Daniel Kay, just so you know Ocato was the achmage guild before Traven. He left it somewhere between MW and OB to attend to focus on his duties as the Imperial Battlemage to Uriel

Ahh i see, well still don't think it fully downs the theory, Traven still seems too fishy to me.

Dead fish tend to stink.


That's poor storytelling, nothing more. The fact is the player was in the dark throughout most of the game. It isn't that deceit is bad, its just bad when it's implemented to cover gaping holes of stupid in the plot.

For the Kahjiit race, I feel there should be more of a choice to what kind you want to be! Even they have a set of unique Kahjiiti in their world and so it would be nice to be able to choose from one (discluding the ones that aren't man-like).

It would also be nice to have their feet back to the way they were in Morrowind! Just less stiff when running and more agile since they are cat-like.

Almost forgot! with each of the different Kahjiit race, the face should be like that certain race and have their own unique voices/ways they talk.

well...maybe not more race... but at least more uniquness about them... and for the orcs and the other beast characters they should have more inside races to them!!!!

Yea, the story was very weak, but I think giving it a "Traven had other plans" conclusion could actually "fix" the holes a bit


I got a small question on magic, how "available" is magic in the lore of TES?
I mean, in Oblivion every low life bandit can pummel you with fireballs, however the game world doesn't really reflect magic as being THAT easily available.

So, are there any lore based documents that state just HOW available magic is?

I know, I just wanted to clarify that to you, so there's no "oops" in your story thing.

Also, liches can die of violent means, but it's a really hard thing to do. Why else were people so afraid of often dreaded fighting ancient liches in DF and Arena?

Faction advancement was indeed made easier and easier with every sequel.

Perhaps there could be an Oblivion-styled thieves guild random advancement for all factions and this type of advancement alone for others. After a certain number (3 to 5 maybe) of these quests you could decide to progress the story arc for that faction or continue doing random quests. More difficult random quests would appear when the player has achieved higher faction status from faction story arc quests. (Read all x's as random variables decided by a quest generator.)

Say you're in the fighter's guild, you can have a choice of:
A.) Go to x dungeon. Slay x [randomly named] enemy. Return with x proof.
B.) Collect guild dues from x member(s) in x city. Occasionally, x will be waylaid in x dungeon (the reason he/she has not paid dues). Occasionally it will be an easy "collect x" quest.
C.) Gather arms for x guild.
D.) Fight x monsters which are plaguing x city. The monsters may be terrorizing nearby crops, gathering in a dungeon or within the city itself.
E.) Accompany guildmate x on a mission to x where you both must fight x menace.

Mage's guild:
A.) Collect x ingredient for x alchemist which pays the mage's guild for this service.
B.) Find rare item x (book/artifact/magic item) in x dungeon for the enchanter/researcher/guildmaster of x guild/city.
C.) Research x information from x books for x researcher/guildmasteer/etc. The books have to be found (libraries, mage's guilds, bookstores) - as each book is opened the quest advances until all are read.
D.) Create x magic item for x or x city.

Thieves guild:
A.) Fence x value of items. Please make it more than the insignificant amount it was. I had to only rob one house to get about 4 steps forward in the story arc!
B.) Find x item in x dungeon for a private buyer.
C.) Steal x item in x city for a private buyer.

Non-joinable faction random quests:
To improve disposition with a specific city's watch:
A.) Collect x bounty for killing/arresting x [randomly generated criminal] in x hideout (abandoned shack/dungeon/city). Killing requires proof and has lower bounty.

To improve disposition with a daedric cult (to gain favor for the daedric quest):
A.) Collect x (based on the cult)
B.) Kill x undead/bears/innocents (based on the cult)
C.) etc... (as this is entirely based on the cult's peccadilloes.

To improve disposition with an armorer (for better prices):
A.) Collect x chunks of ore from x abandoned mine (or working mine - how come all of the mines in Oblivion were abandoned? There weren't that many Kwama egg miners out of jobs in Morrowind.)
B.) Carry x stock to x armorer in x city, or provide armed escort for the caravan.

Someone mentioned bringing witch covens back (Yes!):
A.) Collect x rare ingredient

And so on and so forth.

While all of these are random and potentially unwieldy, several random spawn points could be placed to be reused for multiple different factions as entirely different random quests. For example some randoms would only use dungeons near towns, some would only use farmlands, some would use random spawn points that are distant remote areas of the map. Perhaps, depending on the random quest that was given, the set decoration could be randomly cycled - i.e. a mage is required for bounty and instead of swords on his shelves are books and alchemy equipment. Perhaps once a random spot is used it is excluded from being used in random quests for a 3 day cycle (a la Oblivion).

I don't think these quests should give a large raise to disposition within the factions (actually I would hope it was incredibly minor - save larger raises for story missions), but should provide a weak alternate to speech-craft and a source of income - in certain cases.

I know there are a lot of people who don't like these sort of "grind" quests. But I feel that doing these quests makes it feel like you are achieving you due when you do eventually gain your promotion in the guild, have the guard of x city say "Well met, friend," (even if others don't even know your name elsewhere) or finally are able to summon the new Madgod for whatever crazy plans he has.

havent been on the forums for a while, which is a surprise....

anyways, there should be like an awesome quest where


The Nine Divines have sent you on a quest to find the 9 Gems - Akatosh's Time Gem, Arkay's Life and Death Gem, Dibella's Beauty Gem, Julianos' Wisdom Gem, Kynareth's Air Gem, Mara's Love Gem, Stendarr's Mercy Gem, Talo's Dragonborn Gem, and Zenithar's Work Gem (of course there is always the Deadric Prince counterpart of the quest). Without these gems the world would suddenly fall into a fatal chaos, eventually melting into nothing, and the people of Tamriel's souls will have no body to posess. With great fear, many citizens return to their hovels, while only your closest friends, brave warriors, and members of every guild will join you. After finding the first 3 gems, havoc starts to wreak. On your way to find the next gem, the forest catches fire, and wild beasts and thier minotaur companions start to attack. You see a faint glimmer in one of the burning trees - Kynareth's Air Gem! You know that fire needs oxygen to burn, and the gem has a ready supply. Your magic is not strong enough to put out the fires. But suddenly, a magic parchment flutters into your hands. Written on it are the words "Dragonrain" and the incantation for the spell. Interesting, Dragonrain - This will put out the fires! But you must be on high ground for it to work. A time limit appears. 10 minutes untill the Air Gem burns and all will be lost. You see a mountain - Dragon's Perch Mountain, they call it. You know what you must do - you must get to the top and cast the spell. As you run the Lord of Minotaurs blocks your path. He swings his Minotauric Warhammer at you but you dodge the attack, and suddenly - SHHHNAAAHP, ERERER, FOOOM, FOOM, FOOM - a burning tree crushes the minotaur lord. You run. There's only 7 minutes until the gem burns. You reach the rocky wall of the mountain, and in an adrenaline rush, you quickly ascend the mountain with your superb climbing skill. There's only two minutes left when you reach the top. You take the scroll out and start chanting. When you get done you wait. Dark clouds start to appear. The flames are spreading at breakneck speed. 30 seconds left, you estimate, until the fire reaches the gem. Then - BOOOOOM! Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - rain appears. The rain falls fast, so fast that the Valley of Endless Forests is already covered with an inch of rain. The fires have been put out, but there's a new danger - your friends, if they dont climb fast enough up the mountain, they will drown. And so will the gem. But luckily, lightning zaps the gem's leafy roost, and sends the gem flying, only to land right in front of you. Uh - oh. The water is already 3 feet deep! However, the agile Khajiit make it up the mountain, and the Argonians won't drown, so they're safe. But the rest drown. But it was the cost - it was your friends, or all of you.




this is cliched and dramatic, i know, but its still awesome >.>

EDIT: sorry, turned it from a quest into a story, hahah :hehe:

Well see the problem with that is, while daedric worship is frowned upon in Tamriel, it would not coax much more than mistrust out of its denizens; especially a worshiper of the nine.

I agree with the prisoner start. I liked the idea, sort of a parallel to Alfred Hitchcock's method of "let your imagination fill the blank spots". Again, adding in the Karma would add to the black and white paint that would tarnish the concept behind the game. However. I do believe there should be consequences to your actions. For instance, maybe you killed that farmer for his gold, or perhaps you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, let the people be the judge of that. I think NPCs should react to what they deduce is right and wrong of your actions. Maybe you will be wrongly accused. Or perhaps a few slipped coins, friends in the right places make that bad reputation disappear.

To make speechcraft useful maybe it should allow you to understand people, Shouldn't there be multiple languages? Speech craft would slowly allow you to talk and understand people better.

More authority as Guild Master

Get randomly generated quests from my desk.
Give npcs quests.
Take as many npcs as follower as I want.
Ability to not be kicked out of guild.
Ability to promote/demote npcs.
Ability to kick/invite npcs.

On the subject of the prisoner start, not every TES game has utilized the prisoner intro. In Daggerfall, you were not a prisoner at all and therefore had complete unfettered freedom to interject whatever backstory you wished. The prisoner intro, though it is still very open to RP possibilities, is still not as open as a completely neutral start.

Now see, you're seeing everything in black and white. The point of the game is to allow the freedom of choice. Any choice you want to make. I agree with what Nighthawk had to say. Maybe you just aren't letting your imagination run free. The story of your character could vary. Take for instance a holy crusader. He could start in the arena, after wards grow tired of the meager competition offered by beasts, move on to the fighters guild. Taking the combined experience he could become a Knight Commander. Well. Lets say this character was a true knight, one of the skills of which was illusion. And his interests in this magic form increased. Well then he'd move on to become something of an Illusionist: striking fear into the hearts of enemies and awe and respect into comrades. Well. A run of bad luck as he is set upon by a band of vampires. Terrified at what he becomes, he then secludes himself, in a life of isolation. But no matter his strong denial for the beast he has become, he must feed. And maybe... He pushes it just a little too far. And he kills his first meal. That would get him into the family he justly thinks he belongs to. A family of murderers.
And wrap.

Just let the imagination flow.
Bethesda allows room for that, there's no point in making such walls now.

Again, it seems widely accepted that more consequences are needed to our actions. But let's not create road blocks out of something as fickle as human, or even elvish, moral.

as a guild leader, you really cant be "kicked out," BUT! you can be voted out, because if your a bad leader you dont get the privelige of being a guild master. 'nuff said

See I've been thinking on this for a while now. Because in all honesty, speechcraft really is a pointless skill.

What if you had a character who was so good with his words, he could convince a group of bandits that his life was worth sparing, perhaps even extend a hand in friendship. Pushing things a little further, what if you were on the wrong side of the law, yet had it good with a few men of means, nobility that would also extend a hand in friendship. Obviously there would be a few complications, as a nobleman is not likely to look out for an infamous bandit, or friend of bandits but I think there is a lot of work that can be done on NPC relations.
On the topic of human relations, what about romantic interests? Combining the two ideas, what if you could seduce your targets. Either through words or other means.

yeah, there SHOULD be more languages, im sure that not all argonians speak cyrodiilic, and alot probably speak.... urhm.... argoni-ish



and now that i think of it, there SHOULD be children, because sometimes when you approach a beggar, they say "Me children will thank ya for yer help..."

which is funny really, because once i approached a beggar and she said "me children are starving... please help" and then when i talked to her she said something about getting a meal for herself...

and welcome to the forums saekar, help yourself to a http://www.uesp.net/w/images/images.new/c/c4/Fishystick.jpg

The Argonians speak http://www.monkeytruth.net/texts/histexploration.shtml as a native language. And I'm not sure about language as implemented in the game; I'm kinda split. On the one hand, I picture KotOR and having non-humans speak native tongues with subtitles to provide translation. That was pretty cool, even if it was recycling very small dialogue snippets. But on the other hand, that's either assuming that the player is a thorough linguist, or it requires the implementation of language skills, necessitating the devs to factor a lot into ways around language barriers to access things.

I don't want children in this game for one reason:
p1: I don't want anyone in TES:V to be essentially-flagged and therefore immortal and unkillable.
p2: If Bethesda is to include children in TES:V, those children will be essentially-flagged and therfore immortal and unkillable. No argument can be made to disprove this premise.
Conclusion: I do not want children in TES:V.

ah yes, hist of course, havent played tes in a while...

and if there is to not be children, then there is to be no more beggars saying they have children

Well, just because game mechanics don't display children in the world doesn't mean that the world should pretend people spring from rocks fully grown.

Perhaps a workaround? If the parents of the children (attached by family faction tag) are both dead (or the potential guardians of the children, should this be a contingency at the death of the parents) the children are permanently deactivated. Otherwise, children flee from drawn weapons and acts of violence...

This allows places to become completely abandoned, if that's what you're concerned about; i.e. a perpetual "Lord of the Flies" town.

I'm on the fence regarding essentials. I like that they are there if there are no workarounds for important quests. Side-quests I think should be broken, however, if the player chooses to kill an NPC reflecting the choices made by the character in shaping his or her world.

id love to be made out of stone... as long as i could move, breathe, and do everything else a normal person could do...

It's not a matter of peripheral effects of leftover NPCs. It's the blanket artificiality of having any NPC, whatsoever, that cannot be killed. It's part of the allure of the open-world philosophy. Would we be accepting if we had houses we couldn't enter, doors we couldn't open, items we couldn't loot? The game should not dictate artificial boundaries to me. Some artificial boundaries are somewhat understandable, even if they are still terrible - the invisible "You cannot go further, turn back now" border in Cyrodiil to account for no natural boundaries, for example. But NPCs and all the ways they can be interacted with is a higher and more poignant detail than world boundaries that simply prevent the player from seeing the cardboard behind the backdrops.

Further, as several quests in Oblivion illustrate, having the ability to flag people as immortal in your world largely affects how you design quests around them, and how believable those quests or settings actually are. Take escorting Captain Burd through the Oblivion gate, for instance. Instead of the quest-designer buffing the NPC group's skills, or adequately prepping them for their ordeal with enchanted weapons, potions, etc, for better survival, or allowing the player to supply the NPC group, or better managing the challenges the NPC group will face from within the gate, they just flag Burd (and only Burd) as immortal. This is not only a design cop-out, it breaks immersion for all the number of times Burd drops unconscious after taking massive axe-swipes from a Xivali, only to stagger back up again. And it's also annoying as hell to have to tackle everything yourself because you one immortal companion keeps getting knocked out and is so ill-prepared.

Children, by the discussion rules of the forum and by Bethesda indication via FO3, have to be essentially-flagged. On principle, I then must oppose children in the game, because they will contribute to a system of immortality that is stunting design, stunting immersion, and stunting believability.

agreed, i dont see what ESRB has against child-murdering, its really no different from advlt-murdering; and it does take away from realism and many other aspects; id rather be killed by a blow from a warhammer than just to get knocked down, get up, and take the pain again