That can't be right...

Post » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:17 pm

Perhaps the biggest down side that I can see to the new system is that you're going to have to be careful about how many dungeons you visit at lower levels. If you visit too many, then you're going to be stuck with a lot of low level dungeons when you get at higher levels. That would definitely affect the difficulty of the game.


I agree with this 100%. This is my only worry about the new system. I don't want to just take off and explore 30 cool dungeons before level 10, only to come back to any of them later and find that they are the same. I mean, I guess it's kinda cool that I'd be stronger....but again, this seems to severely hamper the basics of dungeon diving and looting. I would hate to just ruin half of the dungeons that could otherwise be crazy hard at later levels. I guess that gives replayability....for other characters to do them in a different order :shrug:

I'm sure it will be fine, but will take some adjustment for me.
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Lew.p
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:20 am

I agree with this 100%. This is my only worry about the new system. I don't want to just take off and explore 30 cool dungeons before level 10, only to come back to any of them later and find that they are the same. I mean, I guess it's kinda cool that I'd be stronger....but again, this seems to severely hamper the basics of dungeon diving and looting. I would hate to just ruin half of the dungeons that could otherwise be crazy hard at later levels. I guess that gives replayability....for other characters to do them in a different order :shrug:

I'm sure it will be fine, but will take some adjustment for me.


You supposedly level up super fast early game so unless you pop in then leave you should be fine.
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ONLY ME!!!!
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:42 am

I am glad the dungeons aren't predetermined. I like the Radiant Story, so when I play a certain dungeon in one playthrough, my next character will find different enemies in that same dungeon.

I like the level locking...If i want extra money later on i can go to an easy cave and kill the enemies easily and get my money.
Also adds to the realism of not having other creatures inhabitting it.

I hope if they do change it, there is evidence of the previous inhabitants. Like if a cave was inhabitted by giant rats and was taken over by giant spiders who hunted the rats, i want to see rat bodies or skulls and meat.
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El Goose
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:03 am

Im not sure but I think they might mean the TYPE of monsters down there and the loot they carry will still level or else it would be stupid
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Meghan Terry
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:21 am

Im not sure but I think they might mean the TYPE of monsters down there and the loot they carry will still level or else it would be stupid


Why are you going back to a dungeon in the first place, that's what I don't understand, unless someone sends you there when you run out of close dungeons you have no reason.
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Bonnie Clyde
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:16 pm

exactly.



and I HOPE that items are not leveled, PLEEEEAAASSEEE NO. If I bob and weave through a level 25 dungeon at lvl 12 and somehow find an item of awesomeness and get out breathing, I DESERVE IT AS IS.


Definitely agree here.

I like their dungeon leveling algorithm, but the loot should not be touched by any faffery.
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michael danso
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:26 am

You supposedly level up super fast early game so unless you pop in then leave you should be fine.


While I assume this will keep it from becoming an issue, I still will have to adjust.

Why are you going back to a dungeon in the first place, that's what I don't understand, unless someone sends you there when you run out of close dungeons you have no reason.


Well, I could give you some examples: Vilverin in OB, I typically went back to about 5-10 times per playthrough, because I liked seeing the change, I liked the dungeon layout, and I used it for loot. And Fort Alessia, I used for harvesting heavy gear for selling and for practice against the marauders, and I typically went back 10 or so times.

As for Skyrim, I'll go back to enjoy the new design and uniqueness of the dungeons, getting more loot for money, as well as for enjoying pwning the level-locked enemies, I suppose. Does that make sense to you?
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HARDHEAD
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:29 am

Im not a fan of this level scaling system, mainly because it forces me to play the game they want me to play, instead of the other way around. One of the most enjoyable aspects of rpgs for myself, is to explore. If that means I encounter some difficult enemies at a low level.... So be it. That is the kind of challenge I want. I want to find places the force me to think tactically, or if it is too hard, to come back later when Ive grown in experience...

You see... TES games were originally designed for you to go anywhere you want, whenever, and you write your own story. If part of that story meant you stumbled upon a cave infested with undead creatures and necromancers unprepared, you either "hero'd it up" and stayed for a fight of strength and might, or you made a note to come back later with better equipment to find out why a necromancer was hiding behind an army of zombies....

I may end up forcing myself to buy and use a game guide just so I know which dungeons will be a challenge, and just skip all the crappy dungeons... *sigh*
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P PoLlo
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:04 pm

I would rather have level scaling. I like having a challenge each time I enter a dungeon. But level scaling should be applied to certain aspects of the game, like dungeons and such and not highwaymen robbing you for 100 gold while they are wearing 5000 gold armour.
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Franko AlVarado
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:31 pm

Im not a fan of this level scaling system, mainly because it forces me to play the game they want me to play, instead of the other way around. One of the most enjoyable aspects of rpgs for myself, is to explore. If that means I encounter some difficult enemies at a low level.... So be it. That is the kind of challenge I want. I want to find places the force me to think tactically, or if it is too hard, to come back later when Ive grown in experience...

You see... TES games were originally designed for you to go anywhere you want, whenever, and you write your own story. If part of that story meant you stumbled upon a cave infested with undead creatures and necromancers unprepared, you either "hero'd it up" and stayed for a fight of strength and might, or you made a note to come back later with better equipment to find out why a necromancer was hiding behind an army of zombies....

I may end up forcing myself to buy and use a game guide just so I know which dungeons will be a challenge, and just skip all the crappy dungeons... *sigh*


You can do that... you can also walk into a wolves den the dungeons are hand crafted not random, that's why they have specific level locks. If you go into a dwemer ruin you want to run into dwemer constructs which would be a certian level.
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abi
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:08 am

I'd rather have the dungeons already have a set level. I wouldn't mind walking into a dungeon, getting massacred, and then thinking to myself "You know what? I'll just come back to this one"


Yeah I agree. =) More... ahem... 'realistic'...

did I just say that?.... XD
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Lavender Brown
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:53 am

I like how OOO does it in oblivion, the more remote the dungeon the tougher it might be.

Guess we will have something similar here, so most of the dungeons close to the starting point will be low level while the remote ones will be high level.
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jesse villaneda
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:46 am

But then the first dungeon you go to could be a level 50 dungeon..


And that's a bad thing? I don't mind this at all and I missed it in OB. In Morrowind you could go past the fort by Balmora at level 1 and walk by the daedric ruins (I think it was NE of the fort, could be wrong) and stumble upon dremora, fire atronach's, clanfear's, and scamps. Not just what was level appropriate. You actually had to take care in where you went in the wilds. And it made going into random caves/ruins you found more intense as you didn't know what was in there.

I'd rather have the dungeons already have a set level. I wouldn't mind walking into a dungeon, getting massacred, and then thinking to myself "You know what? I'll just come back to this one"


This.
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Tiffany Holmes
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:05 am

I hate that idea. It should be preselected before you enter, and then stay static, rather than adjucting to your level.
Same feeling here. :foodndrink:

But then the first dungeon you go to could be a level 50 dungeon..
Yes! :chaos:
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LADONA
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:09 am

Me, level 1. Dungeon, level 50. Sounds good. I want the challenge, and having my ass handed to me at times.
People should like this new system. Especially those that tried to control their leveling in Oblivion. Now you have an incentive to level up.
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Tessa Mullins
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:56 am

Advantages of Static Dungeons:
Inhabitance are always going to be what they are set at. They won't get weaker for the player.
Loot is likely to be static as well, meaning it will be worth working through that hard dungeon.
There's a chance of wandering into the wrong place and seeing something that will haunt you for the rest of your days.

Advantages of Level Floors and Ceilings:
Inhabitance will pay attention to how strong the player is. You won't feel restricted, and like you're forced to follow a specific order in which the dungeon's are suppose to be beaten.

When you're all but a devine, the monsters will try to get harder to try and keep the game dificult and thus fun.
Loot will be within the range of the dungeon level, so it will be worth going through the hard dungeons.
There's a chance to wander into a 40-50 dungeon at level 5 and seeing something that will haunt you for the rest of your days.

That's all I can think of, so the winner is Fallout 3's level floor and celing system. :shrug:
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Brad Johnson
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:06 am

Maybe SOME dungeons will scale or SOME would reset over a long period of time and have a huge random encounter list like 30lvl-60lvl

edit: I want it random "I visited this dungeon a week ago and killed its wolf inhabitants. I imagine some more have come back so I guess I'll check it out." (opens door)"Elite Marauders!? Run away!!!"
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Stace
 
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Post » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:58 pm

Same feeling here. :foodndrink:

Yes! :chaos:


First quest from the fighters guild is to clear a dungeon of some bandits. It's randomly chosen to be a level 50 dungeon, congrats you just lost the game.

Your mistaking difficulty with a broken game mechanic.
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Gwen
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:09 am

It also wouldn't make sense if everytime you revisited a place it was inhabited by tougher things. Where were the tough things when you first went in?



Natural Selection. By killing off the weaklings, the walking tanks take over.
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Vickytoria Vasquez
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:59 am

The game does not lock the dungeon to your exact level, but the closest level of its level range to your level. As mentioned earlier, say a dungeon was a level 5-10 dungeon. If you enter the dungeon at level 3, it locks to level 5, its closest level to you. If you enter at any level between 5 and 10, it will lock to your current level. If you enter at level 20, it will lock to level 10, its highest level and closest one to your level.

This. I have no problem with the way they mention so far. Also,some people are forgetting....I'll use your example: say your level 20 and go to a level 5-10 cave etc,that locks to the higest level ,10.But,don't forget also,there is a system were we can get more enemies. So say you enter the level 5-10 dungeon at 20,and that has ,say,5 trolls in it,because it's a level 10 dungeon,and your level 20,the number of trolls/eneimes could increase also.So in effect there is always a slight challenge. :)

So now,that dungeon could have 8-10 trolls instead of 5 etc....seems ok to me.

Note: Morrowinds system was great,until you reached a certain high level. If it was more consistant,up through the higher levels too,that way would be nigh on perfect.Also morrowind had more dice rolling in it too,which also has an effect on the difficulty,enemy level etc. There is more than one factor in it ,when refering to morrowind.
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LuCY sCoTT
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:06 am

Yeah, I'm sure it will be fine though.
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Flash
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:49 am

I am fine with whatever they decide to do.

I enjoyed Morrowind's system once I figured it out, and I enjoyed Oblivion's system equally well.
The exceptions would be the lack of research or time that the devs took which was made apparent by their misjudging the player skill maximums.
By this I mean that, unless you are cheating, there should be a monster specifically designed to be challenging for your level, all the way to the cap.
I'm not saying the devs did this on purpose, perhaps they didn't have time to make enough variety of monsters.

But, if you want to know my idea of an epic system:
Each main city should be an origin point for people. Many people would find it hard to exist in the poor economy and would decide to be an outlaw, adventurer, bandit, marauder, etc.
Each main city would have a different level range for NPC's, a 0-10 city, 10-20 city, etc. probably based on combat training services or something.
There should also be a main forest area with similar situation for creatures.

Next, NPC's and creatures would be simulated to spread out around from their major birth/spawn locations and discover dungeons and caves. Exactly which creatures, nobody will ever be sure. Also, NPC's will want to frequently fight along their adventures to hone their skills, and meeting monsters, and so they can find an attractive dungeon which they will call their own, and bring all of their loot back to it when they want to relax. To make it easier, each type of creature and NPC class will be attracted to a different dungeon style, so it's not quite as mysterious what is inside.

This brings us to items. I think that a large group of weaker beings should be able to mob up on a few stronger ones, and then raid their dungeon for epic loot, or a small group of super strong beings could raid weak ones, just like you can. They may decide to stay, or they may decide to go to their original dungeon, and have that surprise epic loot in a chest for safe keeping. This would make questing for epic loot impossible to cheat at on your next playthrough, although there may be plenty of dungeons that are magically guarded, with items that only you can grab. The armor that they wear should be based on the nearby economy, not so much based on their level, since if you can go to the big city and buy epic armor, then your enemies should be able to as well.

Furthermore! You should be able to have the same questing options that they have. You could form a band of merry marauders and plunder an awesome dungeon, and decide to stay there! Just wait a while and maybe they have a few battles with other bandits that are adventuring, and gain some great items, or maybe make friends with them and add to your ranks, or maybe they will be all wiped out, and hopefully you run your boots off and survive. Someone in your group might decide you are weak, and want to challenge you in the main room, or stealthy betrayal, or mutiny!

Anyways, that's just my view, but I'm fine with whatever traditional level scaling random spawn thing they decide upon.
(Please excuse my over-use of the word EPIC...)
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Jade MacSpade
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:47 am

First quest from the fighters guild is to clear a dungeon of some bandits. It's randomly chosen to be a level 50 dungeon, congrats you just lost the game.

Your mistaking difficulty with a broken game mechanic.


Do you think the devs would be dumb enough to flag a dungeon intended for an entry level quest as 40-50? If it is always the same dungeon assigned for that quest, then they'd assign that dungeon to be a 5-10 dungeon. If the dungeon is selected randomly via the Radiant Story mechanic, then I'm sure they would script the game such that the dungeon that is selected becomes a 5-10 dungeon. Let's give them slightly more credit than that they would entice a low level character to go to a level 50 dungeon. Sure, it is cool if you can go there completely freely due to the sandbox nature of the game, but handing dialogue and quest logs to someone who is level 1-10 that point them to a level 50 dungeon? Very little faith in the devs if you think that they would do that no matter what type of level system they go with.
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Racheal Robertson
 
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Post » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:19 pm

The dungeons are plit into 5-10 dungeons, and 15-20 dungeons.

They will adjust inhabitants to the closest level you are when you first enter:

eg. you enter a 5-10 cave when you are level 4, the inhabitants will permanantely lock at level 5

you enter a cave at level 14 for the first time, the inhabitants will permanently lock at level 15

ahhh at first i was like..."what thats [censored] what if i go in a ton of dungeons at level 10 so now theyre all set to level 10?" but now it makes much more sense and i will prefer this system compared to OB. MW's was fine too, i'd be happy with either or.
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Mimi BC
 
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Post » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:04 am

Do you think the devs would be dumb enough to flag a dungeon intended for an entry level quest as 40-50? If it is always the same dungeon assigned for that quest, then they'd assign that dungeon to be a 5-10 dungeon. If the dungeon is selected randomly via the Radiant Story mechanic, then I'm sure they would script the game such that the dungeon that is selected becomes a 5-10 dungeon. Let's give them slightly more credit than that they would entice a low level character to go to a level 50 dungeon. Sure, it is cool if you can go there completely freely due to the sandbox nature of the game, but handing dialogue and quest logs to someone who is level 1-10 that point them to a level 50 dungeon? Very little faith in the devs if you think that they would do that no matter what type of level system they go with.


I'm talking to the people who want completely random level'd dungeons. In case you weren't paying attention I've explained the actual system numerous times to people who don't get it but they don't seem to listen.

I love the level caps.
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Lauren Denman
 
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