You know what I would be interested to see? Live Arena combat. Before anybody starts stoning me with the "no mmo!!", that's not at all what I'm talking about. I think it would be neat if, along with a full Arena quest/factions and NPC battles at any time within the arena, if there was an option to fight other people. For instance, you talk to the arena master or whatever, he asks you what kind of fight you want. If you want to fight npcs, then you are set up with that but if you wanna choose live, then you sign in to xbox live (or however it would be done for pc) and the computer sets you up with either someone near your skill level or a person of your choice and you fight.

Not necessary i just think it would be interesting.

I would yes, in a way. many material were not found and the one that is found would be use for metal work rather then explosive.


Its more expensive to maintain the gun. Ya have to clean it and buy ammo, not to mention to see if it still usable after one use. Axes is much more easier to fix and cheaper to replace.


When they mix potion, I would expect they would do a taste and drink it. If it end up killing the person, then its fitted for poison. Not really the same idea as far as using potion to make things go boom.


The Universe did not progress the same way as we do. And we are looking at a time where thing are not looking too well with the emperor dead and all. I would doubt any progression in this time of darkness.


I would say yes. The castle and armor is more of an extra skin to houses or the body, if anything.

Okay, so basically you feel that Elder Scrolls should be completely static. Always has been, always will be sort of thing with no actual beginning and no actual end? I'm not being insulting, I'm just trying to make sure I understand you

I also had that idea. I think it's one of the only ways to introduce a PvP element to the game, without messing up the main quest storyline.

Exactly, and still allow you to show off your character. That was something that I never liked. I built this bad ass character but unless somebody came over and I turned on the game for the sole purpose of showing them, no one except me knew about it.

"A living, breathing world"

*sigh*

The problem with this argument is although all things have magika, the training requireed to use it far exceeds what is available to the average person. Therefore horses bridges shields weapons are necessities,

It wasn't actually an argument for anything, it was a counter argument to the idea that "no need for guns, cast fireball instead." Not everything can be solved magically or on a mass scale for everyone in the world. So it would be expected that the Fighters Guild focus on combat that is non-magical. And why would you assume that a organization would simply be content with what they have, and not try to get the upper hand on competitors? Assuming that somehow black powder is discovered, it is obvious that it would be put to use in non-magical combat because casting fireballs and lightning are as you said "exceeds what is available to the average person." Whereas point a gun and pulling a trigger is something that you can be trained to do pretty cheaply.

That being said, my argument is merely that guns are not out of the question. Do I want guns? no. But am I going to make up stuff to try and justify my subjective opinion? no. I think the game would be as fun without guns, as it would with guns.

EDIT
Is it unreasonable to assume that a warrior is going to want to have better weapons and armor than his foe? Is it not unreasonable that a general would want someone figuring out how his army can be better equipped than his enemies? Weapon and technology often go hand in hand with warfare.

But it really a poor argument assuming that because magic can do everything, they should remove everything else, while at the same time, ya ignore everything else and just say they should have guns because everything else is worthless compare to magic. Competition wise, the Mages Guild is more focus on their study to become more leet and destroy other magical group of people to form a monopoly while the Fighter Guild is more a mercenary guild base on doing things and get pay for it. Heck, even the Mages Guild will hire the Fighter Guild to do their stuff for them. Much more efficient.


And again, that assuming if the black powder exist and know what it does at the same time. It neither in both cases. Gun wise, it take skills to even pull that trigger. You do not want to fire an unprepared gun and it blow up on your hand, or maintaining it to make it work, or find parts or ammo for it or aiming it if its that heavy.


But then again, adding gun will create a unstoppable reaction of changing everything the TES Universe up to this point (gameplay, setting, and it own genre). I rather they do not risk that road and screw up just to add guns.

The general hires Mages to be the nukers, healers, and bluffer while the warriors charges into fields and tank the frontline. Archer will be place in high lands or require to fire in arches to pick off foe as a distance. This kind of battle always remain the same throughout history.

You've kinda stopped making any sense at all.

I always thought of the sewers as major water diversion tunnels - human waste didn't come to mind.
There are a "bunch of meat" in Morrowind - hound meat, rat, corprusmeat, human flesh, crab meat, and daedra/ghoul hearts - and that's just vanilla Morrowind.

But I would assume that if also use for removal of human waste along side of removing rain water off the street.

Meat-wise, the existence of meat in Oblivion isn't too kind from their source. Cow does not exist, pork product attack people on sight, deer is too fast to catch, and what remain is just sheep.

1) You think I'm assuming that because magic can do everything, they should remove everything else.
----->1a) Wrong. You said that magic can do everything (No guns, use fireball).
----->1b) When I said that you could take out stairs, armor, weapons, etc, I was being facetious, pointing out your argument in 1a doesn't make sense. Excluding guns because of a fireball spell (reason in 1a), is like leaving out bridges because of water walking spells.



2) Do you know what a gun is? Have you ever fired one? It isn't that hard to gain a little bit of proficiency with it.
-----> Should we not include fireballs because it could also blow up in your hand?
-----> Do armor and weapons not wear out over time, and take maintenance?
-----> Does it not take skill to fire a bow?
-----> Is it that hard to aim a war hammer when swinging at someone?
------> You can fire practically anything in a muzzleloader, glass, dirt, pebbles
------> Melting lead into shot is easier than pie
------> Perish the thought of weapons being tied to some form of skill.... oh wait....



3) I guess we have to assume people in TES are completely idiotic and lack creative and progressive thought.
-------> Good thing its fantasy, where you can set arbitrary limitations on people's ability to think, create and imagine

Again, I want to say that I don't want guns, I just think its lame to assume that the people in TES or the world itself is incapable of developing them. I think it is completely reasonable to assume that guns are possible, yet admit that adding them would change the point of what TES is supposed to be.

Daniel Kay, the problem with your "technologically progressing" idea is that eventually The Elder Scrolls would turn into the equivalent of our modern times. That's why Bethesda has Fallout. If you want technology, then buy Fallout III. The Elder Scrolls should always have "primitive" weapons and not guns.

And how fast do you think that would happen? Between the "middle ages" and now there's QUITE some time.
Plus, to say this, NO it would NOT have to end up "here". The world could very well develop a totlay different way.

There's sulfur in Daggerfall, amongst other things like tin, copper, ivory..... they just left them out of the other games.
But I agree that guns would be totally stupid to put in the game. This isn't a cowboys and indians game.

I am pretty much basing on your argument. You pretty much simplifed magic to one easy button and the solution is to blow it up with a gun while ingoring the alternate that already exist.


Ya confusing with this http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/p22-air-pistol.jpg with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blunderbuss. It not ganna start with the first link I presented. The second link requires training to work it right.

Maintenance wise, its much easier to fix up a melee weapon as it just replace the handle, sharpen the blade, or get a new one altogether. They are replaceable and everyone knows how to fix it.

And its sad ya assuming the basic use of other weapon in comparison to a gun. Training require to even fire the bow at a target and using a war hammer efficiently can cause alot of damage without wasting energy. Not training with a warhammer correctly lead to wasteful blows that is easy to predict and dodge and the user will lose alot of energy along the process.

Not really. Its really all on strategy and placement of the troop. In the Empire case, if that fail, there usually a back up weapon that just burn everything up for them. *cough*dragon*cough*

And no Daniel, this does not mean 'hey! Bring up pimitive guns!'

You stated earlier that you have yet to hear a valid argument AGAINST introducing guns into TES,
I have yet to hear a valid argument FOR introducing guns into TES.

Both arguments (which are quite annoying & de-railing of an ideas/suggestions) can be summarized thusly:
A. I want guns in TES
B. I don't want guns in TES
everything else in these 2 stances is subjective.

(before I forget, I recall someone mentioning lack of sulfur in the Elder Scrolls....It existed in Daggerfall, but for some reason was red in color )

EDIT: Oh, SNAP! Ninja'd by Tes96!

Now, can we stop beating the "Guns in TES" dead horse?

The Elder Scrolls IS NOT EARTH IT DOESNT ADVANCE THE SAME WAY!

...Which it already HAS. A GUNLESS magical world.
Please stop.

... you still think that was about GUNS.
HELL DAMN NO, it was about TECHNOLOGY IN GENERAL.

So I blew up magic's easy button with a gun... ok...

http://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&q=muzzleloader+training
---- http://www.nmlra.org/education.asp

I'm done with this. You're not making any sense. And arguing for something I don't even want is kind of getting me irritated.
Guns in the TES universe is not impossible.
I don't want guns in TES:V
I'm done talking about it.

That's a good idea. It would give you the option to just play by yourself against the computer, or to play against another real person. I'd like that. I'd also like to have the option to play the game live with another live player; an option, though. Not something you'd be forced to do. Kinda like the option of fast travel; you can use it if you want.

That more of a real life handling of those kind of guns. It require training to handle them right if ya wanna put it in RPG perceptive. They cannot be leet right away.

And of course you would not want guns but still trying to say they could be added in the first place. There is so many things that prevent that from happening in the first place.

Anyway, I think TES:V should bring back the barter system that was in Morrowind. Being able to put something on the table, and get back another item with gold exchanged as the difference. It made selling lots of expensive stuff to vendors with less money easier.