You know personally i'd rather like to see my character getting BETTER represent my progress instead.

It's just a way to measure progress, when in conversation with someone.
What level are you up to?

It's much easier than rattling off 30 sets of skill numbers to brag.

Sorry but i don't play a SINGLE player game for bragging rights i play it for my fun.

Besides TES is not linear, what the hell do levels matter ANYWAY?
"Oh MAN i sp played that optional side quest i could do any time at leavel 23"
"That's nothing, I played that at level 45, thaaaaat's hardcoe"

... yea...

Umm, yes, I'm aware that single player games don't offer much in ways of bragging.
I AM JUST SAYING that if you are ever fortunate enough to bump into a TES gamer, you can estimate his time & effort on his character by exchanging a VERY SIMPLE number, instead of trading a list of skill numbers.

Dan: I'm level 8, I haven't really done much yet.
Jeff: Oh, really? I stayed up for 48 hours straight. I think I'm somewhere around 37. Finished a guild and looted from every single house in 2 towns.

I hear ya on that.

I understand the bs of leveling and 'efficient leveing' and all that, but i can get over that. I like the general concept of leveling too much I guess. Even if they just kept track of the different skill levels I would then want to have the sum of my skill levels represented by some sort of level number.... ya know

god, it's like i can't even go on the Internet anymore w/o running into some anti-leveling elitist. :intergalactic:

How about a compromise.

You still see your level as a big shiny number... but everything else levels fully automatically with no number crunching or game flow interruptions AND you can turn that number OFF.

I fixed it....only b/c I don't want to end up talking to one of my friends and hear something like " pfft i don't do leveling ." It could ruin relationships and could divide the entire TES community.

edit: :lmao:

... wow... that's sad really...

So wait, you'd say that would already "divede the TES community", if there was an OPTION to turn the QUEST COMPASS off... oh hell that could shatter the UNIVERSE, RRUUUUNNNNNN...

Sorry man, what i wrote is mostly Poe.

Honestly, I can see both sides of the leveling debate

Yea i know, people want something they can see. My point on that is just, it's simply not necessary, you don't need to show it around since you don't play online and look for people with an equal level.
Nor is it important gameplay wise as an automatic leveling system works (Kubos character advancement system for Oblivion for example) and it makes the game much more fluent with less interruptions.

Though i did see the other side there too, some people are really hypochritic about this. While on one side someone once claimed to be a RPG purist he then said "it should be possible to turn OFF leveling certain skills when you use them", kinda like saying "well i DO use the skill atypical for my class but i don't LEVEL them so it doesn't count"... yea right... don't remember who that was so no offense if it was you

Well anyway on topic, personally the leveling itself should switch from numbers and level based to a purely fluent one, every action adds to improvement instantly instead of when you collected enough.
There CAN still be a representation with a number but should be purely estetical, instead of being on "level 12" you're more on "level 12.5899"

I sense a lack of understanding of the word "elitist" here...

I would be fine with any system, whether it involves sleeping and leveling or not, so long as my skills can still get better. :celebration:

i understand the word and the way that i used it. perhaps you simply disagree with my joke and it's implication. The implication being that some people are too good for leveling and leveling to them is perhaps an insignificant mater that is below their heightened appreciation of superior game play. And yes, i was kidding and yes i understand the word elitist.

I understand that I'm a noob around here, but i don't think most people are beyond a little joking these days... not to say that i don't take my oblivion play a bit seriously sometimes myself... :toughninja:

I couldn't agree more. Cyrodiil was supposed to be about 5-6 times the size of Vvardenfell, yet it felt like it was about the same size (largely due to the terrain being one big slope from north to south, and the fact that you could view the Imperial Tower from just about anywhere on the map). It really dashed my hopes/expectations when Bethesda tried to represent all of Cyrodiil by reducing everything 'to scale', meaning 1 mile represented 50 miles (or more), 1 farm represented 1000 acres of farmland, a football field turned into a postage stamp, etc. If they broke up the map into three or four parts, then the size that we got with Oblivion's release would have been a little easier to digest.

As far as leveling is concerned, I'd be fine with a more fluent system where you simply gain a level everytime you increase your major skills by 10 points, rather than having to sleep to get the level up. I'm kind of on the fence with regards to the multipliers, though. I like being able to increase my minor attributes a bit faster so that my character doesn't svck so much, but I don't think that I'd miss the multipliers if they were gone. I do think the multipliers encourage power-leveling too much. I know that I tend to pay way more attention to my stats than I should in order to get that 'x5', and as a result, I sometimes won't let my character sleep for weeks

You got me!





Seriously though I don't really care much about leveling in the genereal sense. I care about my sneak, agility and possibly speed, marksman and blade. That is it...
The other level are more of a "bonus"

It would have REALLY been more effective to set the game on just the imperial island instead of all of Cyrodiil. You would have gotten a really huge and impressive looking Imperial City and the scope of the whole game would feel a lot more impressive.
Also think of this, you're pretty much isolated on that island, there IS a while province around you but all you hear are news that somehow get it, talk about a whole city being destroyed and maybe you can even see pillars of smoke rise and glows of the burning towns in the distance.
And even being that isolated, imagine a whole quarter of the town suddenly being attacked like Kvatch and quarentined, especially if that is INSIDE the IC and not somewhere around it.

That would have increased the feeling of urgency and a real invasion you're helpless against, just hearing that they destruction slowly devours the land around and even spilled in the most protected part of the whole continent.


But on the size issue, they REALLY need to adress that better, either make it bigger if it's a whole province OR try a more compact setting but then agreeing on just a PART of a province.


I'd actually be for skipping the 10 level ups part and go to a fully fluent system, it did work nicely in Oblivion with mods.
And it did actually FEEL like you trained the attributes you used with your skills, while it may have worked a bit "slower" than with with multiplicator it did help to boost the stats you actually USED a lot faster than usual, especially since you got the bonus of it pretty much instantly instead of just at the next level up.
It's really more a "you get what you actually put into it" system but it works.

i disagree while they should have made the game bigger in general it wouldve completely broken the game to limit it to the island it wouldve removed mages guild recomendations all the fighters guild quests the dark brotherhood sanctuary most of the thieves guild you wouldnt be able to save martin from kvatch no knights of the nine quest

i can see how a bigger better ic would be great but making it so you can only be there would svck

hubbard's idea about using runestones for teleportation reminds me of the Propylon Chambers in Morrowind. Same idea, different implementation. You needed to find the proper "index" for each destination, and once you found enough of them you could pretty well circle the interior of Vvardenfell. The boats, Silt Strider caravans, and Mages Guild teleporters could cover the outer perimeter, so between them you could eventually get fairly close to just about anywhere on the map. It wasn't just "handed" to you, though, since unfortunately a few of the indicies were pretty well hidden (as in "not findable" without looking it up online or in the CS).

Limiting the latest game to the IC would definitely NOT have been a game-breaker. How much more useful would the TG have been if the IC was 4X the size with plenty more to do? There could have been an actual MG chapterhouse in addition to the more exclusive University. The FG would have had plenty to do around the surrounding Imperial Isle without having to limit itself strictly to fights within the city. Instead of having Kvatch, Skingrad, and the other regional Capitals as the only towns in the game (aside from Hackdirt and a couple of other miniscule settlements with a population in single digits and a small patch of veggies poorly representing a huge agricultural region), there could have been numerous small towns around the outskirts of the Imperial Isle, and the events which occurred in those other cities could mostly have just been moved to the smaller towns ("town", as in anything up to the size of the smaller "cities" in OB), or even within the various outlying districts of the IC. The existing IC should have been the government complex or Palace, with the actual merchant, residential, and industrial areas being outside the old Ayleid walls, protected by a much more recent and much less impressive city wall of Imperial construction. With the appearance of Oblivion Gates all over Tamriel, the bridges over Lake Rumere and the encircling rivers would have either been blocked or destroyed, limiting the character to the island without resorting to the annoying "You can't go there" warning message when you got near the border. I see it as being a much more credible and easily doable alternative, but that's not what was done. Repeating the mistake of "over-compressing" the map in the next installment of the series won't make matters better just by making it "consistent".

Levels were fine if you used GCD, Kobu's, or nearly any other levelling mod in your game (with either MW or OB), where you increased seamlessly without having to sleep to advance. "Level" should merely affect the lists of spawned items and adversaries around you (but not all of them), and be a convenient way of approximating one's overall progress in the game, not become an end in itself. The same should hold true for skills and attributes, where your character gradually improves, not by triggering "perks" that suddenly give your character new abilities out of thin air just by virtue of having reached a "threshold" for that skill or attribute.

You're assuming that they would have just cut all the concepts that existed outside Rumare Island.

If they had intentionally designed the game from the start to be only on Rumare Island, then the concepts of all those things that existed outside would still have been represented on Rumare Island. The FG and MG would have had proper branches on the Imperial Island, and there would have likely been lots of outlying farm communities and settlements added to give those FG and MG members other branches to visit and quests to do (after all, they wouldn't have stretched the island to 16 sq miles and then just left it completely barren like it was in the real game). Same with the DB; they would likely have found a refuge deep in the sewer system, and the TG would have operated just fine with all the new content that would have been introduced by scaling the island. True, Kvatch would have to be neutered from the quest-line, but the concept that Kvatch represents could easily be replaced with a section of the Imperial City, or an outlying community. The KotN questline could have easily been adapted to exist on Rumare Island as well.

I would like to see more features that were in the game Daggefall be in the next TES V game! I really miss having Wagons to put my stuff in while adventuring in old dungeons. Sleeping outside the city limits without a bed! Random Quest from NPC's, that was the most fun in Daggerfall, it made the game new everytime you played it. I'm sure there are more features from Daggerfall that should make it into the next game.

thanks
eric

Did you not play MW. in MW you started off not knowing where any cities were, except Balmora i think and obviously seyda neen. any way if you didnt know where things were, you could still pay some transport ppl to take you to a certain location. as ive said before, to replace OB fast travel, there are horses, mark and recall, almsivi and divine intervention, a faster moving char from the start, and equivalents of boats and silt striders. not to mention guild transports. why the hell should ppl who dont like the OB fast travel be forced to run from leyawiin, to bruma, then to anvil, over to cheydinhal, after tht to chorrol, and finally to bravil, when a system tht would prob work for everyone be used. i like some of your other suggestions but not the fast travel related ones.

Heh, I didnt even know where Balmora was when I started playing.

something else tht bothered me in OB was how when i killed the elf in skingrad (glarthir i think), i put a [censored] load in his house. i came back and so much of my super valuable stuff disapeared. in tes5 if there are thieves and youre in your house and someone breaks in tht would be all good. or if they actually came in and stole your stuff cause you hadnt bought a proper lock then thts fine too. wht i dont want is my [censored] randomely dissapearing on me, for no reason other than the game wont allow you to put your stuff on this place noone vistiks just cause. for ex. in Mw i had to kill the commona tong guild ppl. when i did this i just made a sweet setup there. nothing dissapeared on me. in OB if you did tht youre stuff would dissapear. wht i also did in Mw was i set up a camp thing on the roof of tht one assasins house. the assasin tht youre supposed to kill by sneaking in from the roof hatch and put tht stuff in his couldron. as pretty much everyone has said there should be a way of putting books for ex. into a bookcase without using tht bloody grab mechanic thing. enough said on tht.

Somebody mentioned the crappy implementation of poisons. with my crazy ass dark elf assasin i was really good at alchemy and poisons were so helpful like you wouldnt believe. however the poison apples were a wicked idea, but the mourons wouldnt eat them, even if there was no other food. theyd just sit there being mental. and if they ever do eat the poison apple, i dont they shouldnt get up screaming, running around completely green, until their health runs out. tht just plain stupid. on a diff. note, i like the idea of getting drunk, similar to the way it was done in fable 1. it was just kinda fun whenever you acclomplished something to have 20 drinks and ya. im not an alchoholic but tht doenst mean my character cant be lol. also if tht were to be implemented, keep it matze, or whtever there is in skyrim, dont get to earthly plz. by tht i mean not beer, vodka, scotch, rather than matze, sujamma, etc.

Poisons should definitely be improved. You should be able to poison any kind of food. You click on the poison in your inventory, and it brings up a menu of all the items you can poison, which are weapons and food. So if you put a poisoned food in some food storage or a kitchen for example, NPCs will regularly take from that food storage and can be poisoned that way. NPCs should realize that there is poisoned food in the storage and empty it out and replace it.