No guns, why have guns when you can just throw lighting at someone??

Anyway in TES 5 want to see some limb severing, it happened in deadly reflex (well the head part did) but they could add it to all limbs and for the torso just a quick stab or chop.

May the gameplay be unbalanced!
May a revolution start!
May science start war against magic.
May the inventor of guns be persecuted, against the will of the people.
May there be riots outside of Mages' Guild establishments.
May the law send guards to halt this indescent behavior.
May everone die.

If the ability to cast a deady lightning bolt or fireball is cheap and easy to learn, than you're right, guns wouldn't make sense. If a commoner or a peasant can learn to cast fireballs than why make guns? I never really thought that magic was that easy to do or that cheap, but I guess I was wrong?

If, on the other hand, you don't expect a peasant or commoner to be able to throw fireballs around, than guns would make sense.

The throwing of potions like grenades sound pretty cool. Just picture it like those alchemists in the movie 300, that would be awesome.

Guns sound really stupid to me, i love the elder scrolls world for what it is swords, bows, magic etc. I think guns would really ruin the feel of the game.

Actually, it would make more sense that the peasant will use what ever they have to defense themselves (bow and arrow/tools/swords/axe) rather then just add gun so they can have the advantage. If ya wanna get technical, gun ain't that easy to use or maintain. I would require alot training and knowledge not get blown up by the very gun they are using. Beside, its not like they are fighting a horde of mages to defend their crop anyways.

Ok this is less on guns now but on that statement. It's the same old thing, you assume that everyone in the game world can "just do that". And the result in Oblivion was that every low life bandit could pummel you with fireballs.
But now think like this, what about people who CAN'T do magic? Those who never studied or trained it or probably have something that inhibits magical talents.

And honestly, the "Everyone can throw lightning" thing is not a arguemnt agains guns it's a argument against ranged weapons in general, same as the "they have magic" argument argues against all conventional weapons.
I mean again, if everyone is so skilled in magic from birth and with no training how come anyone trains anything else than magic? Wouldn't training magic all the time be much more effective?

Ohhh nooo not the guns discussion again!!!

Why add guns when you can add throwing stars/daggers, spears and crossbow. This will so much fit in the world again.

I know it's a lot to read but if you go back you'll see it didn't start as one, it was actually about the world changing instead of staying the same forever. Somebody mentioned guns, people got all insane over that and from point on it was downhill.

So we might discuss this point again, how could the gme world CHANGE. This is mainly due to a rumor that the next game could be set 200 years after the Oblivon crisis which gives some room for development of the world.
Aaand the big problem is die hard "fantasy fans" DON'T want the world to change and instad stay the same forever, if there are changes they're only on epic-scale-level like a whole continent "exploding".
I say the world SHOULD see some changes, it wouldn't hurt if some technologies made their way into everday Tamriel.

Hmmmm:It start out with the word gun.

Well in many fantasy stoires, we always hear of 1000 of years old people, but we never heart about weapons beaing developed and advanced in the years.

I just hate to see guns in tes

... SO?
Couldnt it have instead went "dont know about guns but X and Y maybe" instead of going SO FAR OUT to smash down that one point?
Woudln't it have been FAR easier to just let that rest and try the dicsussion another way instead?

PS: It starts out with a question, you know what could have followed... "No" or "Likeley not"...

Well of course I could say "No" or "Likely not" but along the line, someone will ask why and why not. The exchange that just happen is quite unavoidable when questioning to add guns into the game.

If magic is a replacement for technological advancements, there are some serious issues with things already accepted in the TES universe...

DING, you get 100 points.
This is what i'm talking about, the game world does not represent that it's so magic based. As said, why is there a need for travel services and even roads between towns if everyone can teleport?

Or:

Why do they have horses and invent saddles, when everyone can just cast fortify speed?
Why do they have bridges when you can cast water walking?
Why do they have stairs when you can cast levitate?
Why have armor when you can cast shield?
Why make weapons or armor when you can summon bound ones?

That because the world is base and non-base on magic itself. There are many way to do thing with or without magic. There are limitation to magic on it self and those who can use it. Travel-wise, of course there teleporting but many people does not have access to that. They would walk, ride, ferry, or taxi their way to get to point B. Combat wise, those who cannot use magic are already granted with Bows and Arrows and Melee class weapon. If they just take what they remove from Morrowind, then there a more accessibility of crossbow and throwables. Armor-wise, those who cannot use spell or even afford enchantment will get the give of having Heavy and Light armor to protect themselves from harm; Dodge or Medium Armor if added back.

But that not the argument that was present. This the matter that one would want gun as a alternate to combat itself. It always has been along line with that. It was never the technical advance because that always remain the same throughout the series. It was never about the magic as it is still on of the basis of the Series. It always was about gun and always will be about gun.

Magic over Guns always.

Forget guns.

Those who can't use magic didn't put enough effort in learning it. It ain't that hard to kill a bandit and collect one-hundred septims and join the mages' guild and start studying from books you bought.

Exactly, peopel over exegerate on "everyone can do it". In fact i think that was a boneheaded move on Beths side. They should have done magic different.

And really the discussion is NOt just on guns, it is about other technologies too. There's a good question, there obviously is printing (it even is mentioned in in game texts i think) so why do we never see any printing presses anywehre?

The PC is usually the one that can do everything, but every-else is pretty much static as what they know.


Its the same reason as to why there a sewer but no toilet or there a bunch of meat for sell but only sheep as the only farm animal that exist ingame. It was not thought out the whole way.

Since people have been crying out for some rational arguments against guns here they are.
1. (Just in case you didnt know) gunpowder is made from mixing sulphur, charcoal and potassium nitrate. I dont remember seeing sulphur or any nitrate in oblivion.

2. The discovery of any explosive would have to be the result of expensive and time consuming experimentation which wouldnt seem to make any sense in the TES universe. I know that alchemy would probably be the result of experimenting with different mixtures and testing the resultant effect but these chamicals are not common or interesting enough to be experimented with.

3. IF someone did discover gunpowder, AND THEN decided to use it to make their arrows go boom, AND THEN managed not to get their hands and face blown off, they would realise that they needed something much more sturdy than a bamboo tube to project it from. They could make a metal tube but if they had the money/resources to do that they probably wouldnt bother because theyd know magic is a much better alternative for someone with the money to use it. I saw the idea of a bamboo tube mentioned but there is no bamboo in Tamriel.

4. Im sure if they discovered gunpowder they could find a use for it in bomb like weapons or powering machinery but it would take a hell of a lot of development to make it safe, practical or even usefull. Especialy when they could just use magic

Daniel loves telling us that people just use the arguement of "they had magic so they dont need guns" ... so? Its a perfectly sencible arguement imo.

But the real reason we dont want guns is not logical or rational. Do you realy want to fight the final enemy in the MQ and he whips out a pistol?. Equaly would you want to be able to buy a gun at the weapon store?

Guns just wouldnt fit. Its irelivant wheather theyre balanced to not, they would kill the atmosphere.
If you want guns please just make a mod. I would hate to see the game ruined just for a stupid gimmick. But this whole arguement is pointless since there definatly wont be guns in TES V anyway.

We don't see children either, so we must for the sake of your argument assume that people don't reproduce or they do reproduce and are born fully grown advlts.



Alchemy isn't a result of anything... That's like science is the result of someone discovering something. And of course, no one goes out of their way to try new things, experiment or are curious. I wonder how someone discovered that bread and rice can be combined to make a potion, those ingredients are totally boring and not interesting. And of course there aren't people in TES who do any kind of research or creatively try and solve problems.



Yup, metal tubes are totally expensive... :banghead: I guess I'll go buy an axe made out of silver, that must be a lot cheaper than an iron tube... I wonder why the first person to cast a fireball didn't give up when he got burned?



Totally. We should also get rid of bridges, stairs, horses, saddles, armor and weapons. They have magic that do all those things.



That said, I don't want guns in the next game. But I'm not going to make up a bunch of bologna to justify my opinion, when the fact is guns wouldn't be that farfetched.

EDIT: And when I say "gun" I mean any projectile propelled by some explosion, like cannons, and black powder in general.

Children did exist in ingame in Oblivion, rather as bones or conversion with beggers. They were not added ingame for numerous reasons, which I rather not want to get into. (they exist in Daggerfall as far as I know it) And this is not even a good comparison in relation to existence of guns. Heck, I would bet that the such material does not exist as there was no indication at all that there was that kind of material be found in mines or records. And if assuming if it did exist, the concept of mixing it together does not exist at all. They would not know what to do with it.


But Alchemy isn't like science at all. Rather, its more on mixing the magical essence of the item and combine it together to form potion or poison. Not really as form of purpose to use for guns.


It would be more expensive to built something that have the potential of exploding the wielder because the wielder did not take care of the gun at all. It much cheaper to make the axe and slash all over the place. As to why the person did not get burn? Its Magic.


And assuming that magic fixes everything is as wishful as to call it Magic Scroll rather then Elder Scroll. It not the case of using magic all the time. Rather, it the player that does it and his/her roleplay. Alternate already exist. Its just how the player use it.


But its a bit more so ya in supporting the firearm just to remove magic altogether.


Even those items does not exist at all. There no indication of cannons or a use of black powder.

When I said children don't exist, I was referring to the notion that sulfur and nitrates don't exist. Not blackpowder or cannons. Why would you assume they don't exist? Should you also not believe that nitrogen, calcium, copper or tin don't exist?



I have no idea what your saying here. Its more expensive to make a metal tube than to make a silver axe?



Are you saying that people don't experiment when making potions out of ingredients? What about the nirn root potions? Is it that hard to believe that someone could inadvertently discover how to make an explosive chemical or potion?



I didn't say they did. I was explaining why the discovery and invention of such things would not be far fetched over a period of 200 years.

And for the rest of your replies to my reply, I have no idea what your saying or how it refutes my arguments.

Okay, you continuously say that the concept does not exist at all. That's like saying, since it hasn't existed before, it can and never ever will and there is no possibility because it didn't exist earlier. So the concept of swords magic delicious hot meals, castles, carts, armor and everything else always had existed since the dawn of time?

Whoa! hot talk about gun and magic but I would prefer myself using bow along with some magic in TES

and I want to ask about Have you guy talk about werewolf yet?
It would be greater to have it back in TES V