I want more of the weapons and items described in Tamrelic Lore...

A way they could help that situation is to steer your quests through certain organizations toward the weapon types from your skillset. The other various types of weapons wouldn't be unavailable to get, the guilds would just set you up with better info on the stuff you're more likely to want.

Marksman is fine for archery and crossbows, it is inappropriate for thrown weapons. The skill in that is too different. Not that the skill in crossbows is entirely similar to archery, but crossbows are freaking easy to use.

Even if that was their reason for doing so, it doesn't change the fact that one still has to wait to find the next best weapon. That "this material is better than that" thing, so there will always be some kind of search for "the next good thing." However, if they are going in that direction and keep going, we'll just wind up with "weapon skill" that counts for everything. No thank you. Not saying you are wrong. Just saying I sure hope you are wrong.

I would like to see more than 2 weapon categories. Even if we just had "Blade, Axe and Blunt" it'd be an improvement. More would be nice for replaying with different characters,

No, it's not that I think they're going to make TESV only have one "weapon skill," it's that I believe Bethesda thought that there might have been too many weapon skills in Morrowind. I certainly hope Short Blade and Spear make returns (taking the Spear skill out was just plain stupid in my opinion), although I would prefer that Axe and Blunt remain the same skill. As much as people want to say that axes aren't blunt, Bethesda's reasoning for that was that they're used in a very similar manner, not that they were the same thing.

Hopefully Bethesda realized that while streamlining is nice sometimes, it is possible to take it too far. Removing Spear was a dumb idea, and Short Blade and Long Blade being the same skill makes very little sense whatsoever- wielding a claymore and wielding a dagger are two entirely different experiences. At the same time, I hope that they don't quite go back to Morrowind's annoyingly high number of weapon skills; merging Blunt and Axe together made quite a bit of sense to me; it was something that needed to be done. Also, if they bring back Medium Armor, I should hope they make it worth using from the start instead of forcing you to buy expansions just to get decent Medium armor.

Also, the whole "this material is better than that" thing was a limited cycle. When I used the example of finding an awesome weapon that you couldn't use, I had things like Daedric Artifacts and Riekling lances in mind.

@Shades- While it isn't quite logical for Marksman and Thrown Weapons to be the same skill, it makes quite a bit of sense for game balance reasons. Bows and Crossbows in Morrowind were far superior to thrown weapons, and, had Thrown Weapons been its own skill, it would have been even more useless than Medium Armor. If they make Thrown Weapons a skill on par with Marksman in TES V, they're just making a mistake opposite the one the made in Oblivion; this kind of thing would lead back to the finding awesome but unusable things, only worse. Seriously, what's next? Making Long Blade separate from Two-Handed Blade?

They just removed spear because they aren't good with animating.

Oblivion's Staff animation was basically a spear animation, but slower.

Have you seen http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12611? It lets you use the staff animation to make spear-like attacks with any in-game weapon.

My point is that Bethesda didn't take out spears because they aren't good with animating; they basically made a spear animation regardless of the absence of spears. They took it out because not many people used it in Morrowind (please, before you all rain anecdotes about your spear-wielding Morrowind characters, realize that I said not many, not no one. Of course some people did, and you may be one of them; I don't deny that) and they wanted to streamline.

Yes. Having all kind of katanas and tantos is just stupid because nowadays every game have those weapons and they aren't really unique.
They should make Tamrielic weapons instead of already used ones.

To be perfectly honest; I'm really not all that picky on the details. If they want to keep them in the same category then I'm not going to whine. I'll just be happy with more weapon categories to make more diversified characters with.

I get what you're saying about like.. finding an axe and you're not pimarily an axe user and you'd rather have a sword.

Problem, though. It's just that your statement makes me worry that Bethesda might see it lol.

Before you say "good!" please consider..

The treasure seeking process became over-streamlined to the point where even those "very hard" locked chests only have like 50 gold because Bethesda trembles at the thought of upsetting all the non-thieves out there. However, by worrying so much about the non-thief, they completely forgot about the thief.

If this were the only example, I wouldn't think twice. But, I see it often enough that I wonder about Bethesda's ability to rationalize. Thus, I worry that they'll see your statement and go "Oh, well we just need to give them their favorite weapon the second they step out the door."

No! No, don't do that for gawd's sake. I like having a reason for treasure seeking. I'm not a lazy butt. I'm happy to look for my weapon of choice. I like the anticipation.



Agree. See statement above.

i belive we should keep the weapon system from oblivion mostly the same ,but, there should be more variety in the power of weapons because i find that the bows and daggers ussually cause far less damage than a longsword or mace. there should be stronger bows maybe with different strings to cause greater power upon releasing the bow. although i think this could be a good addition to a future game ( if ever there is one) i still think the weapon sytem in oblivion is close to perfect. my only other complaint is that you can only use magic with staffs, i think you should also be able to attack closely with them.

Oh and please...dont take this post too seriously :shocking:

1) Bring back the weapons from Morrowind and 2) more unique weapons.

I would prefer to have these weapon skills in the next TES game:
- Long Blades
- Short Blades
- Axes & Blunt (yes, merged... but with both weapon types in the skill name)
- Polearms (this includes spears)
- Marksman (with crossbows and throwing weapons!)
- Hand-To-Hand (with lots of new, useful moves... so that this skill could be worth playing)

There should also be more weapons and armor available, like in Morrowind. More weapons unique to the TES-universe, and more weapon stats to think about when choosing a weapon for combat. Scythes, shovels, picks and other farming/mining tools available to use as weapons, also making the torch usable as a weapon would also be great.
Skills like acrobatics and athletics having more effect on the combat would be nice, opening up new combat moves if the weapon skill and Athletics and/or Acrobatics skill is high enough. Combining Hand-To-Hand and Acrobatics could for example give you some sweet martial arts moves. Similar things should of course apply the the other weapon skills as well.
New and exciting ways to use the Sneak skill, make it less basic and more like Splinter Cell.

I like it.

I agree with the flail with the same effect of those chains at the beginning of oblivion in the jail. Also I ( though I am a bit 'iffy' on this) wouldn't mind having an Introduction to muskets and crossbows. Most of all I want the animations to be unique and correspond to each weapon. I dont want a mace to have sword animations, Nor do I want a dagger to have sword animations. Fluent, realistic, unique animations.

I think that there should be spiked and brass knuckles to go into the hand to hand category. Then you could enchant them and make them super powerful punches.

Daggers should be held with the blade pointing downwards, not upwards.

Muskets... eh, I don't know about this one. Doesn't seem likely or practical since there is magic in the TES universe.

I totally share your opinion. In oblivion I can't even say how akward it was walking into mine about to lay waste to some local egg miners, only to realize that they drop their picks and pull out a blasted flame axe from the depths of hell itself.

That's exactly what's next. Skills:

Greatsword
Sword
Concealed weapons (includes thrown and dagger melee)

So making the two handed distinction, they'd also need a Large Mauls skill in addition to Mauls. Thrown weapons would fit perfectly with Oblivion because you can poison your weapons in that game.

I think concealing a weapon should be its own skill. Obviously, not all weapons would be concealable.

And I don't know about grouping a dagger with a throwing knife. Rather keep melee and ranged separate.

Having played alot of Mount&Blade (and expansion) recently, I found their system nearly perfect. They only have three melee skills: One handed, two handed, and polearms.

One handed includes everything from dagger over mace to axes, picks, and swords
Two handed includes stuff like large axes, maul-like weapons (the few there are) and two handed swords
Polearms includes everything along the lines of spears, staffs, pikes, war hammers (the proper ones) etc.

Then there's three ranged skills for throwing weapons, crossbows and bows.

So the number of skills (at least in the melee department) is quite low, but the variety of weapons is huge. And, most importantly: There are few "better" and "worse" weapons. Some players swear that a simple wooden spear is the best, others love their two handed swords, others want huge axes instead, depending on their playing style. If you want raw power, go for a maul or two handed axe. If you want speed, go for a spear or one handed weapon. If you want extra protection, take a spear, one handed weapon or bastard-type weapon with a shield. If you like to dodge instead of blocking, take something fast and long. If you are good at blocking (you have to manually block in that game, chosing the right block direction against the incoming attack - there's four possible attack directions, similar to Morrowind), you might want to do without a shield because you're faster then. If you're not that good at blocking or if you're facing archers, you'll want a shield. (Note that in that game, your speed and the relative speed of your opponent are also important: A horse that rides into a spear takes alot of extra damage, because of the forward movement of the thrust and the forward movement of the horse hitting against eachother, multiplying the damage)

Ranged weapons also work very well, and throwing weapons are balanced, especially due to the limit to "active" weapon slots. You can only have four weapons with you during combat, even though you might have a dozen weapons in your inventory. These four could be: Sword, shield, long axe, throwing weapons. Or: sword, shield, bow, arrows. Or: spear, shield, crossbow, bolts. The thing is, throwing weapons only take one slot because you don't need extra ammo for them, making them a good choice for a player who wants both, sword&shield and a two handed weapon (for example because he only wants the shield in case of facing an archer, but normally prefers his glaive - or because he wants to have a sword, shield and pike against horseman).
Bows are very very lethal in that game, but then again, with a shield you're safe until it breaks or you get shot in the back; making it possible to play a dedicated archer who has a POWERFUL weapon, but there is a counter against it.

Something like that would help alot. Having not better and worse weapons like it was in Morrowind and Oblivion, but rather having weapons that are made for different situations. A spear that is especially long would be perfect for fighting wild animals - because they cause alot of damage and you don't want to get hit. A sword & shield would be perfect against archers; the shield slows your combat speed down, however, making you worse against someone without a shield. A two-handed weapon would be perfect in melee, but easily countered by someone with ranged weapons or someone who hits from out of range / jumps at you.

That also leaves alot more possiblities for unique weapons. They don't only have a damage value to make a difference between them. Their individual weight, length etc would matter. So you could have a certain, unique sword, that, while not being very powerful, is especially fast and good for blocking. Or having things like "long iron spear", "steel spear", and "orcish glaive"; the latter would be slow but powerful, the steel spear would be more powerful and harder to break than the long iron spear, but the long iron spear would still out-range both other weapons and would be better suited against an animal that tends to jump at the player.

There's so many possibilities if Bethesda would leave the path of making weapons as linear as they are, only different in damage output and how fast they break.

Polearms (spears, pikes, halberds)
Thrown weapons (javelins, knives, axes)
Axes, hammers, picks, swords, shortswords, daggers, katanas, flails

More than anything I want them to drop the stupid system of material types. Iron longsword, steel longsword, dwarven longsword... could it be any more uninspired?

Also completely agree with the poster above, Mount & Blade's combat system is nearly flawless

Brilliant! Then, we'll divide up Blunt into Hatchet, Two-Handed Axe, War Axe, Mace, Bigger Mace, Hammer, Maul, and Large Maul. While we're at it, we'll divide up Marksman too; Bow, Crossbow, Shuriken, Throwing Knife, and Dart! And then, just to add icing to the cake, Spear will be divided up into Long Spear, Short Spear, Halberd, Guisarme, Ransuer, Glaive, and Pole Axe. Perfect! Soon, unless you make all your major skills weapon skills, you won't be able to use anything you find, ever! Mission accomplished! The more complex the system the better, right?

Good enthusiasm! But it has to be reigned in to generally fit with the attributes. Some people take your method of splitting everything apart by type of weapon, but I prefer to split the skills by how you use the weapons. That's why axes and maces fall into the same category, or why greatswords and short swords are in different categories. I think when approached that way, you'd get a skill list like this one.

Strength
Greatsword
Mauls
Marksman
Staff
Large Mauls

Agility
Sword
Security/Tracking
Acrobatics
Stealth
Dodge

Speed
Concealed Weapons
Theft
Chain Weapons
Polearms
Athletics

Endurance
Hand to Hand
Equestrianism
Shield
Outdoorsman
Climbing

Personality
Illusion
Streetwise
Etiquette
Mercantile
Diplomacy

Willpower
Alteration
Enchanting
Restoration
Destruction
Thaumaturgy

Intelligence
Mysticism
Daedric
Necromancy
Alchemy
Medical

I hope that you propose an increase to the number of skills you can take in TES V to go along with your system of having a ridiculous number of skills. And I have to question the wisdom of some of your ideas for skills. Having both Medical and Restoration? Either one will end up hopelessly inferior to the other, or each will become pointless because the other is interchangeable with it. Diplomacy, Etiquette, and Streetwise? You realize that Speechcraft was already fairly useless in Oblivion as it was without forcing you to waste three skill slots on it, right? Thaumaturgy and Conjuration? I may be misunderstanding the meaning of Thaumaturgy, but, if I'm not mistaken, it's just long-term summoning. Seems pointless to have two Conjuration skills. Theft and Sneak? The system of pickpocketing with Sneak skill worked just fine in Morrowind and Oblivion; if there's nothing wrong, don't try to fix it. Shield and Block? What's the difference; why do you need two skills to cover the same thing? While I'm glad to see your propensity for wanting to force people to take ridiculous numbers of weapon skills just to have any amount of versatility is matched by your desire to do the same to mages and stealth characters, it is possible to take complexity too far. Forty skills? That's kind of excessive. That, and I just don't see the need for some of the skills you propose; Equestrianism? Horseback riding was fine in Oblivion, except the lack of mounted combat. It didn't need a skill to govern it. Dodge? The arrow keys or thumbsticks (depending on your platform) aren't good enough for you? Outdoorsman? What would you even do with that?

There's an ideal balance between streamlining and complexity when it comes to skill systems. Oblivion was a bit too simplistic for my taste with 21 skills, and Morrowind was fairly close to the mark with 30.

TES has never gone overboard with the number of skills. I agree that we need way more in general, but especially when it comes to weapons. Mount and Blade's was nice, but I wasn't too happy about needing power draw along with archery to be any good with bows and so on.

I was very happy with Morrowind's weapon skills actually. I really think Morrowind did it the best out of the 4. Shade's proposal works for me too, though. Just please don't disrespect swords and axes like you did in Oblivion.

P.S. I would love for streetwise and ettiqutte to return, along with the language skills. Speechcraft was useless in Oblivion because of the Mario party mini-game b.s., but that's a story for another thread. We need more non-combat skills, too.

P.P.S. "Dodge? The arrow keys or thumbsticks (depending on your platform) aren't good enough for you? "
Fail. It's not an action game. Moving back and forth to dodge attacks makes the game easy and lame, imo. Dodge skill is kind of redundant because of agility. But, then again it was useful in Daggerfall because of the lack of armor skills. I could go with Morrowind's armor skills or Daggerfall's dodging, but something in between might be best for me.

Daggerfall had that many. TES II handled that many skills by allowing the player to choose three primary skills, three major skills, and six minor skills. So, in all TES games (other than Arena where you didn't pick skills), you are able to choose 1/3rd of them.

Restoration might be getting absorbed into Thaumaturgy, I'm mulling that one over. But yes, I feel not everyone should be required to possess magical powers to help their healing. Medical allows for this.

Why worry about Oblivions way of doing it?

Thaumaturgy doesn't involve summoning. Thaumaturgy and Daedric would kinda be opposites in the game.

It didn't work well, and you shouldn't have to be a sneaky person to be a thief. Crouch-walking around a small store doesn't help you steal anything, it makes you look like you want to be caught.

There is just shield. Blocking will be handled by the weapon skill if you aren't using a shield.

I rarely even take two weapon skills in a TES game, but a list like this makes it attractive to take more.


What was fine about it? I hear a lot of complaints concerning this.

Character skill. The character doesn't have arrow keys.

The skill of wilderness survival. This skill increases your speed and extends the reach of your logistics when traveling or fast traveling. You can build basic shelters for the climate type, fleche arrows out of wood, get more meat and pelt from animals you kill, build more efficient fires, have greater ability catching fish, be able to avoid ambushes better, track enemies and animals to a greater degree, and conceal yourself in the wild. Characters without this skill will be better off staying in inns on their trips, and traveling in larger groups.

I think the system is straightforward enough, and it gives you a good level of choice and customization.

Are you thinking that say a wooden spear would be just as good as a steal spear???
Or a steal dagger just as good as a daedric dagger?