Since the Enclave is pretty much done, the only group that is holding back progress is the Brotherhood of Steel. Raiders and Super Mutants are more about accomplishing their own goals rather than holding back progress. It is just that accomplishing their goals has the unintended side effect of holding back progress.

Well, Black Isle also showed us a government forming and bringing some civilization to the area: the NCR. I agree that Bethesda have been reasonable with their time jumps, but it'd be more believable and (in my opinion) more interesting if a similar government had sprung up on the east cost. I honestly thought "The Commonwealth" was an NCR-like government from the way it was described (however briefly) in FO3.




You're mistaken. There's a few decades between Arena and Oblivion (30-50 years, not gonna look it up because I'm on my phone), but there are 200 years between Oblivion and Skyrim. Battlespire was around the same time as Arena and Daggerfall, Redguard was about 400 years earlier, and ESO is a few centuries before that.

I approach the lore like reading a comic book

when you were a little kid and you read comics, did you question the realism? or get all OCD about the plotline? xD

just enjoy the game

I thought ESO takes place in the 1st era, 4000 years before SK?

Current me if I'm wrong but fallout Is fiction right?


Stories don't need to be realistic. Most of my favourite stories are outlandish

OP can you explain how food (like those porta-dinner things or salisbury steak laying around) haven't decomposed? I completely agree with the 200 year thing, things would be much better off. But it's just a sci fi video game so who cares?

Or how about the silly aliens and impossible mutations, or everything about Ghouls?

These things aren't really supposed to matter as long as the game is fun and writing/plot is tight.

You're right, I originally misread your comment, but if I had read it right I would have said "so what"? What does technological progression have to do with the points we were making. We weren't talking about forward progressing we're talking about getting back to a place we were at like 250 years prior. Technological progression has very little to do with the likelihood of settlers banding together to protect themselves, forming civilizations, cleaning up their immediate suroundings and building something more than a shack. All of this is technology that has been in the fallout universe for more than 300 years (and thousands of years longer in terms of forming civilizations)

Not exactly, prior to the arrival of the first humans there were no raiders. Raiders came out of the regular population stock. So the first humans to the area after the war would have no raiders. Some of them eventually become raiders but it would unlikely be the first group there. The game isn't realistic there isn't enough civilized settlers to support the number of raiders in the game. Every nook and cranny is crammed with raiders. In reality if faced with that ratio there would be nothing left to raid.

It also doesn't make sense that they're camped out at radar stations, junkyards etc etc. There's nothing there. It would make more sense for them to simply take over sanctuary. Keep the original settlers and slave labor and basically set themselves up.

that doesn't jive with fallout lore though since we know it happened at least twice in the west (NCR and Legion).

The point of the thread is that after 200 years, it is unrealistic for people to still live in shacks. Settlers protecting themselves, forming civilizations, cleaning up their immediate surroundings, and building something more advanced than a shack all requires technology that was no longer usable. How are wastelanders supposed to protect themselves from Raiders, Super Mutants, Deathclaws, and Feral Ghouls without working radios and weapons? How are wastelanders able to build something more advanced than a shack or clean up downtown Boston without working construction equipment and fuel? The simple answer is that technology is a necessity for wastelanders to actually live instead of just survive.

The Great War pushed back technological progress by hundreds of years so the first stage of technological progress is relearning what was lost. We had to do the exact same thing after the fall of the Roman Empire. There was a ton of ruins available from the Roman Empire, but they were completely useless either due to people not understanding how they work or require serious amount of maintenance. Technological progress is required for a group of people to start living instead of just surviving. If it took about 1000 years for us to go from just surviving to actually living, then 200 years is nothing especially with the dangers of Raiders, Feral Ghouls, Super Mutants, Deathclaws, and other extremely dangerous wildlife. After all, our current rate of technological progress is extremely rare as far as the history of the world is concerned and there is a very high chance that civilization will cease to exist and it will be another thousand years before the next Renaissance happens.

The biggest problem with Fallout in terms of "realism" is that it was created without a basic understanding how agriculture changes society. We know that in fallout the great war did not wipe out the knowledge that the agrarian revelation provided. We now that it did not eliminate the scientific method we see MULTIPLE examples of the FO universe where science and the scientific method are alive and well. This means that the chaos we see in the game is unrealistic. Agrarian cultures create city states and city states create order and order furthers stability. Stability promotes wealth growth and wealth growth promotes capital investment which is most obvious in construction of buildings. And all of these things promote population growth. there is no getting around it Fallout ISN'T realistic by any stretch of the imagination

Bust realism isn't the benchmark for fun. Games should be fun and since realism isn't a requirement for fun fallout doesn't have to be realistic.

That is a fallacy.

In the real world power has traditionally been held by 3 groups since the agrarian societies emerged in the fertile crescent.

1) The nobility

2) The priesthood

3) the peasantry this sometimes gets split into the peasants and merchants

If you add a 4th power base you create MORE reasons for technology growth not less.

The nobility will have to share power now with the priesthood and arcanists who can wield magic. This will prompt the nobility to look for ways to mimic or duplicate the power the Arcanists can wield. The priesthood would look for ways to appear to have power as well lest some Arcanist profess to be divine and uses magic to show his/her divine power. People seek power and they seek to overcome the power others wield over them. It is the reason why new religions arise as it is a way to take power from an existing priesthood. Why wouldn't a noble seek a way to water his crops though irrigation technologies vs relying on the Arcanist to make it rain? When you rely on others you make yourself vulnerable to their demands. A Noble being able to irrigate his own fields wouldn't need the Arcanist. This is just one example how magic isn't the technology oppressor people think it is. So long as magic is in the hands of the few there will ALWAYS be those without magic looking for ways to obtain the benefits of magic without magic itself. There is only one thing that does this. Technology. Magic would stimulate technology growth not hinder it.

Nah, Second Era, after the fall of the Akaviri Potentate, during the Interregnum.

The bombs used by america in ww2 were the equivilant of dirty bombs potentially built by terrorists

the bombs the govt has now are "cleaner" meaning more payload with less risidual radiation being left behind to kill people later on

now if the bombs used by china in the fallout universe were cheaply made that means they could be less powerful with waaaaaaaaaay more radiation being allowed to sink into the ground and stick around far longer causing the dramatic mutations we see in post war america

Anyone without food or supplies who wants to survive is going to be a 'raider' even if they arent the official raiders. Its completely unrealistic to believe everyone just got along after the bombs. Any one of us is capqble of violence if we are starving and those who have the resources will be the target of those who dont. Do you honestly believe those who have no food will simply roll over and die?


There are an unrealistic number of raiders because the game would be lame if there was noone to fight. But we can expect that all people will be armed, violent, and holed up in a fortified location. There is noone around to protect their resources. Those who cant fight will die to those who can. Even if its less beneficial in the long run.


as mentioned, 200 years is a very short time frame. Historically we can look into various dark ages for similiar examples. People fought and killed each other for survival while living in the ruins of rome for centuries and the only thing they technically lost was a central government.



EDIT: I thought I should mention my family farm. My father takes pride in our independance from outside food sources, but this year his farm was hit by what we affectionately call the 'blight'. This black mold spread throughout our crop. Everything we grew is black inside and completely inedable. He believes that he will be unable to grow anything there for at least 2 years now.

I reminded him, if we truely depended on these crops we would simply die.


Thats a nice dose of reality. Disease, weather, tragity. We are not gods. Even those who do everything right can be completely wiped out in an instant. These post war people dont even have sanitation. That alone would garuntee thst diease would wipe out any group of survivers that grow too big. Add radiation to the mix and I stand firm that civilization in fallout is 'too advanced' for 200 years.

Houses have been and still are built without construction equipment. Hammer, saws and nails are all you really need. Clearing debris inside also doesn't require construction equipment.

Yes, I was replying pretty late and I forgot to finish my "unrealistic" sentence. Obviously it wouldn't be fun if there weren't enemies the point was that it was intentionally unrealistic. It makes the point though that the settlers were be more inclined to band together in the face of greater threats

And everyone arguing against the point has failed to address that it has happened twice already in the fallout universe (NCR and the Legion, although I suppose an argument can be made whether or not the legion is "civilized"

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200 years is both a very short time and a very long time. 200 years is more time than it took to get the USA from hand forged nails and the original minuteman to an industrial powerhouse and we're not even starting from that point. I'm building gas generators and machine equipment (water purifiers etc). The technology and know-how are already there. 200 years with that would be a long time.

Speaking of which. Where does the gas come from to run those generators? It seems most if not all vehicles were nuclear powered. There aren't many refineries in US and assuming nuclear power was common place that there would be a lot less refineries. Even if was left over, after 200 years it wouldn't be gas anymore even if it didn't evaporate. Something I was thinking about building them. I don't recall FO3 or NV having gas operated equipment. Maybe its flamer fuel, but then whats that? The generators clearly burn with a dark smoke so it seems it can't be alcohol.

So you can build banks, city halls, libraries, and schools for a decent sized civilization without construction equipment? Or repair the roads and remove the scrapped cars and other debris with just a little elbow grease?

The NCR succeeded due to various people in the NCR like the Followers of the Apocalypse relearning the knowledge of the past to help with their technological progress. The only groups in the Commonwealth like the NCR are the Minuteman which failed miserably until the protagonist came along and the Institute which are more interested in research than helping wastelanders.

I was not aware that the Fallout universe had working nanotech factories since that is what the Workshop is. Especially with the ability to move a Large Generator to the top of a tower. Just because the protagonist can create gas generators and water purifiers doesn't mean that everyone else can. Besides you can't compare the previous 200 years in our history to the previous 200 years in the Fallout universe. Our ancestors did not have to deal with Feral Ghouls, Deathclaws, radiation storms, or Super Mutants so they could go wherever they want and build whatever they want provided they have the know-how and resources. With Fallout, there is some Feral Ghouls or Super Mutants at the local water refinery. So it is better to just drink our irradiated water since the Brotherhood of Steel is only interested in scrounging for technology and keeping it for themselves. Instead of helping us out by clearing out the Feral Ghouls so we can fix the water refinery and get purified water. This type of situation prevents wastelanders from going out and scrounging for resources or doing some mining.

I would say the world of fallout is that of a nuclear wild west. Some places have law, others have disorder and chaos. Most people are out for themselves, while others try to band together. If you can't get a majority of people to work together, the world won't progress. As for why Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 are set so far off from the great war, it is because they are continually moving forward in time. They are taking cues from the first games, and progressing the timeline. If Bethesda set Fallout 3 just after the great war people, as in original fans, would have most likely thrown a [censored] fit.... Though that isn't to say they haven't/aren't still in the process of [censored] fitting and most likely have run out of depends diapers and are just sitting upon a bucket. Nothing Bethesda does will ever satisfy everyone, no amount of explanation will ever satisfy those out to make everything a big deal. This discussion has been played out time and time again.

For those saying that everything should be more built up, because technology, numbers and so on...
Do we know how long people have been trained well enough to construct and use advanced tech, post war? Was it re-learned? If so, how recently, and at what learning curve? Did they know all along, and if so was it hoarded, so those who wielded it had a leg up on everyone else? Did it emerge back onto the scene once Vaults started opening, and if so did they share any of their pre war knowledge and whith whom? What was the culture of the people that left vaults for any given area, and how did this go with the culture of people, creatures that were there when they came back into the world?
Even with that advanced tech, what hardships did they face what may have set them back?
How long has the population been as big as we see in game? Is some prosperity allowing for a boom, without really having the infrastructure to support it, causing it's own problems?

Areas grow at different rates, as the world is dynamic. Resources, people, conditions of the location, competition, geography, and how this is all processed through cultural and personal filters- these and much more contribute to how a region grows. Places that once flourished fall by the wayside as growth moves away from them. Disease and poverty can swiftly reduce numbers drastically. Things are lost and found again later- In our universe. Within The US, we have seen places boom and bust- even with a lifeline by way of the Federal Government and society at large being fairly well off. With all of our advances in technology and prosperity, places like Detroit are an absolute mess. Places I've lived have houses and economy that aren't that much different than those we see in the FO universe. Even as progressed as we are as a society.


No one can say any area should be more developed than the developer has made it. With a lack of any real info on what happened in the bulk of time between the great war, and when we find ourselves in the FO universe, there is nothing to say that it should be anymore developed than it is. You may not like that lack of information and want it to be more developed. I would like more backstory on the locations as to how settlements got set up, and what they went through, myself. But, at the end of the day there ins't any sound evidence that suggests that civilization should be farther along.

Actually, with TES. Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion all took place within the same 50 years. Skyrim takes place around 201ish years AFTER Oblivion.

So Bethesda did made the huge 200 years jump from Oblivion to Skyrim but all of the other games are really between 10-20 years apart, at most.

Magic and lack of non-magical war.

For example, if you really want a proper evolution to take place in technology, especially for guns and other stuff. Then you really need specific reasons to do so. In The Elder Scrolls universe, the reason why Technology was never really developed throughout the times because there was never a need to do so. Everybody has access to some sort of magic and magic was the go-to for a lot of problem fixes. The continent of Tamriel as a whole never had any war which had magic disabled or at least the people part of the war (as a whole) couldn't use magic... Magic was involved in all situations as the primary cause of the issue and primary resolution to fix the issue.

Magic was used to start the Oblivion Crisis, for example. Magic was needed to stop it. Tamriel's technology evolutions never happens because of magic.

Now, if you want an universe which does have technology evolutions AND is magical? There are a few worlds out there like that. I believe the Fable series does it (but not a huge Fable fan so can't say much). Actually, the only thing I am fan of which has both technology and magic is the Fallout Equestria universe, which is a fan-creation that turned the normal MLP universe into this new Fallout Equestria universe.

Basically, technology evolution happened because of a war between two superior species on the same planet. Both species has access to small amount of magic but only specifics and can't access magic as a whole, like in an universe like The Elder Scrolls. Thusly, they had to work on improving technology and with a combination of both technology evolution and the magic they can use, they ended up creating a rather intriguing universe as a whole.

Simply, in order for Tamriel to have an technology evolution... Magic has to be limited (not unlimited) but since magic is basically unlimited, then technology evolution will never happened.

Where is the official post from BSG that says that FNV is in fact cannon to the lore?

Cant seem to find a post from a Bethsada employee that says Fallout New Vegas is Lore in Todd Howards eyes...

So,,,

Whats that mean?

There isn't anything from Bethsada?

If there isn't that pretty much would mean that Legion and well the events of NCR in Fallout New Vegas never happened.

Would mean that the lore goes like this, Fo1, 2, 3, 4.

______________________

If I just judge based on what I have seen in the games produced by Bethsada its that............

The general population in these games cant manage without the player character.

They are not going to really work together to restore the land and such.

Considering the half life of a nuclear detonation from Plutonium 239 is 24000 years, I wouldn't worry too much about the math of 200 years. The fact is that under no circumstances could a world like Fallout 4 ever really exist. Radiation isn't going to turn lizards into Deathclaws, it will roast them alive from the inside out, it wont turn moles and rats into giant molerats. There will be no radroaches, no Giant Radscorpions.

In case of a nuclear war, there will be nothing but badly damage microbes for the next 25 to 30 thousand years. If the planet ever recovered, it would be long after there was any chance of anyone being around.

Nobody in shelters will be reclaiming the savage wastelands in event of a real nuclear war. There is a reason why Vault Tek doesn't exist in real life. There would be no point.

The Fallout universe is a enjoyable fantasy, don't worry too much about the time frame of what happens within it.