Sorry if out of the whole thing i pick that but... why? They pretty much handle the same, why make them separate? If it's just to have MORE skills to chose from lets better do it in a way that makes sense, bunch things that handle similar together while separating those that DON'T handle similar.

For example, a hatchet and a club, pretty similar handling, put them together. However, a hatchet and a big war axe... VERY different handling, both axes, yea, but handling a hatchet does not enable you to weild a war axe.
However again, a big war axe DOES handle similar to a two handed sword so those could go together.
But a two handed sword is again quite different from handling a dagger so those should go separate.


So split them where it makes sense and merge them where it makes sense. Just having a skill called "Axe" or "Blunt" isn't a logical separation as what you have is a very broad group of items which all handle differently. Better look at how you handle them and split it by that.

What I'm trying to say is, there should be more skills for melee weapons. Not just "blunt" and "blade". I said Axe and Mace should be seperated just because it was like that in previous TES installments. Weapons were categorized with their edges, but your club- hatchet- two handed axe example was very well put and handling can be a better criterion for weapon types than their edges.

So instead of "Sword, Dagger, Axe, Mace" there can be "Slashing, Stabbing, Two Handed, whatever"

Better than Blunt and Blade, either way.

I meantioned this in another thread but i think its very relevant, You should be able to purchase property, maybe even real estate. I find that in most of the TES games you end up with a S***ton of gold and nothing to do with it, so why not make an option of being a land or even a business owner, and the property would have certain expenses that if you do not meet you get evicted.

This could be done very simply without the need for new categories simply by creating "subgenres" of which each weapon skill is a combination. The whole set of different blade styles could be created simply with five blade specifications:

weight
length
blunt (%) (related to how far out the average mass of the blade is)
Blade(%) (how "sharp" the weapon is)
Axe (%) (i.e. proportional to weapon length/blade length)

Each weapon would require a different set of skills to increase, and so would change which sets of skills increase the most.

Things like reverb and echo are easy to implement with things like EAX 4.0 and audio hardware acceleration which is really important for realism.

I want to see more realistic wildlife. The stock animals in oblivion either always attacked or always fled. Bears should not be aggressive but should protect their young and sleeping ground/area, We need proper schools of fish in the ocean which can be caught via net/spear/rod, foxes should not be obvious but wiley stealing peoples rubbish and what not, I would like to see some more distinct birds unique to tamriel, Basic farm animals such as chickens, goats, and pigs are an obvious must they help create believablility in the world. I'm pretty sure cyrodiil would get sick of eating sheep and deer, which is all it has at the moment

This is one of the best speechcraft ideas I've heard ever.
:D

Throw an axe out the window. Have Heavy/Medium/Light/ranged weapons. All big 2 handed weapons woud be big weapons, swords/axes/maces would be medium weapons, light weapons would be daggers/tomahawks etc. ... wait isnt it like that in NWN? Id rather have that then being limited to 3 weapons.

this has probably been said 1000 times,
but Arena must come back,
and, to have unlimited PvP fights. (lower the winnings)
Not, me vs creatures, after you beat the top guy.
Also, team battles, where you could have 5 or so with & against you.
There is so much you can do with the arena.
Lots of potential

Well i've been stumbling over a old quote from before Oblivion came out that kinda worries me:



... what the hell have the been smoking???

Honestly, if that's REALLY their opinion i have low hopes for future TES games...

If that is their expectation, I expect to hear Daggerfall and Morrowind veterans praising Oblivion as one of the best games of all time... after the new game comes out.

LOL, Todd Howard. The less I speak about him, the better. My only consolation is that his pathetic vision doesn't reflect Bethesda's vision.

I think the NPC combat situation could be better. It's too much chaos for the "well trained soldiers"

A perfect example would be the quest "Battle for Bruma", in which the most well trained soldiers of Cyrodiil fight the Daedra. The Daedric creatures fit the chaotic battle style, but the Kynmarhcers are too well trained to just be animalistic. I definately think that more 1-1 NPC action should take place, rather than every man for himself.

_______________________________________________________-

Also, I believe that there should be a wider range of weapons. Not just strictly small/big/overlyhuge. Also make weapons that can fit you battle style more effictively.

Ex. I like the idea of a heavy weapon for damage, however, I believe ranged is just as important. However, I can't constantly swich between the two, so we meet in the middle. (Idea) The spear: a moderate weapon that can be used as a ranged weapon or a melee weapon along with a shield.

Todd had more influence on Morrowind than he did Oblivion. In Morrowind, he was Lead Designer. In Oblivion, he'd moved up to producer and Ken Rolston took Lead Designer. While, yeah, that quote's pretty bad, I don't think it just represented his mindset at the time: Bethesda themselves went through a pretty weird stage that appears to have been somewhat dispelled with FO3. But the fact remains that Todd brought me Morrowind. I can't think he's too far gone from that.

Todd>Ken...

As I've said before; I believe it was an experimental stage. "Hey, what if we went back to what Daggerfall was like, but with our modern tech?" Except they really really really missed the mark. Fallout 3 was so awesome for me because it almost (I mean seriously, it did) felt like I was playing Morrowind. It had that quirky attitude and serious, yet sometimes hilarious, style. Believable yet over the top. That really was the problem with Oblivion. It just felt so mundane, like I'd played it a million times before (because we have. It's setting could be mistaken for just about any other generic fantasy setting).

On topic: I think it's about time we got passed the singular weapons and armor stage. What about equipment? I want to see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolas, throwing nets, poison darts (lethal or non-lethal), grappling hooks, trip wires (which could be used for anything from tripping people, strangling people, or used to create a trip for a trap), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caltrop, and other such tricks and useful NON-MAGICAL equipment.

Really, that is what I want. Non-magical equipment that allows one to do a similar thing to magic but without needing any sort of skill in it or needing an expensive or short lasting potion. If we have climbing back into the game, grappling hooks would practically be a necessity for those without either climbing or levitation, or could augment a climbers skill for speedy climbing. Other items like non-lethal poison, bolas, and nets could allow for capture of people (which could be a good addition to the small list of usual quest objectives of kill, get item, or place item), while those without need of capturing people could use them to slow down or immobilize runners for a speedy kill. Caltrops are an obvious addition, in my opinion, with the marathon runner guards. When I played a thief in Oblivion, I felt very stealthy, but I could not fight at all, despite a high light armor and blade skill (but I blame level scaling for that. I could backstab a non-NPC enemy and they wouldn't die, even after dozens of hits). Caltrops and trip wires could really add to the meaning and feeling of what it IS to be a thief or assassin. If they're supposed to be prepared for any situation, why is their only option stealth and a poison apple?

well i'm not sure if someone already posted this, but what about thieves? Honestly theres nothing to steal of value exept in the castles, and that only grabs you maybe 400-500 gold(and thats from pickpocketing the count and countess). There should be better things to steal. I'm always trying to find stuff to take, but im not going to steal a siver pitcher thats worth like 5 gold. There should be worth while stuff to steal. And merchants wont but stolen stuff. How does the shop owner in Cheydinhal know i stole a silver dagger from Skingrad? I liked Morrowinds goods better since you could steal potentially thousands of dollars of stuff, not in oblivion where the most you can pocket is around 1000 gold from 3 castles.

Also, archery is almost pointless inside a cave or dungeon where bandits and trolls and the like are charging you at an alarming rate. If your lucky you will MAYBE get one or two arrows on them, and then the arrows only take like a sixth of there health down. I get so angry when I've shot about 5 arrows into a bandits face and neck, and they're still swinging a 2-handed daedric ax at me. Injury should be according to where you hit the enemy. I want to see a choking bandit when ive shoot an arrow through his neck, and i would like to see a speed reduced enemy walking(or limping) towards me with an arrow in his leg. It should be so an iron arrow has a less likely chance of piercing a steel cuirass. while a daedric arrow will rip through through the steel like paper. In the next Elder Scrolls, i would really like it if archery didn't consist of just running in circles and shooting the enemy. I've tried to stand my ground while using archery, and the bandit just staggers me, and then i have to wait 3 seconds until i can get a shoot off that would be the equivalent as throwing a rock him.The sneak system should be overall more fair. The part about animals being a lot harder to sneak past, ok. But sneak character's are domed when trying to sneak past even a bandit. Sneak should be improved.

It's been a while since I last popped my this up here, so:

The Guild Ideas Post

Overview

There are three major changes I want to see for all guilds:

-First, each guild should have both the overarching story that Oblivion's guilds had, as well as the more everyday duties present in Morrowind's. The regular duties make the guilds feel like actual guilds, while having a story make the guilds more interesting, and gets the player more invested in them. Regular duties would include both randomly generated and hand-made quests

-Second, you don't get to be the guildmaster. It doesn't make much sense for the newest recruit to become the leader a mere few weeks after joining; besides, the guildleader logically ought to be spending a fair amount of the day pushing paper, which is hardly compelling player content. So, the player can rise high in the guild, perhaps even being second only to the guildmaster, but you don't get to be the leader. Besides, leaving the guildmaster in place gives you a superior who can assign you randomly generated quests.

-Third, in-guild specialization. After reaching a certain point in any guild, you will be asked to specialize in one branch of the guild, and you will rise in rank in that specific branch. Your choice of specialization determines the kind of regular duties you get, while the overall story of the guild remains the same.

Fighter's Guild

Oblivion's Fighter's Guild actually came closest to the structure I'd like for the next game's guild; you did a couple ordinary duties, and then you got a main story quest, then a couple more duties, then another story quest. I'd just like to see each guild be larger. Of course, I'd like something more complex than 'mercenaries fight bad mercenaries' for the story. The specializations would be based on the type of jobs you prefer to take:

Branches

-Bounty Hunter: people who track and capture criminals, runaway debtors, and so on.

-Thief Catcher: an urban mercenary paid to catch or kill thieves, or protect shops. Would involve more 'playing detective' than bounty hunters do.

-Retrieval Expert: paid to retrieve items of any sort, usually from dungeons, or remote stretches of wilderness.

-Gladiator: wealthy patrons are sometimes willing to hire skilled warriors to fight for them in the local arenas and fight pits.

-Soldier: guild members who work in the mercenary companies that serve with local armed forces

The Mage's Guild

First and foremost, magic really needs to be required in the Mage's Guild questlines. And not just requiring a certain rank of skill to advance, but quests that require the use of specific spells; the pillar in the alyeid ruin in Oblivion was a good start, but it needs to be more common than that. There also needs to be a balance in the types of quests: both the overarching story of Oblivion's guild, and the multitude of more everyday duties that made up the guild quests in Morrowind.

I would repeat Oblivion's system of each branch of the Mage's Guild being devoted to a different school of magic, and these would be the branches that you would have to devote yourself to at some point. Each branch would have a different look, and different types of duties that they focus on. Here's what I'm thinking for each school:

Branches

-Destruction: The destruction guildhall basically serves as a magical equivalent to the Fighter's Guild, providing arcane mercenaries to those who need something blown up. Their guildhall is basically built like a small fortress (although, intended more to contain the energies the mages throw around, rather than to keep anything out), containing targets, training yards, and a dueling circle enchanted to let combatants throw dangerous magic at one another, without the threat of anyone dying.

-Alteration: with their range of magic designed for getting into places, such as flight, waterbreathing, and cracking locks, alteration specialists make the perfect explorers, spelunkers, and dungeon delvers. Because of this, the Alteration guildhall serves as the Guild's archeologists, using their skills to pick their way through ancient ruins searching for valuable artifacts and lore. Their guildhall is a tall spire packed with the various odds and ends they've pulled from numerous sites over the years. While the tower has stairs for visitors and apprentices, most mages get around by using levitation.

-Restoration: predictably enough, restoration specialists serve as healers in the province, using magic and concocting rare medicines to help the ill. Their guildhall serves as a large hospital, with the ground floor given over to patient care.

-Illusion: with their ability to sway minds and slip quietly into just about anyplace, illusionists thrive on playing politics, and thus serve the dual role of the public face of the guild, and acting as spies. Whether it's slipping into a party to hob-nob with nobles and "influence" their policies in favor of the guild, or getting into well-guarded places where they can "just happen" to overhear a key bit of information, illusionists work to keep public opinion in favor of the guild. At first glance, the illusion guildhall appears to be the height of opulence, but the private quarters of the mages seem to defy reason: the dunmer's room appears to be straight out of a Telvanni mushroom tower, the khajitt's room to all appearance seems to be the interior of a desert nomad's tent, and so on. Those who can pierce illusions can see that the guildhall is in reality a plain, rather simple affair that the mages have decorated entirely with illusion.

-Conjuration: with their extensive study of Oblivion, conjurors have been tasked with keeping track of the machinations of the Daedra Lords, as well as the cults in their service, and to curb those plans when needed. Predictably enough, their guildhall is full of Daedra; summoned skamps perform the menial tasks around the hall, and the hall also contains a "zoo" of all Daedra breeds bound in binding circles for the study of the apprentices.

-Mysticism: mystics study some of the least understood aspects of magic. Usually, mystics lead an almost monastic lifestyle, pursuing their studies, but they always seek news of odd supernatural events, that they might learn from them. Some of the most powerful of these mages are able to sense the buildup to some of these events, and send members to witness it, including things such as apotheosis, the dragon break, and so on. Their guildhall is the stereotypical mountaintop monastery.

*Necromancy: after the events concerning the King of Worms in Cyrodiil, necromancy isn't exactly in the good graces of any provincial branch of the Mage's Guild. There's no hard and fast rule against necromancy, and you won't face penalties for using its spells, but there's no official support for the school: no guildhall, and no training in any of the spells.

Thieves Guild

The thieves guild was pretty good in Oblivion, but it could stand to be a little less Robin Hood. I do like that they frowned on killing on the job, and want to see that continued (at least, in most cases). The specializations for the thieves guild are based on the types of jobs they take. I had contemplated making pick-pocketing one of these specializations, but I think that might be too narrow a concept to provide a range of quests, so I think pick pocketing would be a common duty for newer members. So, I'm thinking the following for specializations:

Branches

-Burglars: thieves that specialize in breaking into buildings and snatching the contents.

-Smugglers: focus on obtaining illicit goods, and getting them in and out of cities.

-Spies: rather than stealing goods, the thieves guild's spies seek out information that can be sold to interested parties.

-Enforcers: the rare exception to the guild's usual rules against excessive violence. The thieves guild frowns upon independent thieves, and enforcers exist to let those independents know just how much they're frowned upon.

Church of the Nine Divines

I never really played the Imperial Cult in Morrowind, but I'd assume that'd be a good place to look for inspiration. Predictably, you would be asked to enter into the services of one of the divines:

Branches

-Akatosh: Dragon God of Time
-Talos: God of the Empire
-Arkay: God of Life and Death
-Julianos: God of Knowledge
-Kynareth: Goddess of Air
-Zenithar: God of Commerce
-Stendarr: God of Mercy
-Mara: Goddess of Love
-Dibella: Goddess of Beauty

Dark Brotherhood

As before, this is the guild of assassins. Now that it's been made part of their mythos in Oblivion, Sithis worship should remain part of the guild, but it should also be shown that there are plenty of members who are simply in it for the money, or the love of killing.

Branches

-Saboteurs: when someone needs to be killed, and it needs to look like an accident, these are the people who are assigned. Saboteurs are masters of misdirection in their killings.

-Slayers: assassins used for more straightforward killing. Many slayers specialize in stealth, going unseen about their jobs, and only taking the life their being paid for, while others are more straightforward, and live for widescale slaughter.

-The Keepers: the priesthood of the Brotherhood's dread patron. They serve the spiritual needs of the Brotherhood, and of course, take lives in the name of Sithis.

-The Crimson Scars: named for a traitorous group that arose in the Brotherhood in Cyrodiil, the Crimson Scars are made exclusively of vampires. The Scars take on some of the most difficult assignments, ones where their unique abilities are the most useful.

Order of Eternal Life

Crappy name, I know, but it gets the point across.

It's been a common request to have a necromancer guild of some sort in the next game; this is my attempt at one that, while not exactly kittens and rainbows, at least isn't of the unambiguous "Mwahahah" evil variety. I also found that with a pure necromancer guild, I just couldn't get the kind of in-guild specialization that the Mage's Guild has in the above paragraphs, and which I wanted here as well, so this goes in a slightly broader direction than just necromancers.

The Order of Eternal Life is, as might be expected, a collection of magic-users and scholars who have come together for once purpose: to achieve immortality. While not intrinsically evil, these people do tend to be of the 'ends justify the means' mentality, and are perfectly willing to break a few eggs, if it will bring their studies one step closer to their ultimate goal. On top of the numerous mortal mages, the Order includes in its ranks such beings as vampires and liches, who are happily accepted in hopes that studying them will help bring about better forms of immortality (or to those who don't mind the downsides, provide a quick means of achieving their goal). The Order is ruled by a council of those rare few who have actually achieved immortality. Even though they have discovered how to become immortal, they don't share that info with just anybody, claiming that one must prove themselves worthy of such of gift (although the truth is probably that they just don't want to share power, if they don't have to).

While they all seek eternal life, the members of the Order differ on the preferred means of achieving it. Newer members of the Order will be expected to choose a specific school of magic that they will focus their studies on, from the following:

Branches

-Necromancy: the most common school in the Order, as necromancers don't have the support of the Mage's Guild that the practitioners of the other schools could call on, if they desired. Necromancers believe that by studying the magic of death, that they might one day conquer it. The path to immortality for them is lichdom, undeath that allows them to retain their mind and self, unlike the other undead.

-Conjuration: conjurors hope that by studying the immortal daedra, that they may in time become like them. They hope to find a way by which they can leave behind their humanity, and become daedra.

-Restoration: restoration has many spells designed to change the caster's body, making them stronger or faster, or even changing form entirely into another creature. It is by this means that restoration-specialists in the Order hope to achieve everlasting life: they hope to find the 'perfect form', and by using magic to shapechange into that form, they could live forever.

-Mysticism: mystics study magic that alters the flow of time, and through this, they hope to alter time to cause their bodies to cease aging, or at least slow it. Mysticism also deals with magic of the soul, and being able to free their perceptions of their body, which some mystics in the Order hope can be used to free themselves from being tied to just one body.

Vampire Clans and Lycanthrope Packs

These would be an exception to the whole specialization thing. Instead of starting off as a generic member and specializing, you would simply join the specific clan for the type of vampire you became, or the pack for the breed of lycanthrope you are.

Something Local

The place where Oblivion really fell short when it came to guilds, was that it had no guilds that were uniquely Cyrodilic, this is what TESV needs to have. Every province has something unique that could work as a guild or faction: Morrowind has the Houses, the Temple, and the Morag Tong; Cyrodiil had the courts of the different counts (or could have been condensed into just the Colovian and Nibenean courts), and you can't swing a dead cat in High Rock without hitting a local knightly order.

If we assume Skyrim as the next setting, I would go for groups such as the warrior societies backing the major Skyrim kings, the Cult of Shor, and the Tongues.

I like the sound of this; change the name of some of the weapon categories. I wouldn't expect a lumberjack to know how to proficiently fight with a 2-handed sword just by chopping down trees with a 2-handed axe. Plus you can't readily chop down a tree with a 2-handed mace or sword, so I would think each would have it's own skill set.


In Morrowind we had trapped locks, plus you could lock your own stuff too. So, before Oblivion came out, I was hoping that maybe we could even get to set our own traps next. What happens, we don't even get to lock our own stuff in Oblivion. I hope Beth brings back locking stuff AND adds the ability to set traps, magical and non-magical.

Another idea I would like to see is being able to spend magicka points to enchant a parchment for an one time use later in the game. Basically, the ability to make your own magic scrolls.

Fighters gulid is also responsible for suppling provesions for mines and camps i think.

Forget the no leader... Randomly generated quests can be given to you by your assistant.

Continuing a discussion from http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=1051564&view=findpost&p=15275312:

No, not for the game. But you were for the logical constraints of the world. I raise the same objections as before: it's nonsensical to think that a person can become the head of the Mages Guild with magical skills at 5, no matter how much grunt work you do for them. If you're a BA warrior who does their dirty work for them, then you might as well be a skilled Fighters Guild mercenary they've hired, and once you're done with your overarching task, they pay you a nice sum of gold and then shoo you away. They're sure not going to say, "Golly! You're so good with a blade despite not knowing a lick about the things that are core to what our whole guild's about! How about you lead us and make brilliant executive decisions based on your lack of knowledge!" It's further nonsensical to think that you can join the Dark Brotherhood and the more mainstream Fighters and Mages guild without at least some consequences. I'm not saying they should be mutually exclusive, just that certain things have to be accounted for to pull it off. Rather like joining both the Mages Guild and House Telvanni in Morrowind; they were both enemies and rising in rank with one cause even more dislike with the other, but the player could still pull it off with some work.

In short, yes, factions should react to each other, guilds should enforce requirements for their ranks, and the player should have to exert a bit of effort to become the end-all-be-all jack-of-all-trades.


:whisper: A game is not a game without hoop-jumping...:whisper:
Besides, you're over-exaggerating. Morrowind's guild requirements were incredibly lenient, yet still enough to have you invest into getting better. Out of all their favorite skills for the guild in question, to be the head honcho of that guild, you only had to have one of those favored skills at 90, one at 35, and their two favored attributes at 35. Is one favored skill at 90 really too much to ask for someone running the whole show? Is that such a massive and world-ending hoop to jump through? I suppose it might be for the guy who wants to run right through the faction quests at level one and become the master of everything within a matter of 20 hours. But I've already provided reasons for why believability in the world is more important to catering to "that guy." Bethesda can have their cake and eat it too. They can provide factional complexity and still reap in more profits. Damaging your world for the sake of "that guy" isn't a long-term successful sales model for the genre they are aiming at. It might work for another title or two. But eventually, the game is going to become so hollow and unrealistic that it will undermine itself.

And again, it's not like we're demanding castration as the price for guild advancement, here. It's one skill. At 90. To lead the whole faction. Significantly less to get into the mid ranks.


Well, reintroducing factional disputes and requirements would put us on the road to getting back there.
You make a lot of choices in the game. What race/class/birthsign you want. Who you align yourself with. What dungeons you raid. What equipment you purchase. Whether or not to help people. Whether to screw people if given the opportunity. While it might not be the epitome of dire consequences, every mechanic you engage in is a choice in some form. And every outcome from those mechanics are consequences. A lot of the choice and consequence vanished with the Cyrodiilic jungles. I'd like it back.


Fair enough. I'm inclined to agree with you there. Though I doubt Bethesda will agree with either of us; they just can't help themselves in allowing you the freedom to rise to the top. And so, if they are going to allow that freedom, I want there to be mechanics in place that allow the player to properly earn it.


Those aren't Bethesda's target market, and if they still think they are, then they're deluding themselves. While I'm all for making these games more accessible, I'm not OK with sacrificing depth, immersion, and believability for the sake of that accessibility. You can have both. One doesn't need to cannibalize off the other.

I know this is old but I feel as if I really want to adress this.

As has been said, many people just make one chracter and do everything with them, which is of course, out of role play. These are role playing games after all and I think there should be certain rules such as what Bestheda did with the Knights of the Nine, or somthing as what the poster about said about reqierments.

Have critical strike,medical and a few other skills from Daggerfall.

I have not played Daggerfall. What is the Medical Skill?

I <3 U