Well then, how would "adding guns" have made it "go down the way fable did"?

well, let me clarify. First of all, I'm not opposed to adding guns. I think if done well, it would make a fine addition. Secondly, my only WORRY is that Bethesda not do a potential Storyline of "Guns gave common folk the advantage over mages, a mage killed somebody leading to a mass slaughter of magic using peoples and now people don't believe in magic. Now you the player have magic and guns and must use these talents to save tamriel" or some bs like that, because that IS fable. Not likely, but its very possible and i was merely voicing that if guns are added, Bethesda should NOT ever even come close to thinking about considering that progressional path

That, while unfortunate, is another strike against guns I think. There's kind of a spectrum to these things; there's LOTR high fantasy, and then low fantasy, and after that would probably be steampunk. There were elements of technological advancement, not just in the dwemer, but with stuff like mechanical traps and sewer systems and printing presses and Sotha Sil's place. In low fantasy/steampunk the addition of gunpowder wouldn't stand out so much, but if they stick to the lazy money of LOTR (which is unfortunately likely) guns are too far in the opposite direction to serve as any advocate of "change." It would be too blatant and sour of a note.


That's a rather dangerous direction. People will get pretty venomous when you get into the territory of whose preferences "deserve" to have priority, and considering the sizable portion of the forum that hates Oblivion because they felt it screwed them (the minority) over in favor of a larger fanbase, I imagine many of them will be all the more against it.

My worry is that the balance will be destroy: bow and arrow render useless, melee ain't that effective, armors are gone, magic will be down graded, and this is just adding gun into the mix. To top it off, its not a magic and sword RPG anymore.

I should clarify once more too:

I'm NOT saying "I WANT guns and we abo[censored]ely need them", i basically do all this arguing because i want to break down the "Big wall of NO" with REASON.
This is why i'm so harsh on people saying "This was in fable so BAD" because the only reason given is "IT'S FABLE"... so WHAT?

Sorry if i jump on something here but i don't belive you there.
Ther have been TONS of discussions with examples how they can be used and be VERY balanced in the game.
Oh yea and "To top it off, its not a magic and sword RPG anymore", does that mean being able to talk to people and actually have a speechcraft skill is bad? After all that's neither magic, nor mindlessly killing stuff. Or does that make playing the game different styles bad?

Not if its a relatively new invention. Without the introduction of interchangeable parts and the assembly line, coupled with with diverse amount of materials to go into a gun and the exotic gunpowder (imported from Akavir?) guns could cost a small fortune (like, 30,000 gold) This way unless you are really really working for a gun, the only way you'll get one is killing a high level character that has one already and even then ammo for it is scarce. Make it powerful, but hard to keep up.

It because when someone want guns, they simply say Fable did it. This alone put Fable in a hot stove the matter that Fable and TES is NOT the same. Fable handle their own way and TES handle their.


I would want speechcraft to be a legit Skill again, but its not the matter of speechcraft, its a matter of guns.

I rather doubt Akavir would have that kind of monstrosity and I am not really supporting the matter that they could just make one gun and that all. That just a waste of resource onto itself. If the guns is crap to use, then why the hell would one use it if a sword and any type of weapon can do a MUCH better job. With that said, I RATHER they bring back crossbow then just add guns.

Plus imagine the new things you could use Telekinesis Spells for. Ripping bullets out of the air seems a lot better use of my time than opening a chest from across the room

Lemme jack in there:
Interchangeable parts - Not necessary, a bamboo pipe does
assembly line - Hollow out a bamboo pipe or a tree stump, done
diverse amount of materials to go into a gun - See above
exotic gunpowder - That might be the part but once it's possible to anolyze you can reproduce it

The point would be those guns made like this are ONE TIME USE, boom and throw it away. There is no reusing or reloading. They can do a one time BOOM that's very strong but afterwards they're useless.

Why only one time use?

That is pretty much the way i saw it on these forums so far.


You're getting of the actual point there. The first time i entered a Dwemer ruin TES stopped being typical "Sword and magic fantasy" for me.


Those thing's aren't exactly sturdy, they'd be damaged beyond use after one shot, it is "just" a wooden tube after all that can only take one blow. Goblins don't care as they can make new ones relative easily.
Besides they wouldn't be a copy of "real" guns from our world but rather develop their OWN weapon concept, one that works for them and what they can acturally produce with limited resources.

Then again, it is one of the reason why someone would want gun in the first place: becasue Fable did it. I just say it straight out so no one else use that nonsense.


But they did not create guns, those Dwemer. In fact, I love their concept. I love their atmosphere in the ruins. I also love the fact they died out and also their technology. Its still a matter of sword and magic fantasy that sword and magic is still use as a way of killing things rather then a gun.


Again, I would doubt the goblin will spend that much time JUST to create or use up that much resource for a pipe cannon or what ever the heck it is just to use it once. Better off they stick with their traps, magic, and zerging.

I just think that sorta nullifies the whole point. I thought that guns would be introduced as a sign of change and progress in tamriel? However, a one time use gun is make utterly worthless with a scroll. A massive fireball effect and you have the same thing. Lots of power at a range with 100% guarantee to work with only one use. However scrolls weight less and so having 2 guns at a potential 2 lb. of weight is like having 20 scrolls that could have the same amount of power. No body in tamriel would invent something like that and even if goblins would do it cause maybe they don't know how to enchant or its not widely available or for whatever reason, the character would have no reason to use it unless the benefits of having it massively outweighed that of scrolls.

It really just doesn't seem worth it to me. I mean, there are several possibilities:

Full implementation. Guns are commonplace all of a sudden and function realistically. This would require some massive rebalancing, as a lot of other forms of combat would become obsolete or less useful (just as modern combat is highly gun-based, or was until bombs got bigger), as well as warranting some story explanation and considerably societal changes as people get their hands on them. Basically, it would wind up being a major factor of the game by necessity, considerably changing both gameplay and setting. Needless to say, this would enrage a lot of people and create a game that doesn't have the same feel as the rest of the series, which is generally something you want to retain in a series.

Partial implementation. Guns are available, but balanced to be equal to other options and for some reason haven't really changed the rest of the world. All the anger of people who don't want them with annoying people who DO want them by making them essentially oddly-shaped bows.

Minor implementation. Only a couple people have one, and they're the one-shot type that takes 3 days to reload. For people who dislike the gun idea, it's still bad, since you're still wasting effort on something that shouldn't be there. For those who want it...what's the point? Powerful one-off attacks are very easily occupied by things like scrolls or exploding alchemy potions without causing genre conflict. For the purpose of moving away from high fantasy, they don't fit there in the first place (hence the moving away), and if the game is no longer high fantasy, then you don't need a beacon for change.

I want more innovative and improvised weapons.
For example

Un/broken bottles
pitchforks
spades
rocks
tree branches
bricks
broken glass
etc...

and I want to be able to do more attacks than just "slash". It would be weapon dependent so a dagger could have stab and slash. Stab would be a left click and slash would be a right click.

Another appeal of cryengine 3 is it has really good destructible environment support. Which would make for awesome bar fights.

I agree except for the minor implementation. Who said that they necessarily have to follow our progression. Who says that they have to take a long time to reload? In Tamriel, Women have power and influence, dwarves already had steam power, and black and white people live peacefully together. These people are maybe a little smarter than us? Its not a hard leap of logic to say "Hmm....this invention fires a bullet to kill an enemy. Thats great. Except in war where there are many enemies potentially shooting at you, and you have to spend 15 minutes reloading. How about I make a separate little chamber for more bullets to fall in after one fires?" I'm not suggesting starting of with machine guns but a 4 or 6 shot weapon is not a stretch. You make them rare and powerful, easy to use and not utterly useless after one time but not so widespread that we already see a change in combat tactics. This would seem to satisfy both parties

Not really. Just adding a one gun and say it is rare seem like a waste of resource usage. They have to make the mesh, texture, and the animation for the gun. And lore-wise, they cannot just add it in right away. Usage-wise, I bet the bullet will be annoying hard to find, making it more useless to own the gun. All this for a rare gun.

Exactly hence why I changed my signature to show my opinion on guns.

Rare doesn't have to equal only one gun. I was thinking like the captain of the watch in each town, the emperors guards, High Ranking officials, exclusive shops in which the guns would be a lot of money. Those shops could care the ammo and the ammo could regenerate within the store every so often

I rather doubt those high class or guards would just use guns as a weapon (they are proud of their sword and arrows and they are going to use those or in the case of the emperors, Leet Mages) or the fact that gun just sudden come up right away into the universe of TES isn't ganna cut it, not to mention that the concept of such a weapon does not even exist at all in the TES Universe.

Well I would only want it if the story is indeed 200 years after Oblivion. The concepts of Motorized vehicles didn't exist 200 years ago, neither did the concept of a telephone or particle accelerator or commercial spaceflight or The Elder Scrolls. Just because a concept doesn't exist at one point in time doesn't mean it cant exist at a later point in time

But then again, such timeline of the past from Redguard up to the point of Oblivion proven that everything seem to stay in the same technical setting. I would doubt that 200 years would ever change that. (Not to mention, I would bet, that the first 100 years is more of degradation as the Empire as a whole and people are too worry to come up with new stuff anyways and the last 100 year will be to the same progression point to that was in Oblivion).

Past history is not a good indication of the future. We've progressed more technologically in the past 150 years than we have combined in the previous 5000 years

That because we do not even have magic, nor the fact that the timeline in our reality is NOT the same to that of TES Universe. Their progression is way different then ours. It not comparable.