Who do you hate most? I don't really hate any of the playable races in TES. Even if i could, i wouldn't change a thing. The 10 current races is perfect and offer something for almost everybody. I was hoewever never very fond of Bosmers and Redguards. Since i imagine manny would vote on the Bosmers, and not many would vote on the Redguards, that was what i did.

Who is your favourite? Nords. No doubt about that. About 50% of all my characters is Nord. I also have a thing for Khajiits. Dunmers and Altmers is cool too. I don't really understand the hate the Altmers get. It is so cool with a snobbish race like that. Imagine TES without the Altmer, it would really be a giant lose.

Wait, that's proven? How?

I always thought it was one of those "well he's Divayth Fyr, of course he escaped" scenarios. While It's very unlikely that he died, I don't think there's any good proof about it, is there?

How will the Dunmer come back? I mean, eventually, they will do, of course, but what will they consist of? I doubt there are enough survivors to bring back house Dres/Indoril/whatever else. Perhaps they'll all form together to form one big "stereotypial Dunmer" house, all about slavery and tradition? Hating Argonians even more for beating on them? I would think Redoran and Telvanni would be fine, in their own personal strongholds. A three way government? What about Hlaalu? I think it would make sense that a lot of them would go travel Tamriel. I could imagine a lot of them in Cyrodiil, being the capital of trade.

What about the Tribunal? Do you think they'll still worship them in as a sort of "jesus"? I think it could work quite well.

And about the previous thread, where you was asking for me: I do play the games, you know I had actually typed a killer essay on the subject, but it had been locked before I could send it <_<.


Woah, woah woah. What? They're completely ruining Altmer culture, there. The Altmer are one of the races we all love to hate. No one likes oppresive superioritists, but it's what makes the Altmer. I really hope that doesn't happen. That's like Nords without scottish accents, or Orcs without hammers! What a world, what a world!

Dislike the Altmer and everything they stand for. I really don't like their "gold.skin" and their weakness. And just because there ancesters came from the divines realm does not make them holy!

Well, it was the new King who outlawed slavery, and Redoran and Indoril started losing power by the time Oblivion rolled around.



http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-third-edition-temple-morrowind

I know. :shrug:

I think they finally got sick of themselves and started loving to hate themselves. You know that happens with tons of ethnocentric societies, right? The young eventually decide they've had it with the old ways and want to become more accepting, the change can be good... or it can be bad.

But they're destroying their own cities and royalty over in Summerset Isles, and letting more and more people into high positions of people outside of their race. Maybe the elders will kick the "whippersnappers" back into place, or maybe the Altmer will be changed forever...


Well actually, according to that religion all people came from the Divines. The only difference between the elves and the beast races and men is that the Elves stayed in Aldmeris while the Men and Beasts "wandered". I used quotations because nobody knows is Aldmeris is a continent or not. What I think happened is the Elves stayed as long as they could with the Aedra while the Men and Beasts were one of the ones who actively decided to become mortal. Which would probably be while the Men and the Beasts would be supportive of Lorkhan, while the Elves would be angry with him because they were forced to become part of the Earth while the Men and Beasts did it willingly.

The Altmer believe they're better because they've specifically bred to be more like the Aldmer (first elves), so in their minds they're the most "god-like".

None of the houses, in general, apart from Hlaalu, I believe, supported Helseth. If he and his rule is now gone, I would imagine people going back to the what they see as the right way. I think everything, apart from Redoran and Telvanni (maybe Hlaalu) has fallen apart. They may be weakened, but they still survive. But, there are survivors in southern Morrowind. A lot of them. Not enough to reform the old houses, but I would imagine enough stereotypical Dunmer are still around to form one big, religious, enslaving house. I could really imagine three new major political influences, now in Morrowind. If Hlaalu survives, I don't think they'll last very long, what with so many "traditional" Dunmer hating the Imperial sympethisers. 3v1 wars could break out.

I'm actually really looking forward to see how this all effects Morrowind's politics, now. ^_^

By "people worshipping the tribunal similar to "jesus"", I mean, as in, they died a long time ago, yet people still worship them. I mean, at least in the public eye, the Tribunal were the greatest things to sweep the face of Nirn. They never once wrong anyone, and helped people constantly. I can't imagine people like that just disappearing from all religion, because they lost their power. :shrug:

It is assumed in the next games that the player chose the "Good Guy" route. It is also a Rumor in Oblivion the Neravarine and Vivec went Akavir. Other rumors suggest it was Nerevarine that went to Akavir and Vivec disappeared. Either way they are BOTH GONE.

:) It does sound interesting.

And they probably would still keep on worshiping them, but in a less direct way.

The only problem I have with believingit is that Almalexia went crazy and killed Sotha Sil (nobody believes you anyway), so they've disappeared from the public eye, and then Vivec disappeared for whatever reason and nobody knows where they are. Then the worst thing that's ever happened to them hits, and the Tribunal is nowhere to be found, and they have no one.

The Priest at Kvatch and all of the civilians sort-of makes me think of how the Dunmer might feel about the Tribunal now that they've all disappeared.


I never heard about the Neravarine and Vivec going to Akavir, just the Neravarine. I might have missed it.

People don't know if Vivec has been killed or not, he's just disappeared. Some say he's been taken by the daedra, others have no clue as to where he went. It's under Current events http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-third-edition-temple-morrowind.

It'd be safer to say the Tribunal were Messianic Figures rather than Jesus.

As I read anyway its the Temple that has the REAL power, even while Vivec and Almalexia were around.

I hate Redguards because they were always dikes to me in Morrowind. Although it was kind of funny when Wayn [at the balmora fighter's guild] said to me "what a horrible outfit" Even though I was wearing the same clothes as him... :facepalm:

I love the Dunmer because they are just so interesting! And the Nords because I am all about norse mythology. :grad:

It's alright, its just a pet peeve of mine. :laugh:

I don't like any sort of mer, but I have never wanted to stab more NPCs than when I was wandering around Vvardenfell. Between the Ordinators, Tribunal and the Camonna Tong the Dunmer get my vote as most hated.

Which means what? Nerevarine was pretty much a puppet of the Azura who did what she said. She complained at the end of "Tribunal" expansions that the Vivec lived if you hadn't killed him. I expect that most players went straight to Vivec to kill him after hearing this.

I don't really understand this poll. Am I to specify whom I hate in terms of lore, culture etc. or should I judge the races by their racial traits?

I hate the Dunmer, but I think they are great lore-wise. Same about Altmer.

Sure, Imperials are manipulative, but I prefer them than anyone else. They are just like Romans - they are terrible, but they created a grand civilisation. That's how empires are born.

Let's just look at the alternatives here:

Dunmer would enslave everyone. Enough said. From the perspective of other Tamrielic denizens, it's good that they got their butts kicked. Otherwise, they would be very dangerous after the the fall of the Empire.

Redguards are incapable of creating an empire like the one the Imperials created. They are independent spirits and I doubt that any kind of unification is possible in the near future.

Nords have potential. They are hardy and dependable. Not as furious as the Orcs, not as fiery as the Redguards. Nords living in other provinces would probably lose many of their racial traits over the centuries and became similar to Imperials.

Khajiit - right. First, they should create a standing army. Then we can talk. I can't see them conquering anyone - well, maybe they would be able to take some territory, but they wouldn't be able to hold it for a long time. Let the kitties eat sugar in peace.

Orcs - they are on the rise, but they are far from creating an empire. Besides, I don't think we need Middle Ages of Tamriel. Too brutal, too uncivilised.

Bosmer - they lost against Khajiit. They are not going to create an empire.

Bretons - they will probably fight with themselves. More arrogant and crazy Imperials. Riiiiiiight... We don't need those ruling Tamriel.

Altmer - they are powerful, but with revolution going on, I don't think they are in position of conquering anyone. Besides, they would only be slightly better than the Dunmer.

Argonians - they are a mystery to me. I always thought that while Argonia is unconquerable, Argonians are not going to pose any threat to Tamriel. Also, they were always overshadowed by the Dunmer. However, now when they managed to take Morrowind, their position is better. They could be formidable - immune to most diseases and versatile. I can see them easily becoming cocky and ruthless, though. Never trust an Argonian...

I don't understand why some people hate elves specifically, they're all so different...

How is creating a "great civilisation" always a good thing? Sure, the lives of those who are all for the empire are better, but those who ENJOY their own ways, their own culture, and their own freedoms are totally crushed, and there's nothing they can do against it.

And what's a cushy lifestyle in comparison to culturally unique lifestyles?

And I don't think the Altmer are better than the Dunmer. The Altmer hate everyone, and think they're superior in every way. People aren't even allowed access to some cities. The Dunmer just hate everyone. The Dunmer are basically the same as the Altmer. They broke off due to different opinions. Some of those opinions made them less arrogant and cocky.

And the Dunmer never tried to take over all of Tamriel, like the Altmer and Imperials. They're fine with leaving people to their own ways, and not forcing their own religions and beliefs on people.

Also, the Dunmer enslaved out of want for slaves. They wanted them to make their lives easier. The Altmer want them just to show how they're more superior than everyone else. "Mer are better than Men. We demand the right to enslave all mankind!".

Not that I hate them. I love their culture, and really look forward to some kind of awesome religious structure. Their arrogance makes them. It' really quite interesting.

Telvanni cities? I know that it didn't work like that in Morrowind Vanilla, but it's heavily implied in lore.


Dunmer weren't powerful enough to take on Tamriel and they aren't stupid, BTW. They live long lives. They could wait. Besides, Temple is just wicked. They didn't respect anyone.

Morrowind was the last province to abolish slavery.

I agree that the Altmer and Dunmer are similar in many ways. It looks like Altmer will become more open-minded eventually (currently they have enough problems of their own) and Dunmer are defanged now. Therefore, I don't think either of them will pose a threat in the near future.


Imperials are fine with your ways, as long as you do business with them and admit that they are more powerful than you are -> Hlaalu example. They are like the Romans or the Americans. Not good, but it could always be worse.

EDIT:
I just saw this:

House of Telvanni is probably there, but they are as secluded as always.

House of Redoran was weak. They were too traditional and Ald'ruhn is no more.

House of Indoril was extremely weak.

House of Dres and Hlaalu were powerful.

With Argonians in control and that Vvardenfell catastrophe I can imagine that Dunmer are screwed.

I'm not sure this has a place in this forum, thats a debate for University or something. I wasn't arguing whether its good or not, but rather, I was making a historical connections.

I think that was only certain cities. Also, there where rules about The Mage's Guild being the only ones allowed to offer training to non members. There where even quests trying to remove the laws. I imagine the Telvanni were against it.


Yes they where. Three gods ccan take on the world. They just relly didn't care. I mean, Tiber took over Tamriel with Numidium...


And this is something they share with the Altmer


And the last to accept Imperial rule. If it wasn't for the Imperials, no enslaving race would have abolished it. It just goes to show that the Dunmer are strong, eve without the tribunal helping.


I hope not. Dunmer and Altmer arrogance makes them. I love the way they are. Removing that would just remove all culture and awesomeness from them.


Anyway, I think we're going in circiles again

I doubt it. Tribunal was powerful, but they couldn't conquer whole Tamriel by themselves. They would have done so if they were able to. Dunmer were not the only ones that had tricks up their sleeves. Just imagine Akatosh appearing sooner or sth. Actually, Imperials were able to take some territory from the Dunmer before conducting peace.


They were strong but weaker than the Empire. Now they are weaklings. BTW Black Marsh wasn't conquered but it submitted, too. They just knew that it was the best option they had.


Dunmer will probably only get more pissed.

Don't imagine that all Altmer in the world will suddenly start to love foreign cultures. It will be a slow process, but unlike that jungle->temperate forest crap, it makes sense and it can make things even more interesting in the future.


Mages Guild is terrible, but Telvanni are a bunch of cruel freaks.

Three fully fledged gods (and the Tribunal where as powerful as any other god) could easily overpower an avatar of an Aedra. Which, by definition, is weak, due to the creation of everything. AND it's only an Avatar.

You really underestimate the power of Kagrenac's tools. The Tribunal could easily make it rain hellfire on another province, when they where fully powerful, but they just really didn't care.

They flooded all of Morrowind... they were a force to be reckoned with.

Didn't they even defeat Mehrunes Dagon at one point and send him back to Oblivion?

Marut - Yes they did. And it was Vivec who flooded Morrowind IIRC.

However...


(...) if they were so powerful, then why didn't they prevent Imperial invasion of Morrowind? Why they lost? Why they allowed some of "their" people to be killed by the Imperials?

They would turn Tamriel into slaving grounds for the Dunmer if they could. But they couldn't. Remember - they were not the only powerful entities in the world and their power wasn't without limits. If Daedra can be beaten (Mehrunes Dagon has not only been beaten by Akatosh - god of TIME, BTW - but any potential Daedric attack on Tamriel has been made impossible), so do the Tribunal. You don't have to kill them, but I imagine that creating a magical prison or sth would be feasible.

Yep. This is exactly my point.

About Dagon: If it was just one of the Tribunal fighting him, there would have been an equal fight. It could have went either way, they're completely matched (except maybe for Dagon's Deadra - The Tribunal only have Mortals that live once)

It took only Almalexia and Sotha Sil to take him down. Now, if two of the Tribunal have the power to do something like that, imagine what ALL THREE would be able to do. And remember, this was all before Ur became such a threat.



By the time the Imperials were more than a petty nuisance, the Tribunal had lost their power. At least enough to be mortal again. They wouldn't risk such a thing.

Akatosh avatar took Dagon on its own and sealed the "jaws" of Oblivion in the process. No Daedric attacks on Tamriel in the near future.

As I said, a 1v1 god fight can go either way. Akatosh got lucky. Also, this was a real lore breaker. The Aedra are supposed to be significantly weaker due to the creation of everything. What ridiculous lore did they make up in 5 minutes for this one?

The main difference between Daedra and Aedra is the fact that the first can't be killed, but they can be beaten. The second ones can be killed, but they are powerful nonetheless. Akatosh can't be messed with. Even heard of Dragon Break? Besides, the first "Dragon Break" was caused by mortals. That only implies that "gods" aren't completely untouchable.

Also, the Dwemer were able to question the power of the so-called "gods" themselves. They were just mortals.

Azura was pissed with the Tribunal and in fact created the modern Dunmer. Tribunal did nothing about it.

Tamriel is so full of ancient rituals, powerful entities, gods etc. that no single creature (well, even three of them), no matter how powerful it is, can conquer the whole world by themselves. It would be just ridiculous.

Just look at poor Jyggalag's fate. He/she wasn't killed at all. He was just imprisoned in the most gruesomely possible way :mellow: I imagine that would happen if some gods tried to conquer the world.

BTW an interesting quote from characters role-played by Ted Peterson:

Therefore, the devs WANT us to wonder why Vivec didn't do this or that. My opinion is that Tribunal power is exaggerated by myths and tradition. They certainly had their weaknesses. It just isn't feasible to think that this power-hungry bunch wouldn't conquer Tamriel if they had the means available. Also, maybe various "gods" and godlike creatures like to let the things flow naturally, i.e. lands being conquered by swords and fireballs, because of fear that if one god conquered it all, it would make him/her powerful enough to challenge other "gods", assuming that godlike creatures can be made more powerful by their believers (magic). Gods may be less afraid of mortals than the other gods - I think that they will regret this one day...