

http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1028435&view=findpost&p=14913555
It was VERY annoying how everything tried to kill you no matter what. But this could also apply to other creatures so they actually show behaviours instead of just rush and attack.
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sarah
 
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Post » Thu May 26, 2011 10:15 pm

Rhekarid gave me an idea ty.

I was thinking why not have court rooms or something and give your criminal characters a chance to have a trial where evidence of your crime is brought in and examined by a judge or jury to give you a chance to reduce or expel your jail sentence. Of course before and after if you are found guilty the trial you have a chance of breaking out or even during your trial. Maybe you can hire a lawyer or have a court appointed lawyer and depending on how much gold you have depends on how good you lawyer is. Also your sentences can rang from a few days to death maybe.
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Jordyn Youngman
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:02 am

Do all dungeons need to be dark and damp? Something I've really enjoyed in World of Warcraft have been evil places that simultaneously manage to be bright and beautiful. It's not that I don't want caves and crypts, but a bit more variety would be nice.
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Undisclosed Desires
 
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Post » Thu May 26, 2011 10:48 pm

- Enemy societies and scheduals (even for wolves and bears)

- even more written material and lore.

- Some sort of VATS-like system
- Reviving Werewolves like the ones in Bloodmoon.

- Vampire clans once more
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SWagg KId
 
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Post » Thu May 26, 2011 8:57 pm

An idea i was having in regards to the magic system was. Why do we need to buy spells? doesn't that set a limit to low to what you can achieve with magic? and doesn't that make it very expensive to be a mage? The idea i was having in this regard was perhaps allowing the player to "channel" power towards a magic class which would raise their experience that field and increase the level and abilities of spells you currently have and unlock new spells. Perhaps the points could be spent or perhaps as you gain a certain magic level you would automatically unlock spells. I was thinking this would not be stopped at level 100 of a skill and instead would continue gaining and getting stronger as you add experience to the field thus increasing the damage all of your spells do making magic more useful than it was in oblivion. This is of course just a idea and i look forward to everyone's input.
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Mrs. Patton
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 9:35 am

On the whole save game issue:
as the past TES game showed, very crash prone, playing for 5 hours only to have a CTD ruin your progress svcks big time.

Daggerfall with a save spot half way each dungeon anyone? No? :D

Any limitation to saving would not work in TES5. I need to save before I take any quest, in case all goes to hell as it so often does.
In some games it's part of the fun:
If you've played ADOM through without cheating(saving), you can be considered a demigod.
In Mount&Blade, you can't die, and neither can you save/reload. If you totally lose a battle, your hero characters abandon you, your men are killed or taken prisoners, and your gold and trade goods are looted. Then you manage to escape, and are able to collect the pathetic remains of your once glorious army, swearing vengeance. VERY annoying to go trhough all that, but makes you think twice in which battles to take part of. And how to manage yout troops while battling. Perfect in a game that recuires wits.

How about making standard wildlife (i.e. wolves, bears, etc.) behave with a little more verisimilitude? You know, like not attacking the player and every NPC they encounter in a mindless fight to the death? This trend in games needs to stop; if you're going to throw in real world wildlife, you could try to make them behave more like their real world counterparts.

Gothic did it.
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Mizz.Jayy
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:42 am

Do all dungeons need to be dark and damp? Something I've really enjoyed in World of Warcraft have been evil places that simultaneously manage to be bright and beautiful. It's not that I don't want caves and crypts, but a bit more variety would be nice.


That would be nice - monsters should dwell in dark caves while bandits and outlaws should have a different dungeon design, like more lights and storage rooms, training rooms, maybe a ringleader room or something like that.
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Damien Mulvenna
 
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Post » Thu May 26, 2011 10:39 pm

That would be nice - monsters should dwell in dark caves while bandits and outlaws should have a different dungeon design, like more lights and storage rooms, training rooms, maybe a ringleader room or something like that.


Plus some none dungeons.
Whats wrong with glades, glens, towers, forts that are mostly above ground etc?
Oblivion had bandit camps which was a start. Not every enemy needs to dig themselves into a hole.
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Benji
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:04 am

Plus some none dungeons.
Whats wrong with glades, glens, towers, forts that are mostly above ground etc?
Oblivion had bandit camps which was a start. Not every enemy needs to dig themselves into a hole.


Oh man thats something that also bothered me in oblivion, there were no towers or other above-ground buildings were enemies would be at. I agree with you, it doesent always have to be dungeons.
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stevie trent
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:26 am

Merchants shouldn't know that the bowl you stole is stolen, unless it is a unique item. In which case you sell it to a fence.
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Veronica Flores
 
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Post » Thu May 26, 2011 8:08 pm

Well i played a game wile back called two worlds well when you traveled to 1 citey to another its like takeing a road trip like it takes 1 hour (real time) to get to one city to another I loved it and when you got there you would like trade and did busines with people intile you didint need to be there then you would travel again not like the TES system

There should be also like when there is something in your way and your traying to escape from gaurds badits esc esc you can like hope over it like fences walls, climbing also when you need to get up a mountan your baulding you can try to find a way to climb to the top or somethjing like that
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Reven Lord
 
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Post » Thu May 26, 2011 11:55 pm

My Ideas...

Religious Factions

Noble Factions

Knight Factions (Both Real Knights and Shining White Armor Ones)

Archaeologists Fafction

Adventurers Guild (Guild For Normal People seeking adventuring)

Hunters Guild

Imperial Legion.
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Cassie Boyle
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:31 am

My Ideas...

Religious Factions

Noble Factions

Knight Factions (Both Real Knights and Shining White Armor Ones)

Archaeologists Fafction

Adventurers Guild (Guild For Normal People seeking adventuring)

Hunters Guild

Imperial Legion.


Exacly the kind of factions we needs, just one questions, what is a "Noble Guild?"
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Kelsey Anna Farley
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:09 am

Adventurers Guild (Guild For Normal People seeking adventuring)

I keep seeing this phrase come up, but how exactly do you think it would work?
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Charlotte Lloyd-Jones
 
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Post » Thu May 26, 2011 11:26 pm

no more "go get bread and flour for me" quest im tired of dat crap
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Stat Wrecker
 
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