I'm sorry but that is extremely cliche. I thought we were going for unique?

I want to see some volatile alchemical substances that I can throw in vials and have explode on impact.

Uhm... how is that cliche? Actuall that second line IS very cliche, knock over a pot of alchemy stuff and it explodes (pinto paint aparantly).
In ever fantasy Goblins are displayed as asocial and dumb, why not display them "intelligent ina DIFFFERENT way" for once?

Warcraft Cliches. In TES world, they are not that smart to even invent something like that of a gun. I can only credited the goblins as crafty, but that are not that like that of intelligent.

I don't wanna fully descent into a gun topic but i didn't mean inventing anything like a handgun, more like a "one time use hand canon" which basically would just be a bamboo tube wrapped in leather, filled with gunpowder and a projectile in it (and before you say "doesn't work", there actually ARE canons made of bamboo or wooden tubes)

And that assuming if the concept of gunpowder even exist. I would doubt they would go through that trouble of making if it comes to direct combat (nondirect combat, they have traps or ambush waiting to happen). I picture shaman will just blast the hero away with a large stick, many goblins gang up on the Hero with swords and claws, and traps laying all over for the place that can be trigger by both parties. Much more damage output and alot less time wasting as using a tube cannon.

Well, if I remember correctly, Lost Odyssey was split up over four discs. So couldn't Bethesda make a disc for each provence? That would make it massive, utterly massive and it would be a hassle to change out discs for every provence but they could make each provence so huge that it would take a long time before needing to change discs.

I think it's from DnD where goblins are technically advanced? or was that just my friends campaign?



I like the idea of a wooden/bamboo handcannon but I don't want it with gunpowder. It could simply be manpowered drawing back stretched leather (creating elastic potential energy, as we learn in science ) and releasing which fires a projectile most likely a rock or other dense material.

I've stated this before...this essentially exists in oblivion: a wooden stick that fires projectiles, has a limited number of 'shots' and the ability to 'reload' using a filled Gem.
Daniel, Guns ALREADY EXIST in TES....they just exist in an alternate progression where things are DIFFERENT sort of way. (Queue talking cat-men and lizard-men)

Doesn't have to be gunpoweder but a similar explosive substance, all possible (in the game) after all.
And on the "tube cannon", imagine having not one but a few stacked and then lit the same time, would put quite a heavy blow in the "heros" face.


I actually mentioned that point in some firearms topics and it was used as both "we don't need them, we already have something like them" AND "NO they're NOT guns"... yea logic has a problem on these forums.

...the slingshot?

or if said rock were to be replaced with a sharpened wooden shaft, would'nt we be looking at the concept of a bow?

I picture that a blow gun will be the weapon that will do the preemptive attack since it require alot less tech and alot more poison. Damage wise, I picture it will be the same as a huge fire ball strike in the face, if anything.


Its because the alternate already exist. Arrows, swords, axes, hammer, and of course, staff and magic itself. If they want to add more weapon into the mix, then throw-able, darts, crossbow, and spears.

Those are good too but I was thinking more like http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Yuan_chinese_gun.jpg except wooden, with a taught stretchy bit of leather at one end which you pull back and release.

Some http://www.instructables.com/files/deriv/FAB/9WLF/ZOGEXCFC5GU/FAB9WLFZOGEXCFC5GU.MEDIUM.jpg would be cool too.

EDIT: Mistakes fixed

I still don't get it why people say "We have all those alternatives BUT THAT ONE IS BAAAAAADDDDDD". So far i haven't heard ONE solid point against guns, simialry as i never heard one solid point against a http://www.gamesas.com/bgsforums/index.php?s=&showtopic=1056032&view=findpost&p=15341189 and yet it gets treated like i'd it installs a tons of viruses on your hard drive when it's in the game.
Just because "it was in other games" it makes it bad aparantly, people happly swing the fable flail, bash any other game for "not being TES and it shouldn't invade our holy ground" and generally protest against anything that could be "new".

Saying "i want daggerfall with better graphics" is easier than actually thinking.


Ehh i posted something like that before, i tell you one thing, people go REALLY far out to completely destroy any logic just to havea "NO GUNS" banner flying. Main argument "guns would be to modern", you show them a more primitive version of a gun and they say "That's TOO PRIMITIVE TO BE USEFULL"... 100% honest, those where used arguments in firearms topics.

Because gut feeling toward an idea counts as legitimate reason why they should not add guns. Its basic common react and if the Dev up end adding guns just to see if they can get more sale, they going to piss off alot of the fans and they would feel like the Dev screw them over.

If ya want to get typical wise, the people of TES world would just use the weapons I mention rather then something that use pop out of no where and/or the fact magic, staff and bows already give that kind of distance attack.

And yet can you imagine how the inventor of the REAL hand cannon must have felt? Chances are he was hung or burned for witchcraft. Can you imagine the conversation?

Inventor "But it makes so much sense! You put this metal ball in here, light the fuse here, then it explodes and flings the metal ball like so, and bam, enemy dead!"
King "Hmm......but we have arrows for that, why wouldn't we just use that?"
Inventor "Uh, cause this kills them easier, faster and far more efficiently?"
King "Yup, sounds like witchcraft to me. Kill him!"

Lol, Daniel, you just stumbled upon a group of people that are so attached to lore that they resist change as they would in real life.

Eh i watched a lot "The Atheist Experience" videos, you slowly get used to seeing overly dogmatic people and their "arguments"

Still people are so damn stuck up about "TEH MEANING OF RPG" that they get irrational. I wouldn't really wonder of people start protesting locational damage again even though it gained a lot of popularity after Oblivion, just "because it's not typical for RPGs" (even though it IS and many simply oversimplified on it)

Given in the TES world, such concept does not exist at all, nor the fact that it could translate further into the future. They can't just add guns right away and expect some lame answer why it there already. That just screw up with the lore and the rpg style on to itself.

The thing is, though, it IS a valid point. Fantasy is not a game genre, it is a setting genre. If you have a game that's almost the same as Oblivion but takes place in the future with lasers and space battles, it's sci-fi. You can complain about fantasy never changing, but it's not really supposed to. How often do other genres "change?" The popular cliche of Tolkien-esque medieval settings are not the definition of fantasy, so that can change, but the more specific definition is a focus on magic and the supernatural. It's the specific evasion of scientific and technological themes that separates it from science fiction.

People keep disagreeing with guns on a "gut reaction" because it doesn't really have anything to do with whether they can theoretically make sense, and doesn't really warrant any argument. Guns are a risky addition just as magic is touchy to add into science or realistic fiction. People who want fantasy are going to disagree with guns, because guns move away from fantasy. That's it, pretty much, and it's always pointless to attempt to argue against preference.

Yea just like they can't expect us to buy a total sudden climate change in Cyrodiil that would totaly go agaist any, oh wait, they did that, forget that point then...

The reaction to that wasn't pretty, as ya know it by now.

A really BIG problem there is, TES, up till Oblivion was LOW FANTASY, there where actual "problems" in the world, politics played into the whole mix and i wasn't "good vs. evil" and "because the gods said so". With Oblivion they kicked it HARD into the "high fantasy" side which pretty much screwed up everything established so far.

I would be SO DAMN HAPPY if they moved further into low fantasy againa nd actually have a believable world once more. But no, move to high fantasy and cash in on all the LotR crazies, why be different if you can be marketable.
Morrowind was good because it actually dared to do things different.



Yes they where but again, guns would not automatically mean the whole world suddenly tumbles over ina multiple summersualt.
One idea was that while they DO exist people don't use them much, they are very obscure and early ones are dangerous. But if you're small, weak and fragile and have to deal with a huge brute having something so strong and yet easy to use would be a good thing (one more reason why i'd put the guns in goblin hands, they're not afraid of them as they give them a advantage that can mean the death of one but the continuation of a whole "colony").

Lol.

Honestly, the only thing I would worry about with adding guns is this:
As it is now, Mages have a pretty nice position, relative to the pope before King Henry. That is to say, it would be really difficult to kill a powerful and determined mage. Not that they have a HUGE political influence nor do they run the country but I guarantee you that the Elder Council at least consults the Mages' Guild from time to time. And I bet very few people purposely mess with a mage. Not without some serious magical power themselves.
Guns however remove that advantage. Not completely but enough to even the playing field. So i could picture riots, crusades against mages, and all sorts of countless things going badly for the Mages in (potentially) 200 years. Which leads me to think that adding guns may cause Elder Scrolls to head the direction of Fable II and I don't think ANYBODY wants that...

This is what it was like for Da Vinci to convince people of his amazing technologies.

Also I believe we should soon collate a extensive list of things that 95% of the forumites want in TES 5 to give the developers a clearer idea of want people want.

Fable Flailed, "sounds like something that was in fable, means it's BAD"

not that fable was bad. I loved fable. But I Like fable. And I like elder scrolls. I don't know if i'd like Fable Scrolls. I loooooovvveeee good storylines and copied storylines are terrible 95% of the time