TESV Ideas and Suggestions #135

Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:33 am

...making evil feel evil...

A small problem with "good and evil" choices is that evil usually boils down to http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KickTheDog moments.
Generally there should be no "good and evil choices" but really just choice and consequence. After all a decission might mean good for one side but bad for the other.

And even those choices that have a "moral right and wrong" it should not say "this choice was evil and you get punished for it". For example, there is a corrupt tax collector who demands more than necessary and keeps the difference, you can confront him about it and actually decide to keep it a secret if you get 50% of the difference. If NOBODY ever found out about it there are no negative consequences for you out of this other than people not being grateful towards you for solving it.
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Adam Baumgartner
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:22 pm

A small problem with "good and evil" choices is that evil usually boils down to http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KickTheDog moments.
Generally there should be no "good and evil choices" but really just choice and consequence. After all a decission might mean good for one side but bad for the other.

Of course. It was mainly phrased that way because, inevitably, when it's all up to player choice there will still be plentiful amounts of dog-kicking. I'm sure bored players have caused the death of many, many innocent fake people in Oblivion. The "evil" referred to is basically people being a jerk because they can, the cartoon evil of villains doing "bad things" just because they love being evil. There's no benefit for anyone and no belief that good is being done by anyone, just a lot of pushing old people down the stairs. I don't want "good or evil" choices as presented by the game...the point was that when the player has that option, either by their choice or the game's, there are generally no qualms with it because the game doesn't do a good job of presenting bad things as BAD.
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NAtIVe GOddess
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:16 am

A few street musicians would be nice. Or some playing in a bar somewhere.

I agree, i want to see a bard playing in the bar or something.

^my first ever post :)
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Britney Lopez
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:37 am

Of course. It was mainly phrased that way because, inevitably, when it's all up to player choice there will still be plentiful amounts of dog-kicking. I'm sure bored players have caused the death of many, many innocent fake people in Oblivion. The "evil" referred to is basically people being a jerk because they can, the cartoon evil of villains doing "bad things" just because they love being evil. There's no benefit for anyone and no belief that good is being done by anyone, just a lot of pushing old people down the stairs. I don't want "good or evil" choices as presented by the game...the point was that when the player has that option, either by their choice or the game's, there are generally no qualms with it because the game doesn't do a good job of presenting bad things as BAD.

Yea they really need to think different, NOT "This side does bad things and this tries to prevent it" but rather "what goals does this side have that conflict with the other". Having a storyline where both (or several) sides actually have very good points and it's not instantly clear which one you should follow makes a much more interesting game.

I agree, i want to see a bard playing in the bar or something.

^my first ever post :)

Oh, welcome to the forum then, http://www.uesp.net/w/images/Fishystick.jpg... oh apparantly the page is down right now, well, here's your fishystick link at least :)
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Sunny Under
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:54 pm

I don't think it's impossible, i actually think it's NECESSARY for a game like that. Who would want hundrets of NPCs are are nothing more than walking dull. They where nothing more than actors wearing bad masks and had no time to learn their characters, no real expressionas or emotions, just saying my lines and done.
Honestly, which NPCs did you really care for after having delt with their missions? Once nothing was left to do they could have just as well dissapread.

And yea, i forgot that part... still take a look at that game, it did some GREAT things.

Well, I cared for the characters and made sure they didn't die because when you kill someone in the game, that is pretty much a chunk out of Cyrodiils population :D
Like 50 real engaging-with-quests- characters and when you kill one the world seems much more empty...
But either way, Oblivion was empty, every part of the imperial CITY had less people than some settlements.
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Siidney
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:26 pm

Boats, that sail, boats that move. The boats in Oblivion were just static, like buildings. I wanna row a boat into the midle of lake rumare and catch slaughter fish. or take a nice scenic tour on a boat down river, and watch all the imps toss fire balls at me as a float past.

Hahahah, the funny thing is, the middle of lake rumare is the IC, which is not atlantis, it is land
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vicki kitterman
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:57 pm

Well, I cared for the characters and made sure they didn't die because when you kill someone in the game, that is pretty much a chunk out of Cyrodiils population :D
Like 50 real engaging-with-quests- characters and when you kill one the world seems much more empty...
But either way, Oblivion was empty, every part of the imperial CITY had less people than some settlements.

Yea, there where FAR to few NPCs and the towns didn't seem realistic at all.
They simply NEED more NPCs and again, people will say "many NPCs mean they ill be flat", NO that doesn't have to be. They can really make thousands of NPCs and have each of them have a personality, what they need first is a randomizer that can set a personality by factors.

I think the really big problem in that field is the voice acting and with that the depth of conversations. Oblivions fully voiced dialoges where a nice try but the amount of conversation options was significantly lower than morrowinds. Yea, yea, walking encyclopedias, i know, but at least some of them could tell you a backstory.

So in total:
-More NPCs
-NPC personality randomizer
-More dialoge options
-Bigger cities

I'd say to detail them they should again use the "team up" method, each team taking care of fine tuning one settlements NPC personalities instead of doing it all in one bulk.
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Catharine Krupinski
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 12:56 pm

If giving a random personality to thousands of NPCs is too much of a task, simply give personalities and backstories to some of the NPCs with the rest of them having randomized non-scripted AI to do whatever in cities.
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Stephani Silva
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:51 pm

Yea, there where FAR to few NPCs and the towns didn't seem realistic at all.
They simply NEED more NPCs and again, people will say "many NPCs mean they ill be flat", NO that doesn't have to be. They can really make thousands of NPCs and have each of them have a personality, what they need first is a randomizer that can set a personality by factors.

I think the really big problem in that field is the voice acting and with that the depth of conversations. Oblivions fully voiced dialoges where a nice try but the amount of conversation options was significantly lower than morrowinds. Yea, yea, walking encyclopedias, i know, but at least some of them could tell you a backstory.

Not just that and more options, either. For random factors to better convey personality I think the dialogue system in general needs some restructuring. With Morrowind you had the encyclopedias which had no reaction variety; everyone says the same thing, your reactions to them are all the same thing. Oblivion has only a handful of topics and a few pre-made responses, which robs personality from the NPC *and* the player. What I think would work better is for the player to have their list of keywords - things that can be brought up in conversation - and buttons to set the tone. For example, setting the tone to "?", then selecting "Gray Fox," to mean that you're asking about the Gray Fox. Or, set the tone to "!" to tell someone about whatever you've heard about the Gray Fox. An NPC created with really low disposition toward the Thieves Guild might go into an angry rant when you ask, or cut you off with an "I don't want to hear about it" if you try to talk about them. A setup like that would not only allow for more personality from NPC's that comes out in conversation (instead of the Oblivion method of immediately throwing their personality at you, because there isn't really any conversation after), but puts a lot more potential in the player's hands. The ability to TELL things to NPC's is sorely lacking; all you can really do is ask and respond. I want to infiltrate a faction, learn their secrets, and bring the info to someone who will react to it...something I'd planned the moment I first saw a Gray Fox poster, only to sadly discover I had zero choices in the matter.
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Yung Prince
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 11:45 am

Hello,
Please look into what I have to say:
Me and everyone at work have never played a game that gave us a really life sort of characteristics eg, Like you need to buy food to eat or drink to survive in order to do that you need coins or to explore for food or hunt! This would give the game its lift it needs and what about you need sleep sometime or you pass out? Why not add a virus that makes you sick and the only way you can fix it is that you can buy the cure or make it with potion making skill?

But my final thing I would love to see is: that it should be hard to find money like the only way to get is stealing to survive, joining guilds for money looking treasures in ruins and selling what you find, And don't for get jobs. It keeps the game good if you had some of these features gives you that feeling that you need survive first then do what you want after you had something to eat!

This you would have to put this on you to do list!

Jack


My Last Idea svcked!
Heres a new one I have always wanted to be a trader give some horse and carts riding though the streets! Make it so that you can own one too trade with other town/citys like a carvaner it fun as! come on!
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Hairul Hafis
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:11 pm

I loved the bards and jugglers in The Witcher. Took some time off to watch them play. It was nice. Then I realised theres no skill in it and the juggler would never drop the ball because after all its a compuiter game and hes animated like that, hes not having to use physics or anything of the sort. Still it was nice that they were in the game and provided a little entertainment that wasnt just killing things.
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Karen anwyn Green
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:57 pm

A little word on music (again), as much as it seems "unlike" for a game ina fantasy setting, go AWAY from orchestral music.

Honestly, work the music simpler. The big orchestral sound is more distracting than it is immersing, it's more jumping around waving arms saying "LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME, OVER HERE".
A friend recently sent me some music he played just on his guitar and that was great, even if he's still a beginner with it.

One thing you may wanna keep in mind, where do you hear the bombastic orchestral music most? Sure fantasy films like LotR but mostly during those big, panorama scenes where all they do is walk left to right. And music between games and moves is WAY different topics, you just can't make music for a movie, then put it in a game and expect it to work flawlessly.

Again my call goes out to Jeremy Soule if he makes the next games music, look back at what you did in Secret of Evermore with the limited tools you had, it was WAY more fitting than Oblivions orchestral sounds. Work simpler and try to achieve the mood with FEWER tools, not overload it with more.
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Kitana Lucas
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:50 am

tes needs more argonians and less argonian bloodwine. that 1 bloodwine was enough to make me sad...

perhaps more realistic stores. in the imperial city whenever i walk into a store nobody is there but the vendor. wtf? do these people not even get costumers? alchemy shops weapon dealers armor traders clothiers fletchers and bowyers? and perhaps some realistic farms. there might be a boar farm, wheat farm, hops farm, apple farm, eel ponds etc. and when the farmers harvest their produce theyd take it down to a granary, which would have guards to discourage pesky thieves?
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Sarah Evason
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:49 am

tes needs more argonians and less argonian bloodwine. that 1 bloodwine was enough to make me sad...

perhaps more realistic stores. in the imperial city whenever i walk into a store nobody is there but the vendor. wtf? do these people not even get costumers? alchemy shops weapon dealers armor traders clothiers fletchers and bowyers? and perhaps some realistic farms. there might be a boar farm, wheat farm, hops farm, apple farm, eel ponds etc. and when the farmers harvest their produce theyd take it down to a granary, which would have guards to discourage pesky thieves?


I don't know what game your playing, but I was always running into NPC's in the stores. They were always the same NPC's... but they were still there. If you go to the Inn in the market district at a certain time, there are a handful of NPC's there. And I'm always running into someone when I go into the Gilded Carafe.

I think they need to do more than just wander around though and stand around otherwise.... I want to see dynamic socialization, economies and relationships among the NPC's.
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Taylah Haines
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:51 am

I don't know what game your playing, but I was always running into NPC's in the stores. They were always the same NPC's... but they were still there. If you go to the Inn in the market district at a certain time, there are a handful of NPC's there. And I'm always running into someone when I go into the Gilded Carafe.

I think they need to do more than just wander around though and stand around otherwise.... I want to see dynamic socialization, economies and relationships among the NPC's.

then my game must be broken, because almost every store (not including inns and taverns) was empty

tabards, tabards, where for art thou tabards?

ooh, how about designable family crests. id love to see my awesome coat-of-arms.

and whats the deal about not being able to ride horses into cities? there were always horseback guards in the middle ages.... i believe
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BRAD MONTGOMERY
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:21 am

I would love to have an underworld city. I don't think I seen one in any computer game. Who knows, maybe an Argoinain town perhaps?
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J.P loves
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:16 am

I would like to be able to wear a ring on each finger and multiple amulets. Make a real MR T character. THey would have to tweak the enchantments a little so as not to overbalance the game. Dammit Beth, I've got ten fingers!
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Darian Ennels
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:29 am

They should look at Dragon Age's dialogue system and learn something from that. That is one of the best dialogues i've ever seen, much better than the dead, slow, boring and unimmersive dialogues of oblivion.
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Darrell Fawcett
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:15 am

A little word on music (again), as much as it seems "unlike" for a game ina fantasy setting, go AWAY from orchestral music.

Honestly, work the music simpler. The big orchestral sound is more distracting than it is immersing, it's more jumping around waving arms saying "LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME, OVER HERE".
A friend recently sent me some music he played just on his guitar and that was great, even if he's still a beginner with it.

One thing you may wanna keep in mind, where do you hear the bombastic orchestral music most? Sure fantasy films like LotR but mostly during those big, panorama scenes where all they do is walk left to right. And music between games and moves is WAY different topics, you just can't make music for a movie, then put it in a game and expect it to work flawlessly.

Again my call goes out to Jeremy Soule if he makes the next games music, look back at what you did in Secret of Evermore with the limited tools you had, it was WAY more fitting than Oblivions orchestral sounds. Work simpler and try to achieve the mood with FEWER tools, not overload it with more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHDRwWG5-lQ Simple, yet atmospheric. It needs to have a constant presence yet not be distracting. It's like the http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_YZfXCdpjU&feature=related It provides feeling without trying to steal the show.
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Krystal Wilson
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:10 pm

It provides feeling without trying to steal the show.

THAT is exactly the point i wanted to get to, the bombastic music doesn't provide immersion, it simply "steals the show".
As said before the music should be simpler, don't imagine it as a whole orchestra playing the music but more a band of 3 - 5 people.

Oh ya but still not too dragging, that's another problem there. Oftentimes the music is simply to slow and heavy. Put a bit more energy into it.
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renee Duhamel
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:37 pm

I'd like to see the stealth updated in TESV. the stealth in oblivion just seemed too basic. i have a few ideas of what they could add:
Purse cutting:
this is using a small knife to cut the strap of a purse to steal it from an npc. the npc would either notice and react by fighting you or calling for a guard, or by the time they notice you are too far for them to know who it was. if your in a buisy market they should be less likely to know it was you.
Blackjacks:
a small cosh that deals no damage but has a chance of knocking a character unconcious if used in a stealth attack.
lock breaking:
getting through locked doors/chests by means other than lock picking. if my character has low lockpicking but needs to get into a locked area i want to be able to smash the door/lock/chest to get inside. it should be based on strength and hopefully we will see visable damage.
Climbing:
we will hopefully be able to climb in TES V but i hope we wont see crazy climbing ability like some games. eg. i dont want to be able to hang on walls with no visible hand/foot holds and how often to you see people able to slide down walls or perform wall jumps in real life.
grapling hooks:
we could use grapling hooks to climb up the back of a building if we want to break in, and there should be alternative entrances because most thieves dont just walz in the front door.
these are a few suggestions of what could be added to make the stealth more varied in the next TES game. these ideas are obviously not perfect so improved suggestions are welcome.
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Lance Vannortwick
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:17 pm

Perform Instrument Skill (Drums, Flute, Lute, or Mandolin)

Play that instrument for money.
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BEl J
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:39 pm

Perform Instrument Skill (Drums, Flute, Lute, or Mandolin)

Play that instrument for money.


And just what is the advantage of having a so-called "instrument" skill at 100 and 10?
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Adrian Powers
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 4:25 am

And just what is the advantage of having a so-called "instrument" skill at 100 and 10?


At 10 you'll make a few gold here and there, but not very often will you get more than 2.

At 100, you'll be making a few hundred gold here and there, not very often will you get less than 250 or more than 500.

Here and there=1 ingame hour.
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lauren cleaves
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 3:18 pm

At 10 you'll make a few gold here and there, but not very often will you get more than 2.

At 100, you'll be making a few hundred gold here and there, not very often will you get less than 250 or more than 500.

Here and there=1 ingame hour.

Actually a even bigger point is immersion. It's just better to be actually able to USE things that lay around.

But as mentioned you could earn some money with it. there ARE more than enough people who DON'T want to be the "go around and kill everything" heros but rather role play other paths.
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Trish
 
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