So, first, before any comments are made I'd like everyone to see this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1MqksXm6Zs&feature=player_detailpage#t=1830s

After watching it a few times over - I've come to realize that describes Skyrim perfectly. (And while everyone in the civil war is rather static and boring, that isn't the main point to be made)

Ultimately, in a theoretical perspective, you're suppose to have an epic tale of a reluctant hero who is supposedly (without him even realizing it at any point in his or her life) destined to stop the 'End of the Material World' and at the side-lines you have one of the largest civil wars within the Empire - while not as large as The War of the Red Diamonds this is ultimately a large civil war where the Empire has to personally send legions upon legions in an attempt to keep order to a region that is 'chaotic' and in danger of succession.

...However it isn't that at all. In a practical sense and how it's actually played pit - it's much liek Star Wars! It's not really important. It's just there to give purpose to the prophecy made - where Nords shed their own blood that signal the return of the dragons. Other than that it has no purpose and is ultimately not a war at all.

There are no real big consequences if the player does not choose a side besides some cities transfer sides during some quest to get some temporary peace that ultimately has no real point rather than to just push the main thing along. That the player fights dragons and is dumb. (I say this because - what is the real concept of the Dovahkiin besides some person who is given a destiny? He doesn't earn his rank as a hero besides fighting dragons, he is just instantly recognized and given the glory after killing one dragon with aid from people and gets the dragon soul. It's just, to me, an [ALMA] slap in the face due to the lack-of-work involved.)

For really what is the civil war? Apparently there are Imperials and Rebels, but they (unlike in the Star Wars prequels) don't even attempt invasions until the player joins one side. Meaning that the player is the catalyst for the civil war to kick in again which has no point. Other than the allure of one side over the other (Peace vs Self Determination) there is no real big thing besides in teh first mission to drive the player to one side or the other. aka the torture chambers and almost getting your head cut off.

But what really happens in the course of the civil war before the player joins in does the player have to align to one side? Or see the negative affects of one side. You can't use the grey quarter in that it never changes. It remains there and the Dunmer are not glad that some leader 'may' help them but more so that Ulfric is dead. They just wanted him dead and perhaps their stories of oppression were just overstatements besides being heckled by some drunkards. The Argonians aren't fixed.

And in no other province do we see something that changes for the better.

So really we could be without the civil war and the main story wouldn't be affected at all. Skyrim would be ultimately the same, nothing really changed!

The only thing we see are talos worshippers and stormcloak prisoners being taken away from unseen and unknown battle that the player may never participate in, the various encampments of Imperials and Stormcloaks never ride off to battle or go to raid supplies. It's worse than the "Clones Wars"! Due to the fact it is completely static and when one does play into the civil war - we are given nothing but the same exact quests but in different styles. Save the Stormcloaks! Rescue the Imperials! Defend Whiterun! Take whiterun!

Nothing really is given to make me sympathize with one side or the other besides some really crappy thingies that they did in Fallout 3 and Obsidian did in Fallout NV. Give us some bull pros and cons that make no logic and are only there to try and persuade the player to make a choice rather than do with clever rewards, what they stand for or how the others affect them.

1. Offer that the Stormcloaks that, while are fighting for self-determination, are somehow racist. How? Why? Uh...Well some guy told me! Yeah, yeah! He told me that Ulfric doesn't aid Khajit caravans..that I never really see in danger...and nobody really helps them because if they do get attacked they're far away..or a dragon comes..Well there's those drunkwards! They heckle that woman for a while..and it never happens again. Guess the mead told them not to...Well those argonians!..Except that those Argonians don't get help from the Imperials either..kinda impossible for them to work there anyway due to climate conditions. How are they racist again?

2. Offer the Imperials, while brutal, are simply trying to keep the peace. But this doesn't really equate because the guards also offer peace so really the Imperials just want to make sure the Empire stays together - they don't have any condolences towards the complaints the Nords or Stormcloaks offer. They just want the Empire to be together and fight the Thalmor some other time. So, really, the only side factor that's suppose to make us side with the Imperials are the Thalmor divide us humies up. But then, does it really justify putting down a well-meaningfuly revolt in support of a brutal Autocrat whom controls an Empire and has a Council as more so a rubber stamp as well as something to try and persuade people to maintain support for the Empire? While the Ends can justify the means, what ends are we talking about? An Empire. Empires usually be bad, and if you say otherwise then how does one empire differ from another? Isn't the point of an Empire to rule many nations under one-rule and gain as much from it as one possibly can? Be it power, money or simply territorial expansion. Though these can all be the things one seek when ruling an Empire, and really if the Cyrodillic Empire can be justifable why not the Russian Empire? Or the Napoleonic Empire? What about dem Reichs? Or the Byzantines or Ottomans? Because when you justify one empire - why not justify the rest? What really differs this one made-up Empire which says it promotes a benevolent rule than the other dozen or so successful Empires that do the exact same thing?

So really even in the logic of the game that somehow the Stormcloaks fighting for independence and against putting down Talos worship, really the Talos worship is limited to us seeing Thalmor agents take unknowing worshippers and one quest in Markarth. that one guy openly preaching Talos thingies is never taken up by Whiterun guards, even though guards are suppose to uphold both regional law and Imperial law. Because while Whiterun is "neutral" in the civil war, typically the guards still maintain the law of the Empire and of the Jarl. And at current the Empire says no Talos worship. So unless the Jarl is deciding to commit high treason (as seen with Ulfric saying everyone can worship Talos) then really why aren't the Imperial legions being harassed by the Thalmor justicars to forcibly remove the Jarl? I mean the Thalmor go [ALMA] and complain about everything else, but they somehow won't try to spice things up by making the Legion go into Whiterun and making the Civil War worse? Because that -is- their main plan all along. To prevent the civil war from ending and making it all together worse for Skyrim and the Empire.

But apparently they don't. Nor do they really help the Empire or halt the Stormcloaks in any missions. They just sit round and go 'aw poop. Empire lost' or 'aw poop. Stormcloaks lost'. If their main plan is to forcibly continue the civil war, then why do they just sit around and do nothing like Palpatine? really their the same. Palpatine and the Thalmor. They're suppose to be the secret main villains yet they really do these amateur mistakes or sometimes nothing at all to help promote their plan.

Because what is more so implied is the Empire (this being by the Stormcloaks so maybe so maybe not so. Dis game is made for advlts so eh) can not really say 'No' to the Thalmor concerning any their issues because of the White-Concordant Treaty which makes the Empire the reluctant bottom to the Thalmor. Yet while Tullius grumble grumbles, the Thalmor don't really do that sort of thing. They never force or make Jarls or the Imperials do what they want despite the fact that they hold this magical document which has peace between these two powers.

So do they really have this 'great power' or not?

IN THE END, post your own thoughts on this review and stuff. And the civil war. And stuff.

Gameplay =/= Lore. The bulk of your complaints pretty much come down to "The game talks about, but doesn't show me, X". Morrowind's MQ was pretty much dependent on the player too, so how is this any different? You'd never start having dreams about Dagoth Ur, or see an increase in the number of dreamers or Corprus beasts outside the Ghostfence if you just threw your package to Caius Cosades away at the start and went off to join the Fighters Guild. Hell, even when you do the MQ, there's never a real sense that Vvardenfell is in any immediate danger.

Also, for all your talk of it being static and uninteresting, you bring up a lot of moral gray areas in the civil war questline. One of the Stormcloaks' most effective pieces of propaganda is the Talos worship line. But we can see that the Empire doesn't do much to enforce it in the provinces (kind of like US national policy on marijuana or same-six marriage. Officially, both are illegal, but the states can still get away with it).

Or the Empire's talks about keeping the peace and the greater good, but as you point out, this is the first Cyrodiilic empire that doesn't have the weight of divine mandate behind it. So what's the difference between Titus Mede and any other power-hungry warlord with a sword?

The civil war is, at least to me, actually one of the most interesting and meaningful questlines this series has seen since Daggerfall.